Can the Cruise Industry survive ?

[mvweebles]

My apartment in Ensenada is a 15-min walk to the cruise terminal. I'd say there are about 4-5 ships a week into Ensenada, probably 200 per year. Mostly Carnival and Princess, but have seen all the names - Disney, Celebrity, Royal Caribbean, NCL, even a smaller Oceanis last week. Nothing cooler than hearing Disney's ship's whistle 'when you wish upon a star...'

Cruise industry is alive and well in Ensenada.

Peter

[backinblue]

Originally Posted by Art

Disease-Transfer; i.e., Person to Person - Incubation = Crowded Areas: e.g., boats/ships, planes, malls, theaters, busses... That is the true picture. Wanna good chance of staying healthy??? - Stay away from confined areas with lots of peoples! That simple!

True Art, but doesn't really need to be "lots of people", hence my cruise experience. I think it was about 75 passengers and not tightly confined, but still enough for Covid to make the rounds in the course of a week. My point is, it doesn't need to be several thousand to put you at risk, or even several hundred.

[Art]

Originally Posted by backinblue

True Art, but doesn't really need to be "lots of people", hence my cruise experience. I think it was about 75 passengers and not tightly confined, but still enough for Covid to make the rounds in the course of a week. My point is, it doesn't need to be several thousand to put you at risk, or even several hundred.

75 people = The low end of "Lots" to me! LOL

[BruceK]

Originally Posted by backinblue

True Art, but doesn't really need to be "lots of people", hence my cruise experience. I think it was about 75 passengers and not tightly confined, but still enough for Covid to make the rounds in the course of a week. My point is, it doesn't need to be several thousand to put you at risk, or even several hundred.

75 out of how many pax? Considering fast easy Covid transmission,one passenger boarding with Covid despite easily thwarted test requirements, is enough. Our last cruise infected at least 800 of 3200 pax, plus an unstated number of crew.

[PhilPB]

We love cruising and wife just booked one for 2024. We went on Celebrity in November 2021. The covid protocols were great, only filled ship to 1/2 capacity, tested 24 hrs before trip. I'm a germaphobe and survived with lots of Purell. Just stayed out of elevators!

[backinblue]

Originally Posted by BruceK

75 out of how many pax? Considering fast easy Covid transmission,one passenger boarding with Covid despite easily thwarted test requirements, is enough. Our last cruise infected at least 800 of 3200 pax, plus an unstated number of crew.

75 was total # of passengers on board and about another 20 crew. 2 days in, 1 crew member tested positive and was removed from the boat. By the end of the cruise I don't know how many were infected. We were but didn't actually know it till we got home and tested.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by BruceK

75 out of how many pax? Considering fast easy Covid transmission,one passenger boarding with Covid despite easily thwarted test requirements, is enough. Our last cruise infected at least 800 of 3200 pax, plus an unstated number of crew.

We’ve only taken two cruises and we loved them, (even more than I thought I would). But, at some point the reality of being crammed in a can with that many people, knowing at least some of them are going to be carrying infectious diseases, has to be considered.

But, I can certainly understand someone deciding the risk was worth it, or not worth it. For myself and my wife, we’ll just cruise on our boat.

[BruceK]

Watching the cruise ship set horror/humor TV Series "Wreck",screening here at adult hours,for good reason. Not a wrecked boat, in the usual sense. A look behind the veneer, fictional of course.....

[Benthic2]

Originally Posted by BruceK

Watching the cruise ship set horror/humor TV Series "Wreck",screening here at adult hours,for good reason. Not a wrecked boat, in the usual sense. A look behind the veneer, fictional of course.....

I bet the reality is more surprising than the fiction. I worked on some ships for a few years and there were times when it was essentially "Animal House" afloat.

[BruceK]

Last night`s episode revealed that repeated disappearances of crew members come from the ship giving hunting rights to high end pax to hunt shoot and kill a crew member, using a crossbow and then a sword to "finish off".
I`m desperately hoping fiction is more surprising than reality.

[Benthic2]

Wow....ok....that seems pretty extreme. We used to just get drunk with the passengers...or other crew members.... and behave inappropriately with them.

[Hippocampus]

Even in the absence of Covid or the next unknown pandemic cruise ships are unhealthy for you, the environment, the locals in the ports of call, the crew, and anyone else trying to use nearby surroundings.
You-eat too much, drink too much, exposure to too many people.
Environment- burnt hydrocarbons, sewage, garbage, toxins released
Locals- take away income from local restaurants/bars, saddle locals with the debt it takes to build cruise ship capable piers and infrastructure with only cruise ship lines and upper echelon of 1%ers of the island benefiting.
Crew- living conditions maybe difficult.
Others using area- impact is so deleterious that unless situation demands cruisers avoid the island. Particularly when there’s cruise ships in.

There’s several ways to enjoy an island or destination. Bring your culture, micro environment and idiom with you. Be on a cruise ship. Maybe be on a tour or three. No meaningful contact or interaction with the locale or locals. Resorts are a bit better in at least locals are employed.

Find my kids and their friends have no interest in utilizing cruise ships with a few exceptions. Galapagos, northern Alaska, European rivers. But the mega cruise ships-no. Wonder what is the average age of folks booking on them. Can see it as an easy, low stress vacation for a family but also see increased social and environmental awareness in our descendants. If if the major threat to cruise ships is whether the demographic that books cruses will diminish to a point the economics no longer justify their existence.

