Can the Cruise Industry survive ?

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I should have included the link below to my earlier response. It's probably the real thing that led me to make the "absolutely depressing" comment


https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/5434/


It comes close to making me think why bother going on a cruise...
 
I should have included the link below to my earlier response. It's probably the real thing that led me to make the "absolutely depressing" comment


https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/5434/


It comes close to making me think why bother going on a cruise...

I'd say they're pretty much shut down until probably next summer and could be longer. I'd hope even then they'd improve their health effort, but I doubt they'll do anything more than legally required at the time and place. I think ultimately people will forgive and forget and return to cruising. None of their previous issues have had long term impact. I wish the public would hold them to higher standards, but I don't expect it.
 
I'd say they're pretty much shut down until probably next summer and could be longer. I'd hope even then they'd improve their health effort, but I doubt they'll do anything more than legally required at the time and place. I think ultimately people will forgive and forget and return to cruising. None of their previous issues have had long term impact. I wish the public would hold them to higher standards, but I don't expect it.

I believe "general" means [planes, boats, trains, buses etc] of multi person, close proximity travel - for most reasons [business, pleasure, sports, armed services... etc] will expansively and expensively be long-term altered... to a meaningful extent.

These newly becoming accepted [and currently required in order to stay healthy/alive] procedures of constant social distancing, always resanitising solid surfaces, repeated new filters in air systems, often washing hands, wearing masks, not gathering in enclosed locations, no close person crowds, no handshaking... etc... will resoundly and lastingly alter many situations for humans.

As a preview cross section resulting from altered situations: Just Think - Reduced profits in many, many brick n' mortar businesses. Tens of thousand small business closures. Tens of thousands previously desired new small business not opening. Rental costs compared to mortgage costs of commercial real estate. Banks' need for commercial mortgage income that will no longer be available. Greatly reduced shopping mall visits and smaller mall size - and - fully closed malls. Enormous increase of web based shopping. Huge continued influx of newly enabled at home remote work. Many levels of change in schooling systems throughout the educational systems. Expedited AI robot developments and automated machine manufacturing. Self driving computerized commercial product vehicles [trucks/vans]; with material on/off loading accomplished by programed machines. Yes - Civilization's world is undergoing a change as never before experienced.

In effect: Not only will what's mentioned above, as well as many other things, experience forced major revamping in short order... but... also at the same time there needs to be a complete rebalancing of the $$$ "Books" to enable national and international economics to continue. How many tens of millions jobs will evaporate?? Can the 75% of U.S. economy [for decades accomplished by retail product sales] still be covered by consumerism/visitation/travel/play-time-fun of the general public - I think not.

And: What if this pandemic becomes even more ferocious with infections than is currently happening. What if Covid-19 morphs and the vaccine [that is hopefully being developed] suddenly no longer works? What if another deadly contagion virus emerges - because, you know there are bad people in the world who would love to have that happen. What if [because of humanity's new capability; i.e. need to self "seclude"] that humanity's "herd immunity" antibodies become so reduced that the average annual flues and other sicknesses/diseases could then reach pandemic proportions??

My deepest three hopes; as result from this global pandemic situation:

1. Developed nations can keep their own economies going as well as the world economy at least somewhat stable.

2. Better world affairs with improved living conditions evolve for impoverished nations.

3. War conflict is not an increment that comes into play as our world rebalances.

Aldouls Huxley's book "Brave New World" basically saw this coming... back in 1932.

Best luck to everyone! May the Games Begin!! :popcorn:
 
Where is Brave New World was any of this seen coming? Are you sure we are talking about the same book?

The book I read did talk about the government engineering individuals to fit into a planned society but I don't recall any mention of rational adaption to real health threats. Instead when John's mother Linda falls ill and is taken to the hospital she is gets drugs, Soma, so that she will die quietly and out of sight so as not to disturb the public order.

Wait maybe we don't have Soma yet but the part about government not caring about people who are getting sick does sound familiar?
 
So many things are are currently happening over which we have no control.
Tin foil hats, 3 for a dollar.
Color coordinated to your mask, extra. LOL
 
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Adk, if they keep a file on me, whomever reads it must be or will be very bored.
 
Greetings,
Mr. Adk. Yep, Mr. A must have read a different book. NO foretelling of anything. Simply a dystopian tale.


To paraphrase a Delta: A Soma a day keeps the baddies away...
 
I believe "general" means [planes, boats, trains, buses etc] of multi person, close proximity travel - for most reasons [business, pleasure, sports, armed services... etc] will expansively and expensively be long-term altered... to a meaningful extent.

