Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-10-2020, 11:56 PM   #121
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,329
Celebrity Australia is offering cruise cancellation on 48 hours notice for departures scheduled until July 31,2020. You can select another cruise, or have a "Future Cruise Credit" for cruise departures up to 31 December 2021. Not perfect, but not their fault either.

We bought airfares returning from our Pacific destination separately so we have to negotiate that ourselves. I`ve yet to check the airline stance.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline  
Old 03-11-2020, 09:33 AM   #122
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Celebrity Australia is offering cruise cancellation on 48 hours notice for departures scheduled until July 31,2020. You can select another cruise, or have a "Future Cruise Credit" for cruise departures up to 31 December 2021. Not perfect, but not their fault either.

We bought airfares returning from our Pacific destination separately so we have to negotiate that ourselves. I`ve yet to check the airline stance.
Not your fault either though and yet they choose to hold on to your money even though not providing the service. Then they hope the majority of customers with future cruise credits don't use them or they'll end up in the future having to operate cruises without much cash coming in. Or perhaps they'll limit the number of staterooms on a cruise which can be paid for by credits.

Now, if you cancel an order with most businesses they don't get to hold on to your money.
BandB is offline  
Old 03-11-2020, 11:15 AM   #123
TF Site Team
 
slowgoesit's Avatar
 
City: MX, thru Canal to Bahamas
Vessel Name: Muirgen
Vessel Model: 50' Beebe Passagemaker
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 3,400
My wife and I make metal sculptures. If a customer commissions a sculpture and pays in advance, but we can't complete a commission, whether it's our fault, or for instance, a supplier can't provide Cor-Ten Steel, or Stainless Steel, We certainly wouldn't feel justified in keeping the customers money, whether we say they can use it on a future commission or not. We didn't provide what we promised to, for whatever reason, so we shouldn't get compensation.
If a cruise line can't provide a SAFE environment, than I should be be able to cancel my cruise and get a full refund. Of course most cruise lines have copious policies, contract wording, etc, some of which they even disclose, that most customers agree to when they pay, so I guess it's buyer beware.
Maybe we should include verbiage in our contracts that says if we don't complete a commissions because we no longer feel like doing the work, than we can still keep the customer's money! It's a business model. It's probably legal if the customer agrees to it. But it's hardly ethical . . .
Perhaps they promise a "credit" on future cruises, because they figure they will go into bankruptcy protection, and won't have to honor those promises anyway. As stated above, it's a business model. And it's probably legal. But it's hardly ethical.
slowgoesit is offline  
Old 03-11-2020, 11:44 AM   #124
Guru
 
Woodland Hills's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: Alzero
Vessel Model: Hatteras 63' CPMY
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,548
The first (of many?) lawsuit was filed today by a couple who were on the ship off of San Francisco that is now docked in Oakland. Their claim is that the company should not have let them board knowing that the previous voyage had passengers or crew that had come down with COVID19. They further claim that they were not told of what the company knew and were thus unable to make an informed decision as to whether or not to board. They are asking for $1m.
Woodland Hills is offline  
Old 03-11-2020, 12:58 PM   #125
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 12,569
Stock Market TV News:

Cruise line industry contemplating no persons over 70 yrs old.
Art is offline  
Old 03-11-2020, 01:30 PM   #126
Guru
 
AlaskaProf's Avatar
 
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Vessel Name: boatless, ex: Seeadler
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
Stock Market TV News:

Cruise line industry contemplating no persons over 70 yrs old.
And Norwegian has directed marketing staff to advise that Caribean climate inhibits covid19.
AlaskaProf is offline  
Old 03-11-2020, 01:32 PM   #127
Guru
 
AlaskaProf's Avatar
 
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Vessel Name: boatless, ex: Seeadler
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
The first (of many?) lawsuit was filed today by a couple who were on the ship off of San Francisco that is now docked in Oakland. ... They are asking for $1m.
Speaking of thing which grow exponentially.
AlaskaProf is offline  
Old 03-11-2020, 01:44 PM   #128
TF Site Team
 
slowgoesit's Avatar
 
City: MX, thru Canal to Bahamas
Vessel Name: Muirgen
Vessel Model: 50' Beebe Passagemaker
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 3,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaProf View Post
And Norwegian has directed marketing staff to advise that Caribean climate inhibits covid19.

And they know this HOW?


