Powercat Trawlers

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by rjtrane

Brian. Thanks for all the info you've listed. Really enlightening.

You're welcome.

BTW, you know that 'outside drive leg' could be replaced by a parallel shaft (over/under) arrangement inside the hull, and the subsequent prop shaft exiting the hull in a conventional fashion.

There's a good bit of info on 'silent chains' here
Ramsey Products | Silent Chain Fundamentals

Quite a number of years ago I had contact with another company that was experimenting with both Kevlar belt drives and silent chains for a government program, but they faded away and I lost contact. it was an interesting subject to develop something that would compete with the conventional stern drive.

[Parmenter]

Originally Posted by Maltese52

Cruises at 15knots and tops out at 18knots and gets "claimed 8 to 10 MPG" at cruise speed. It does so using the existing non modified sailing cat hulls and experiences no squatting up to 18 knots.

I notice that doesn't have much rocker in the stern and it does give hints of going flatish as well
But we are talking about cruising boats not day boats.

Swing a decent dinghy and outboard off the back on davits
Throw enough gear on board for a 6 mth cruise with 2 weeks autonomy
Report back.

I guarantee the results will be different.

[brian eiland]

Nice looking design
12.5m (41') Power Catamaran "Magic Bus" Launched in Thailand - Noah Thompson Design

"Magic Bus" power catamaran was custom designed for clients in Thailand. The multihull was built using Duflex kitset system supplied from ATL composites in Australia. The composite kitset was packed and shipped to the Latitude 8 boatbuilders in Thailand who then proceeded to build an outstanding quality vessel.

[healhustler]

Hmmm. Magic Bus is a different approach, for sure. Twin 315's and 26 knots is nothing to scoff at either. I was aboard a 30 minute fuel run of a PDQ 41 last year that obtained an honest 24 and touched 25 knots several times with twin 260 Yanmars in Biscayne Bay. This was at slack tide with virtually no wind, and less than 100 gallons of fuel aboard. After another 100 gallon fill, it still got 23 knots on the way back to Key Biscayne, albeit with a bit of squat.

[brian eiland]

Projects - VPLP Design

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by healhustler

.... I was aboard a 30 minute fuel run of a PDQ 41 last year that obtained an honest 24 and touched 25 knots several times with twin 260 Yanmars in Biscayne Bay. This was at slack tide with virtually no wind, and less than 100 gallons of fuel aboard. After another 100 gallon fill, it still got 23 knots on the way back to Key Biscayne, albeit with a bit of squat.

Those vessels were really nicely finished out, but what always turned me off about them was that VERY high freeboard look with its straight sheer line,....just not attractive in my book.

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

Here is a Passagemaker mag boat review (nice pics also of quality built interior):
http://www.journeycatamarans.com/wp-...JourneyCat.pdf

Some more photos of the Journey Cat
Journey 47 | New Boats | Yacht Finders Global: New Zealand's leading boat brokerage.

[brian eiland]

Over on this other subject thread, the subject of the Journey powercat came up, and I was trying to recall the origin of this design, and/or the 'photo vessel' that influenced the hull design.

Originally Posted by brian eiland

I'm trying to remember the exact circumstances as to the beginning of this project, but it was not Jet Tern, nor Selene that began it. I seem to recall it was several young brokers out on the west coast of the USA that felt a need for a product like this. They contacted that designer who had designed a 'photo catamaran' for that America's Cup involving the big cat and the big tri (over in Spain).

They put the whole project together, then subsequently found the Chinese builder. This all happened before the market crash of 2008 if I recall correctly. Then of course as most of us know the boat market went into recession as well, so I suspected they were going to have a very tough time selling their boats/idea in that atmosphere.

Here is the vessel design that had a big influence on that hull design, Water Wizard


Water Wizards Photo Gallery - Morrelli & Melvin | Multihull Design * Engineering * Brokerage

Turns out that 'photo vessel' was a Morrelli/Melvin design based on another's concept

Water-Wizards" / "Ocean Film Boat" is a specially designed craft to reduce the motion of ocean swell and provide a high-quality film and photo platform for the live or recorded [video] coverage of yacht racing. The craft, a concept of Stephen Shidler, was designed to offer the smoothest seaworthiness moving at speeds matching the action of high-performance yacht racing.