These newly becoming accepted [and currently required in order to stay healthy/alive] procedures of constant social distancing, always resanitising solid surfaces, repeated new filters in air systems, often washing hands, wearing masks, not gathering in enclosed locations, no close person crowds, no handshaking... etc... will resoundly and lastingly alter many situations for humans.

As a preview cross section resulting from altered situations: Just Think - Reduced profits in many, many brick n' mortar businesses. Tens of thousand small business closures. Tens of thousands previously desired new small business not opening. Rental costs compared to mortgage costs of commercial real estate. Banks' need for commercial mortgage income that will no longer be available. Greatly reduced shopping mall visits and smaller mall size - and - fully closed malls. Enormous increase of web based shopping. Huge continued influx of newly enabled at home remote work. Many levels of change in schooling systems throughout the educational systems. Expedited AI robot developments and automated machine manufacturing. Self driving computerized commercial product vehicles [trucks/vans]; with material on/off loading accomplished by programed machines. Yes - Civilization's world is undergoing a change as never before experienced.

In effect: Not only will what's mentioned above, as well as many other things, experience forced major revamping in short order... but... also at the same time there needs to be a complete rebalancing of the $$$ "Books" to enable national and international economics to continue. How many tens of millions jobs will evaporate?? Can the 75% of U.S. economy [for decades accomplished by retail product sales] still be covered by consumerism/visitation/travel/play-time-fun of the general public - I think not.

And: What if this pandemic becomes even more ferocious with infections than is currently happening. What if Covid-19 morphs and the vaccine [that is hopefully being developed] suddenly no longer works? What if another deadly contagion virus emerges - because, you know there are bad people in the world who would love to have that happen. What if [because of humanity's new capability; i.e. need to self "seclude"] that humanity's "herd immunity" antibodies become so reduced that the average annual flues and other sicknesses/diseases could then reach pandemic proportions??

My deepest three hopes; as result from this global pandemic situation:

1. Developed nations can keep their own economies going as well as the world economy at least somewhat stable.

2. Better world affairs with improved living conditions evolve for impoverished nations.

3. War conflict is not an increment that comes into play as our world rebalances.

Aldouls Huxley's book "Brave New World" basically saw this coming... back in 1932.

Best luck to everyone! May the Games Begin!! :popcorn:

I agree with some of what you've written, but don't see any of it changing how cruise ships operate in the long term. They're able to dodge regulation and do what costs them the least.
 
Greetings,
Mr. A. Picky? Not at all. If you're going to quote or reference a source, accuracy is a good thing unless you're Laura Ingraham (just for an example).
 
Greetings,
Mr. A. Picky? Not at all. If you're going to quote or reference a source, accuracy is a good thing unless you're Laura Ingraham (just for an example).

Please notice I purposefully mentioned the term "basically"... a word with a broadly flexible meaning. I.e. in a basic analogy, - he saw big change coming.

"Aldouls Huxley's book "Brave New World basically saw this coming... back in 1932."
 
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Interesting article about a dead crew member and his family suing the cruise ship. Lots of cruise ships sitting in Manila Bay. I got an advertising email from Carnival today inviting me to book for a cruise, offering $50 off! Wow! How about a free coffin and funeral at sea?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-21/indonesian-family-sues-coronavirus-cruise-ship/12270682

Burial at sea does a bit of romance to it. Think of all the stories your relatives can makeup about you and the burial. LOL
 
Please notice I purposefully mentioned the term "basically"... a word with a broadly flexible meaning. I.e. in a basic analogy, - he saw big change coming.

"Aldouls Huxley's book "Brave New World basically saw this coming... back in 1932."

And then there was Jules Verne
 
gCaptain

Watch: Cruise Ship MS Monarch Arrives at Turkish Breakers


In what is a sure sign of the times amid the COVID-19 pandemic, the 1991-built MS Monarch has arrived at a Turkish shipbreaking yard for dismantling.

With cruises around the world suspended due to the pandemic, the former Royal Caribbean ship was sold for scrap along with the MS Sovereign and MS Horizon. All three were part of the fleet of Pullmantur Cruises, a Royal Caribbean subsidiary.

The MS Monarch was built in 1991 as Monarch of the Seas. It sailed up until earlier this year when the COVID-19 pandemic hit, halting cruises across the globe.
 
Happens a lot that people get very different things from the same source. If they even bother to read the source they claim to be spouting wisdom from.

For instance almost nobody has read the Wealth of Nations yet so many go around praising a supposedly free market system that is pretty much the opposite of what I take John Adams to have actually advocated. And that is nothing compared to the different things people get from reading the same religious texts.

Not sure what that says about human nature?
 
I have been trying to think of a book that reminds me of my take on people's response to this virus. I can't come up with anything. Can you?

