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Hi Al,

Scientists, rather than the source you linked to, estimate herd immunity will be reached when 75% of a population has had Covid-19, not 15%.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/what-is-herd-immunity#2

As for masks, I was shocked to learn the new USA administration will be making masks mandatory on interstate travel, such as on airplanes. That's been the case in Canada since last spring.

California has a similar population to Canada and has had 2,962,979 cases while Canada has had 702,183...maybe there is something to be learned there?

Have you been reading international multiple decades old reputable news sources?
 
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Hi Al,

Went to the main page of the link you posted and the lead article was entitled, Oh look, leftists are harassing police again and started with this:

The left's phony support for cops didn't last very long as BLM and Antifa supporters resumed their endless war against the police on Saturday. The left-wing mob's tired chanting, "f*ck the police," was heard loud and clear as rioters clashed with officers in New York City...

That's their lead story today? No other big news happening right now?

With all due respect, and from a friend, step out of the echo chamber and get a balanced view!
 
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Actually, based on the attitude presented by Canadian posters, one (me specifically) would take the attitude the 'Canooks', dislike and disparage Americans traversing Canadian waters under any circumstance.

Isn’t that a hypocritical, or at least contradictory, all encompassing comment; “Canadian posters disparage Americans”?

It is not all “Americans traversing Canadian waters,” just the badly behaving ones. The ones with attitude or entitlement. The ones who expect us to acquiesce, bow and curtsy to royalty.

Just as FL tends to lump all Canadians into the same bucket based on the dislike for Quebecers, as Texans disparages Mexicans, Rocky Mountain folks show disdain for certain Europeans, some here tend to focus on Americans, if only because almost all who transit are American.

When “Americans” post pictures of poached crabs on social media, condone burning garbage on our beaches, generally mock "good neighbor policies" like generator use, break entry and passage rules and verbally abuse some of our local populations, the black eye can spread. But it’s nothing new; it’s been around since the 50s and 60s when the first >50 foot “Yankee yachts” started to appear, tossing garbage overboard and running lines across small bays; the marine equivalent of the modern border wall.

That “social decorum reflected by the smiles of commerce and industry suppling American travelers” may not be all it appears. Maybe it’s economics which brings that hospitality and like the small AK towns in October, when the last cruise ship sails, there is a sigh of relief and honest words are spoken, on the way to the bank. It’s what they say when you are gone that is lasting and it’s a human, not “Canook” thing. The thread about live aboard haters, is another example. One poster, ironically a Canadian, is pilloried for being honest.
 
Murray M-

As for the requirement for masks on all modes of interstate travel, that is largely a symbolic move by Biden to demonstrate that he is serious about tackling the virus. Masks have been required by all airlines for many months now, and the airlines strictly enforce the requirement. Of course, they are trying to salvage their business and realize that they need to engage in serious risk reduction to promote air travel. The new Executive Order requirement on this issue is more about drawing a contrast between Biden and his predecessor than anything else, and won’t have much practical consequence given currently existing corporate-imposed requirements.

As for the vastly disparate Covid rates in the US and Canada, there might be differences of opinion but I believe that history will show that ultimate responsibility for the US’s pathetic bungled response lays with Trump who realized early on that the virus posed a threat to his re-election chances and stupidly looked for some way to avoid any economic impact during an election year.

Again, there are differing opinions on the matter but here’s mine: the silver lining of Covid is that Trump is no longer president. If not for the virus, he almost certainly would have won re-election.
 
Murray M-

As for the requirement for masks on all modes of interstate travel, that is largely a symbolic move by Biden to demonstrate that he is serious about tackling the virus. Masks have been required by all airlines for many months now, and the airlines strictly enforce the requirement. Of course, they are trying to salvage their business and realize that they need to engage in serious risk reduction to promote air travel. The new Executive Order requirement on this issue is more about drawing a contrast between Biden and his predecessor than anything else, and won’t have much practical consequence given currently existing corporate-imposed requirements.

What is really perthitic is the airlines that are requiring masks are also those who pack in the flyers with ALL seats filled.
 
I agree that that is a little maddening.

I haven't kept us with all airlines' practices on this. I know that United and American are packing the planes.

On the other hand, Alaska and Southwest have been really great at limiting capacity and making sure that there are empty seats between non-related passengers. If I buy a First Class ticket on Alaska, I know that I'll have a row to myself. If I buy a Coach Class ticket, I know that no one will be sitting next to me.

I am only flying Alaska these days.
 