Maybe if the passengers spend all their time outside on deck, away from other pax . . . but the environment in a cruise ship, in your cabin, in the dining rooms, etc, is probably air conditioned to about the same conditions in the Caribbean, to say between China and Hong Kong, or Hawaii and San Franscisco . . . . . Say, weren't those locations just in the news in conjunction with cruise ships recently?!?
slowgoesit is offline  
Old 03-11-2020, 02:00 PM   #129
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Reading the latest, I can only reach two conclusions:

1. The Cruise Industry just doesn't get it.

or

2. The Cruise Industry fully gets it, just doesn't care.

We've seen them with the Princess ships and one comes in with Covid 19 patients but they board it and sail again, with much of the same crew even. We've seen their no-refund policies. Now, no one over 70 perhaps. Do they not grasp that if 25% of those aboard get the virus, they'll give it to a lot of over 70 people when they get home? Then the Caribbean is safe. Really, or just not hit yet as very recently we've seen cases from throughout the area.

Worldwide we're seeing calls against gatherings of large numbers of people. You know, like the numbers on cruise ships. No gatherings of over 250 in some areas but thousands on cruise ships. Just as many of us have said no way we'd get on one at this time, they apparently refuse to admit that no one should be getting on them. Yes, the reality is a horrendous situation to have to face, but don't pretend it's all ok.
BandB is offline  
Old 03-11-2020, 02:24 PM   #130
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 12,569
Covid 19, for which humanity currently has no alternative rather than "duck and hide" has been deemed 10X [ten times] more deadly than the general flu. Extrapolate that number... if Covid 19 gets chance to run rampant, unchecked.

40K +/- annual flu deaths / 400K +/- Covid 19 deaths. That's if other sickness transmission factors remained even.
Art is offline  
Old 03-11-2020, 02:36 PM   #131
Guru
 
Woodland Hills's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: Alzero
Vessel Model: Hatteras 63' CPMY
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,548
In Italy they are so overwhelmed that there is a recommendation that a maximum age limit for respiratory support be instated. There aren’t enough ICU beds and respirators to go around and they are having to limit them to those with the best chance of survival.

This is what exponential growth looks like: for a long time you cannot see anything then in a matter of days it explodes overwhelming the hospitals. We are now in the can’t see anything stage and just a couple of weeks away from the exploding stage. Best estimates are that every 4 to 5 days the number of infected doubles. It’s been here since January as the tests in Washington state have shown so do the math.......

Starting with one case doubling every 5 days 18 cycles gives 524,288 cases in 90 days if left unchecked. Mid April will be 90 days. Over the next ten days it then goes to 2 million.
Woodland Hills is offline  
Old 03-11-2020, 03:41 PM   #132
TF Site Team
 
slowgoesit's Avatar
 
City: MX, thru Canal to Bahamas
Vessel Name: Muirgen
Vessel Model: 50' Beebe Passagemaker
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 3,400
This is hitting home for us personally. The Kentucky Arts Council out of an abundance of caution, just cancelled their annual Kentucky Crafted Market scheduled for this weekend. We have been doing this show since 2008, and it is one of our best shows of the year. They made a tough decision that is going to impact a lot of people, but we believe time will bear out that they made the right call.
We were all loaded up and ready to set up tomorrow. But now no where to go! For anyone who is interested, here is what a loaded horse trailer looks like! Also a captive butterfly! . . . colors on the butterfly aren't really representative of the actual color. . .

For what it's worth, and even knowing that we'll take a major financial hit form the cancellation, I think it's the right call, as are all the other cancellations going on. That's why I believe that continuing to have cruise ship departures is irresponsible at best, and potentially criminal at worst. Just my $3.87 worth ($0.02 adjusted for inflation).
Attached Thumbnails
KJTR8388.jpg   IMG_4127.jpg  
slowgoesit is offline  
Old 03-11-2020, 04:16 PM   #133
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowgoesit View Post
This is hitting home for us personally. The Kentucky Arts Council out of an abundance of caution, just cancelled their annual Kentucky Crafted Market scheduled for this weekend. We have been doing this show since 2008, and it is one of our best shows of the year. They made a tough decision that is going to impact a lot of people, but we believe time will bear out that they made the right call.
We were all loaded up and ready to set up tomorrow. But now no where to go! For anyone who is interested, here is what a loaded horse trailer looks like! Also a captive butterfly! . . . colors on the butterfly aren't really representative of the actual color. . .

For what it's worth, and even knowing that we'll take a major financial hit form the cancellation, I think it's the right call, as are all the other cancellations going on. That's why I believe that continuing to have cruise ship departures is irresponsible at best, and potentially criminal at worst. Just my $3.87 worth ($0.02 adjusted for inflation).
We're seeing similar everywhere. Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo is huge and they just shut down.