Ocean Film Boat Web Site

[brian eiland]

Some more videos of Water Wizard,...but still nothing in really rough water.

Videos | Ocean Film Boat = "Water-Wizards"


.....excuse me, not really that rough, but impressive none the less....32 knots in ocean waters off Newport Beach
http://vimeo.com/60878927

[brian eiland]

Just found this and thought I would also include some of the text in case it disappears in the future.

Every vision of a new boat has a definitive starting point. This is no exception.

In 2008 we were working with several clients that were all searching for a catamaran with good performance and classic aesthetics. Surprisingly we found that there was nothing in the marketplace that addressed these criteria. After much research and input from current and past customers a preliminary plan was written and presented to our clients and this led to a commitment from one client to build a boat.
Thus the Journey forth began.

Neil Riley, our in-house catamaran specialist, started searching the web for boats, designers, and builders. Slowly our boat started to take shape. Our experience told us there was no long-range production cruising catamarans on the market and the custom-built ones were extremely expensive. This is when we came across “Water Wizards” – a custom-designed and -built 50-foot catamaran with wave-piercing bows built to cruise in the ocean at 30 knots and film sailboat races. This design was not only sea-worthy and stable but extremely fuel-efficient – an eco-friendly platform. It was time to contact the designer.

We then met with Tim Kernan, NA, (company information is in the appendices). We had two major design criteria:

1. We wanted a long-range, very fuel-efficient cruising catamaran and
2. We did not want it to look like most other catamarans, boxy and square.

As you can see, we got just what we wanted. We then contracted Kernan Design to complete the boat drawings, so we would be able to present them to builders for the purpose of obtaining a quote for construction costs.

Since plans were being drawn, it was time to find a builder and conduct more research. We found numerous qualified and receptive builders in the US, as the boating market was in a depression. However, the cost for them to produce the boat would place her well above our targeted market price.

Hence, we turned overseas. Again, with a depressed, US boat market we figured we could find some eager builders and we did. We were preparing packages to send to builders in order to obtain quotes for the tooling and building costs when we had a stroke of good fortune. While contacting a model builder in Hong Kong to get a quote, we discovered his consulting service for Westerners in China.

He is William Baycroft of Yacht Consultants, Asia (particulars in appendix). As we discussed needs for a model to display at boat shows, we informed him of our project. He then offered his services, which we gladly accepted. Having a lifetime of experience building boats and many years doing so in China, he was the perfect person to help find a builder.
Neil made numerous trips to China to visit different builders with Mr. Baycroft. We finally settled on one: Jet Tern Marine, the builder of Selene Ocean Trawlers. Not only was the owner, Howard Chen, very enthusiastic about the project, he was sure he could sell a fair number of the 47-foot Journeys in China plus develop a larger version or two.

Backing up a bit, while all of the above was working, we started marketing the boat in January of 2010. We had done a lot of research as to where we should spend our marketing dollars and where to introduce the boat. We decided to go with PassageMaker magazine, as their reputation in the long-range trawler market was superb. They also sponsor numerous Trawler Fests and boat shows for only trawlers across the country. One other reason was that the builder of the 47-foot Maine Cat had invested his marketing dollars in the magazine and sold 6+ boats over a 6-month period.

Catamarans for Sale - Learn the 47 Long Range Catamaran Story

[FF]

- Morrelli & Melvin | Multihull Design

At least thy are using a fine firm of NA that has long multi hull experience , rather than the usual ,cousin Fong .

Weather a market exists for this product remains to be seen.

[brian eiland]

Long detailed subject thread on the building of the custom 45' B&B powercat

45' B&B powercat out of the shop. - The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum

Launching this spring

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by Maltese52

.... BTW, Shuttleworth actually used trim tabs to sort this out on his earlier 20+ knot powercats...