Soin2la -

This is an honest and friendly inquiry to you. Again, I'm really interested in any data that you have on the number of American cheaters who were caught in Canada. To the extent that those cheaters exist, I sincerely apologize to Canada and Canadians on their behalf. I believe that the Canadian government would be entirely justified in banning any cheaters from entering Canada ever again for the rest of their lives.

But I simply haven't seen any data that indicates that this is a significant problem. So again, do you have any actual data that you can share?

Thanks.
 
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Soin2la -

This is an honest and friendly inquiry to you. Again, I'm really interested in any data that you have on the number of American cheaters who were caught in Canada. To the extent that those cheaters exist, I sincerely apologize to Canada and Canadians on their behalf. I believe that the Canadian government would be entirely justified in banning any cheaters from entering Canada ever again for the rest of their lives.

But I simply haven't seen any data that indicates that this is a significant problem. So again, do you have any actual data that you can share?

Thanks.

Good point, but Soin2la is one of those individuals that like spreading non-facts to push his anti-American agenda.

I have a lot of true Canadian friends that don't think the way he does. They are wanting the boarder to re-open and for the economy to restart on both sides.
 
Hi Al,

Went to the main page of the link you posted and the lead article was entitled, Oh look, leftists are harassing police again and started with this:



That's their lead story today? No other big news happening right now?

With all due respect, and from a friend, step out of the echo chamber and get a balanced view!


:flowers:Best to the family Murray, to better times,:thumb:
 
Hi Al,
I know what I am about to post will not change your mind, but Covid is in fact far from the flu.
Stats show that the annual death rate in the US attributed to the flu is between 12,000 and 61,000. It varies by year and severity.

US deaths (in all services) in WWII are listed at 407,300.
US Covid related deaths will hit 407,000 sometime today as reported by Worldometer. The first reported US Covid death was March 9, 2020, so it has not even been 1 year (actually just over 10 months).
Factor in all of the credible reports and scientific studies done on "long Covid", it's overall health impacts on some patients, and the fact that many health care systems worldwide are at, near, or exceeding capacity, and I do not see how anyone can say that this is "just a flu" or just like flu!! As well, when did most of the main Governments worldwide "shutdown" their economies for regular flu?? These are the same Governments that usually can't see eye to eye on almost anything.

The numbers don't even compare in the same ballpark. Not even close.
Sorry, but the evidence is there.
 
Hi Al,
I know what I am about to post will not change your mind, but Covid is in fact far from the flu.
Stats show that the annual death rate in the US attributed to the flu is between 12,000 and 61,000. It varies by year and severity.

US deaths (in all services) in WWII are listed at 407,300.
US Covid related deaths will hit 407,000 sometime today as reported by Worldometer. The first reported US Covid death was March 9, 2020, so it has not even been 1 year (actually just over 10 months).
Factor in all of the credible reports and scientific studies done on "long Covid", it's overall health impacts on some patients, and the fact that many health care systems worldwide are at, near, or exceeding capacity, and I do not see how anyone can say that this is "just a flu" or just like flu!! As well, when did most of the main Governments worldwide "shutdown" their economies for regular flu?? These are the same Governments that usually can't see eye to eye on almost anything.

The numbers don't even compare in the same ballpark. Not even close.
Sorry, but the evidence is there.

There's always a 'fake news' counter argument.

What can't be denied are freezer trucks behind hospitals storing bodies because funeral homes can't keep up.

Where's the counter argument or explanation for
that?
 
Greetings,
Mr. MM. "Where's the counter argument or explanation for that? Photoshop.

Ahhh, of course...if there can be "alternative facts" why not alternative realities?!!?
 
Greetings,
Mr. MM. "Alternative realities" seem to work for some people.


iu
 
Hi Al,
I know what I am about to post will not change your mind, but Covid is in fact far from the flu.
Stats show that the annual death rate in the US attributed to the flu is between 12,000 and 61,000. It varies by year and severity.

US deaths (in all services) in WWII are listed at 407,300.
US Covid related deaths will hit 407,000 sometime today as reported by Worldometer. The first reported US Covid death was March 9, 2020, so it has not even been 1 year (actually just over 10 months).
Factor in all of the credible reports and scientific studies done on "long Covid", it's overall health impacts on some patients, and the fact that many health care systems worldwide are at, near, or exceeding capacity, and I do not see how anyone can say that this is "just a flu" or just like flu!! As well, when did most of the main Governments worldwide "shutdown" their economies for regular flu?? These are the same Governments that usually can't see eye to eye on almost anything.