[ssobol]

I always considered cruising on one of the major cruise lines (e.g. out of SEFL) to be comparable to spending a week in a crowded shopping mall. Actually, in Orlando there is a large shopping mall with fairly large hotel attached. If you stay there you can get the cruise ship experience (IMO) without the chance of seasickness. The chance of other sickness is probably about the same.

[heysteve]

Just shared the anchorage in Aqua Verde MX with an UnCruise boat. Must be less than 100 passengers. Looks like they arrange a nice horseback ride to the nearby petroglyphs so a kinda cool adventure. Too bad about the ridiculously loud generator.

I wonder if the smaller cruise ships will see an increase in business from the more risk adverse crowd. Not sure it's really any safer but there's always the perception of risk verses actual at play.

[ssobol]

Originally Posted by heysteve

Just shared the anchorage in Aqua Verde MX with an UnCruise boat. Must be less than 100 passengers. Looks like they arrange a nice horseback ride to the nearby petroglyphs so a kinda cool adventure. Too bad about the ridiculously loud generator.

I wonder if the smaller cruise ships will see an increase in business from the more risk adverse crowd. Not sure it's really any safer but there's always the perception of risk verses actual at play.

Perhaps, but if smaller ships with smaller passenger capacities only provide the same space as a mega cruise ship (i.e sq. ft/passenger), is it really any different re the chance of getting sick?

[rslifkin]

I would think smaller ships will do better for a variety of reasons. Less passengers on board means a reduced likelihood of starting out with one or more sick passengers, so it's an improvement even if illnesses can spread just as easily.

And a smaller ship mitigates many of the other impacts Hippocampus described, as well as being able to go to more interesting destinations that can't support a huge ship.

[Art]

Last year Linda and I were aboard a "big boat" [aka Cruise Ship - 980' +] from SF to Alaska ports...

Sure, it was intriguing cruising along the sea at 23.5 knots, not really feeling 6' to 12' waves' effects, in a floating city with multi restaurants, oodles of entertainment and other items. Ports visited were nice and tours were OK. Service aboard was mostly excellent. Ship capacity was in the 3.3K range; due to C-19 only about 2.7K were aboard. By end of cruise Linda contracted Covid-19 on last day and was sick as sht for many days after. I eventually caught it from her, but it had a lesser/shorter affect on me. Of the 4 others aboard in our group another also got Covid at cruise end. His wife contracted it from him. That makes 4 out of 6 of us that got sick from that cruise. Do the odds... they are not in cruise line passengers' favor

Then late fall we flew to FL Disney World to visit with family and two littles [10yr. G-Daughter / 8yr. G-Son]. That was a 7 day trip. Had great fun and visit - but - upon return home, Linda again had a hard hit of Covid-19 that this time turned into pneumonia. She was too sick... scared me/us this time. I did not contract it from her this time. - Again... we'd been in crowds.

Last week we took a semi private Lear Jet from SF CA area [Concord airport] to John Wayne airport [Orange County CA]. Parked our Lincoln SUV 500' to loading dock, no lines at airport, no X-ray... one question asked... "any hazarders materials or weapons"? - period, no prob with them immediately caring for luggage, that and we loaded directly onto plane, 30 passengers max - for the 1hr.10min. flight. [reminded us of yesteryear!] My son was less than 500' away in his Defender SUV when we stepped off. Luggage was handed to us. Return flight the same. With no crowds we did not experience any ill health.

Long and the short if it - We're not doing any big crowed conditions again... or else staying home!! That's the answer[s]... what's the question!!??

[KnotYet]

Skip ahead to the 2 minute point if you like where the subject turns to private jets:
(Apologies in advance if you are offended by the occasional four letter word.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63KXfwC9BdU

[AlaskaProf]

Originally Posted by Art

Last week we took a semi private Lear Jet f... 30 passengers max

Curious about this airplane. Biggest Lear I'm familiar with carries 9 (and I think one of them has to sit on the toilet) plus crew.


I do agree with your aversion to crowded spaces; I gave up big-ship cruises after dodging a norovirus in 2007.

[Insequent]

Originally Posted by Hippocampus

Even in the absence of Covid or the next unknown pandemic cruise ships are unhealthy for you, the environment, the locals in the ports of call, the crew, and anyone else trying to use nearby surroundings.
You-eat too much, drink too much, exposure to too many people.
Environment- burnt hydrocarbons, sewage, garbage, toxins released
Locals- take away income from local restaurants/bars, saddle locals with the debt it takes to build cruise ship capable piers and infrastructure with only cruise ship lines and upper echelon of 1%ers of the island benefiting.
Crew- living conditions maybe difficult.
Others using area- impact is so deleterious that unless situation demands cruisers avoid the island. Particularly when there’s cruise ships in.

There’s several ways to enjoy an island or destination. Bring your culture, micro environment and idiom with you. Be on a cruise ship. Maybe be on a tour or three. No meaningful contact or interaction with the locale or locals. Resorts are a bit better in at least locals are employed.

Find my kids and their friends have no interest in utilizing cruise ships with a few exceptions. Galapagos, northern Alaska, European rivers. But the mega cruise ships-no. Wonder what is the average age of folks booking on them. Can see it as an easy, low stress vacation for a family but also see increased social and environmental awareness in our descendants. If if the major threat to cruise ships is whether the demographic that books cruses will diminish to a point the economics no longer justify their existence.

You missed a couple of things: first they can and do catch fire from time to time
https://www.9news.com.au/national/cr...1-f4d9ea7c5ec3

Second, as I go past them on leaving the Port of Brisbane I notice they probably have 10-12 lifeboats each side. With 3000-5000 pax + crew that is not going to be enough if abandon ship is required!