Each of these brings financial loss to various individuals involved and to the show promoters. I intend to watch an NBA game without fans tomorrow night just to see what it feels like. NCAA tournaments to be paid without fans. Golden State will lose over $4 million in revenue tomorrow night. Houston lost millions in shutting down the show.

As to cruise lines, irresponsible vs criminal, I go for depraved indifference as the crime.
BandB is offline  
Old 03-11-2020, 07:36 PM   #134
Guru
 
Jeff F's Avatar
 
City: Guelph
Vessel Name: Escapade
Vessel Model: 50` US Navy Utility trawler conversion
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post

As to cruise lines, irresponsible vs criminal, I go for depraved indifference as the crime.
That's pretty much where I fetch up. But there are many willing accomplices. Ports and host communities are entrenched in the business model. All decisions are consequential. It's a difficult situation.

I think there will be rapid developments in the story starting shortly
Jeff F is online now  
Old 03-12-2020, 09:12 AM   #135
Guru
 
Pete Meisinger's Avatar
 
City: Oconto, WI
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,145
When I made the original post I was certain the cruise industry would survive. Now I am not so sure. Princess cruise lines has suspended all operations on its 18 ships for two months. Most others are making drastic changes in their business plan.One, at least is even telling its employees to outright lie to sell passages.

Plain and simple, people are not cruising. It is the corona virus which may be pounding the death nail but personally I would never get on a cruise ship long before this latest crisis. Bad food, bad water, flu outbreaks, etc. convinced me long ago to stay away.

Any industry so heavily mortgaged is living close to the edge.

I'll say it again, "Good Riddance'

pete
Pete Meisinger is offline  
Old 03-12-2020, 09:25 AM   #136
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116 2008
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10,595
No one over 70? It took forever to satisfy the "You must be this tall to ride the ride." and over night, I am too old. SHRUG
One of those little known secrets of the big cruise liners, they have a morgue onboard.
There were a couple of suicides on subs. They just cleared out space in the fridge to store the body until the end of the patrol.
__________________
Two days out the hospital after a week in the hospital because of a significant heart attack.
OldDan1943 is offline  
Old 03-12-2020, 10:02 AM   #137
Guru
 
City: Satsuma FL
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDan1943 View Post
No one over 70?

Don't we have laws against age discrimination?
__________________
Buffalo Bluff Light 28
Donsan is offline  
Old 03-12-2020, 10:14 AM   #138
TF Site Team
 
slowgoesit's Avatar
 
City: MX, thru Canal to Bahamas
Vessel Name: Muirgen
Vessel Model: 50' Beebe Passagemaker
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 3,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsan View Post
Don't we have laws against age discrimination?

They wouldn't apply if the party could demonstrate a safety concern for a certain age. CDCP issuing a statement that over 60 are XXX % more liable to succumb to a desease would probably suffice. I'm not an attorney though. I had an honest job.
slowgoesit is offline  
Old 03-12-2020, 10:17 AM   #139
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116 2008
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10,595
They are foreign flagged.... Our laws may not apply unless law enforcement is invited onboard.
Guess you will have to take to the liberal 9th circuit court of appeal --- Calif
Failing that, take it to the UN.
Or one final option, just say, "Thank god, now I have a real reason not to spend my money on a cruise."
Hmmmm, maybe your wife and mother-in- want to go on a cruise. LOL
__________________
Two days out the hospital after a week in the hospital because of a significant heart attack.
OldDan1943 is offline  
Old 03-12-2020, 11:07 AM   #140
Guru
 
Jeff F's Avatar
 
City: Guelph
Vessel Name: Escapade
Vessel Model: 50` US Navy Utility trawler conversion
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
When I made the original post I was certain the cruise industry would survive. Now I am not so sure. Princess cruise lines has suspended all operations on its 18 ships for two months. Most others are making drastic changes in their business plan.One, at least is even telling its employees to outright lie to sell passages.

Plain and simple, people are not cruising. It is the corona virus which may be pounding the death nail but personally I would never get on a cruise ship long before this latest crisis. Bad food, bad water, flu outbreaks, etc. convinced me long ago to stay away.

Any industry so heavily mortgaged is living close to the edge.

I'll say it again, "Good Riddance'

pete
The ships will survive. And they'll inevitably sail again in some capacity. But it's not going back to what it was any time soon.
Jeff F is online now  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012