The numbers don't even compare in the same ballpark. Not even close.Sorry, but the evidence is there.
407K is sad anyway you look at it, but put into perspective.
There was a peak in April with 36-41% of deaths were in excess of expected and another peak in December 26-31% were above expected deaths.
Preliminary US death statistics show over 3.1 million total deaths in 2020—at least 12% more deaths than in 2019.
So did Covid cause 12% more deaths?
 
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OPINION
Here’s how the media is misreporting COVID-19’s death toll in America
By Jay W. Richards, Douglas Axe and William BriggsOctober 17, 2020 | 12:36pm | Updated
Enlarge Image
As the coronavirus pandemic drags on, fewer people are dying and more people are recovering with few or no problems. But you won’t read this in the mainstream press.
As the coronavirus pandemic drags on, fewer people are dying and more people are recovering with few or no problems. But you won't read this in the mainstream press.


Los Angeles County, known for strict lockdowns, hits 1M COVID cases
On Sept. 22, CNN triumphantly announced that 200,000 people had died from COVID-19 in the United States.

CNN tried various ways of rubbing in the 200,000 figure. Their best effort was an infographic blaring, “US COVID-19 deaths are equal to having the 9/11 attacks every day for 66 days.”

Here’s a less biased, but less catchy, comparison: 2020’s attributed COVID-19 deaths were equivalent to having another 2017-2018 flu and pneumonia season boosted by 13 percent.

The CDC estimated that about 177,000 Americans died during the 2017-2018 flu season, from either the flu itself or by complications of pneumonia. (The CDC never made a public announcement about this number, but you can count it yourself from data on its site, as I did in the chart below.) That was a bad year, noted at the time, but mostly by medical professionals. Those with good memories will recall seeing more “Wash Your Hands” and “Cough Into Your Elbows” posters.

Still, nobody remembers a panic. Just as nobody remembers mask mandates or political leaders shutting down small businesses and locking the healthy in their homes. Because, of course, none of that happened. (This lack of panics during past pandemics is detailed in our book, “The Price of Panic: How the Tyranny of Experts Turned a Pandemic into a Catastrophe.”)

On the same day as CNN’s announcement, the CDC officially posted a total 187,072 deaths attributed in some way to COVID-19. Deaths were boosted to a hair under 300,000 after adding in pneumonia and flu.

This is the more important number, since it captures the disease burden better than CNN’s. Even so, it’s not clear how many deaths were caused by the coronavirus alone, how many died with but not simply from infection by the coronavirus, and how many died of other things but just happened to be infected around the time of death.


View this document on Scribd
The CDC itself caused a stir at the end of August by estimating that the virus directly caused only 6 percent, or now just over 11,000 of the 187,000 attributed deaths. Most of these deaths were in the elderly.

The remaining 94 percent died with and not exclusively of the coronavirus. These people also were on average elderly and had 2.6 other health problems. This implies a good fraction who succumbed had three or more comorbidities. In other words, most deaths attributed to the coronavirus were in very sick people.

Unfortunately, tests for the presence of the bug are prone to false positives. This is when the test says somebody has a current infection when they don’t. The test can mistake past infections as current, or even tag infections of other coronaviruses. The one causing COVID-19 is only one among many.

False positives are not normally a big concern. They are this year because of the huge number of tests given. According to The COVID Tracking Project, in September we averaged over 800,000 tests every single day. Over one million tests were conducted on several days.

Enlarge Image

Even a tiny false-positive rate at this level is a problem. Take the 1 percent false-positive rate, cited by some. If 5 percent of the public has the disease at one time, a million tests will produce 9,500 false “new cases.”

It might seem odd that testing numbers are going up even as attributed deaths drop. But this paradox is largely due to the fact that we do so much testing. Deaths re-peaked in late July as the virus spread in southern states for the first time. They have been dropping rapidly since. If the current rate of decline holds, attributed deaths will drop to a background level by the end of October.

Even calling positive tests “cases” overstates the problem. True cases are active illnesses that need treatment. But by now most people testing positive are asymptomatic or have only mild illness.

That’s the real lead in this story: Fewer people are dying and more people are recovering with few or no problems. So why does the press keep burying it?

William Briggs, Jay W. Richards, and Doug Axe are the authors of “The Price of Panic: How the Tyranny of Experts Turned a Pandemic into a Catastrophe.”
 
I wonder, if you were under the age of 60, were you more likely to die from the Flu in the 2019 - 2020 season or Covid in 2020?

Ted
 
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