I hadn't seen that Shuttleworth day-charter cat, or at least I did not recall it.

Reminds me of that picnic/weekender cat I photo'ed in Thailand
Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Powercat Trawlers

[Nomad Willy]

Brian I hope they don't get much foot traffic down that finger float.

[brian eiland]

That finger float is just a small portion of this big Ocean Marine in Pattaya
Thailand. .

https://plus.google.com/106190747028...6/photos?hl=en



That big long pier going out the full length at the upper portion of this particulate photo is a very solid concrete structure that can support two vehicles side by side

[Parmenter]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

That finger float is just a small portion of this big Ocean Marine in Pattaya
Thailand. .

I rode down to OM a few months back for a look see and got to the car park and tried to ride down to the water for a look but the parking Nazi insisted I would have to park the bike several hundred meters away and then walk several hundred meters again down the marina.
Felt about 40 degrees in the middle of the day so spat the dummy and rode off again as cold Leo's beckoned.

[FF]

The hassle I see with cats is every mention of performance is how fast she goes , 20K, 25K, 30K .

Most cruisers want and purchase boats that are economical at LRC , not at Flank.

At LRC a std displacement boat usually will get better MPG , esp if loaded to cruise.

So why the interest in cats if nor for flank speed?

[hollywood8118]

Originally Posted by FF

The hassle I see with cats is every mention of performance is how fast she goes , 20K, 25K, 30K .

Most cruisers want and purchase boats that are economical at LRC , not at Flank.

At LRC a std displacement boat usually will get better MPG , esp if loaded to cruise.

So why the interest in cats if nor for flank speed?

because a lot of them can go 10+ kts at the same fuel burn as a smaller trawler at 7 kts without and stabilization and they are very livable. The downside is cost and moorage.

If given the choice I would rather go 10 than 7

HOLLYWOOD

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by Parmenter

I rode down to OM a few months back for a look see and got to the car park and tried to ride down to the water for a look but the parking Nazi insisted I would have to park the bike several hundred meters away and then walk several hundred meters again down the marina.
Felt about 40 degrees in the middle of the day so spat the dummy and rode off again as cold Leo's beckoned.

Yes they don't let too many people go down that dock with vehicles unless they really have a need to, such as an owner with lots of gear to take to his vessel.

I was somewhat recently trying to get a new contact address for the owner of that 'picnic/weekender' cat as I referred to it as he had had a second vessel built and I wanted to see how it differed from the first one? I had an email address for him at one time, but that must have changed as my more recent message never went thru.

I wrote the dockmasters office there for a correct contact, but in typical Thai fashion whoever answered my email began to try an act like a middleman in negations. I wrote him a second email telling him in no uncertain terms that I was NOT interested in chartering the vessel, just wanted to contact the owner. Now that I recall he never answered my second request, so I think I need to try again.

BTW, Parmenter if you get down there again, perhaps that second vessel is there at the marina, or you could ask for a contact email, phone??

You might also see one or two of those 40HK cats there,...at least there was one during one of my visits. I'm way up north in Khon Kaen, so I don't get down that way often.

[brian eiland]

I was going thru a few older emails from last year that were in my inbox when I must have been actively doing some else. I thought this one was rather complimentary of the 'species',....from a powercat forum

Originally Posted by Ian

A quick note. I think you need to look a little wider to see a greater acceptance of cruising power catamarans. I am getting a 80' power cat built, ETA August this year.

When I was researching builders it was obvious that the Australians/Kiwis know what they are doing. I do not have any stats but when you cruise there you see a significant number of power cats.

There are builders who focus specifically on power catamarans (Pachoud
< http://pachoud.co.nz/!@#?>?#@! is building ours). The debate between catamaran vs mono hull was finished there long ago and now it is a matter of choice; a power catamaran is just as seaworthy as a monohull (arguably mores), greater stability, gives greater fuel economy, has better accommodation, but is going to cost you more to build. Catamarans are more complicated to build and use more materials. I think the debate nowadays (at least in NZ and Aus) is simply one of economics.
Cheers,
Ian