Does bring to mind mark Twain's quote: “The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.” Maybe nothing like this was published because the current response is too bizarre to be credible?
 
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Happens a lot that people get very different things from the same source. If they even bother to read the source they claim to be spouting wisdom from.

For instance almost nobody has read the Wealth of Nations yet so many go around praising a supposedly free market system that is pretty much the opposite of what I take John Adams to have actually advocated. And that is nothing compared to the different things people get from reading the same religious texts.

Not sure what that says about human nature?

Chris

The answer is behind door #3! i.e. Group Insanity

When considering our human race as "one collective" living energy, with capacities to invent, reason, love and hate as well as to give and take [amongst many other important items due to the gift of intelligence] it is not until we admit to our human race's "collective insanity" that we can address its causes, alter its outcomes and create solutions to hold our human race's insanity in check.

If anyone wants to list insane actions of our human race... let's start with:

1. Wars that kill millions.

2. Then again we could look at economic pressures wherein one or more nations break the bank of other nations and fill the bank of their own.

3. Maybe centuries of slavery abusing one race by another race might ring the bell of defining "humanity's insanity."

4. Oh I know, I know - let's pollute our planet's natural resources [while being in full knowledge of doing so] to the point of global ecological collapse. That insane??? I would say Yes!!! Would you?

And, if that array of "human-insane" accomplishments don't enlighten realization for you that our human race is collectively insane... then how about these:

- Cigarettes that are proven to annually kill hundreds upon hundreds of thousands are still legal to manufacturer and sell.

- Opioids have become a huge killer... with their $100 + Billion sales propagated by a few very wealthy scheming manufacturers and tens of thousand money hungry health practitioners.

Talk about insane!!

Love of Money and Power... The largest two enablers for personal insanity and group insanity to thrive.

Please, think about this! Predatory, self centered, mercenary, greed-filled premise for a human mind, or groups of minds, to actually have the emotional shallowness to truly FALL IN LOVE with the lifeless items of Money and Power. Again, "please, think about this" - That Is Insane!

Yes, our human race is collectively insane. It is needed to cop to that fact so we can nationally and internationally take corrective actions... before Armageddon [or what ever nomenclature you may want to place on global collapse] overtakes our lives.
 
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see below
 

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While i carry no torch for the industry, and have taken my one cruise (10 days in Norway with the cast of Prairie Home Companion and 1200 public radio listeners), those four vessels look and feel "shippy," vice the floating amusement parks.

Farewell, Veendam.
We cruised from Rotterdam to the Arctic Circle,and back to Rotterdam, on "Rotterdam". Nice ship being sold off. The previous "Rotterdam" is on display for inspection in Rotterdam. Locals waved to the ship during the 3 hour transit to the open sea, as if they had an affection for it.
 
Two pix:
1) The SS Rotterdam as I passed it with my dad in NY harbor on his 44' Marine Trader in 1980

2) Fast forward - 39 years later. The SAME SS Rotterdam (now a hotel) as we passed it in Rotterdam on our way to the Mediterranean last year (2019).

3) I might upload a 3rd picture someday, if I ever find it again. It is of my grandmother, with a group of friends on the aft deck of this ship in ~1959/1960


A beautiful ship...from an era when ships still had nice lines.
 

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Two pix:
1) The SS Rotterdam as I passed it with my dad in NY harbor on his 44' Marine Trader in 1980

2) Fast forward - 39 years later. The SAME SS Rotterdam (now a hotel) as we passed it in Rotterdam on our way to the Mediterranean last year (2019).

3) I might upload a 3rd picture someday, if I ever find it again. It is of my grandmother, with a group of friends on the aft deck of this ship in ~1959/1960


A beautiful ship...from an era when ships still had nice lines.

You identified the difference between era's!
Stockholm and her sisters were ships, designed to carry passengers.
Ship owners had traditions of seamanship, safety and sea keeping of vessels as priorities.
Today owners and management is largely from hotel and entertainment business, operating floating motels.
Boats today have high centers of gravity and lots of pzazz...
Just how do you evacuate 4000 passengers in an emergency?
Covid-SARS and other outbreaks that have plagued cruise industry show its ugly underbelly.
 
Exactly.
Years ago passenger ships where the fastest (only) way to cross an ocean and were largely evaluated on speed and safety in crossing in uncertain conditions.

Currently passenger ships are a enclosed resorts that can be moved to optimize weather, construction costs, zoning laws, real estate taxes, labor and other costs while maximizing what they can charge customers.
 
... If they even bother to read
For instance almost nobody has read the Wealth of Nations ... what I take John Adams to have actually advocated.

Not sure what that says about human nature?

Remarkable coincidence! A guy named Adam Smith wrote a book with the same title! I did read that one.
 
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