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02-23-2017, 12:15 AM
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#141
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Guru
City: Adelaide
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,215
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Art - I don't think a sail conversion project would ever recover costs from fuel savings, unless you are circumnavigating.
In my eye, fuel savings are a very small advantage of a motorsailer. By far, stabilisation in rough water is the biggest plus to me. Other motorsailer advantages like "get home propulsion" and "something to tinker with" are also a big plus.
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02-23-2017, 12:22 AM
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#142
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Master and Commander
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,450
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When one approaches hull speed under power, a sail-assist rig will not add much. Works best when you're engine-powering below one-knot of hull speed. My one-knot-below hull speed RPM is 1800. If expecting any help from the sails, I apply only 1400-1600 RPM.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
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02-23-2017, 12:41 AM
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#143
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,223
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cardude`s boat resembles a motor sailer. I think it`s a great idea. Does the build include provision for supporting the mast on deck, or will there be a post extending to the keel? I fitted a compression post to a small sail boat when I was concerned about how well the deck was tolerating the load.
Can you get enough sail area so it can just be sailed? Maybe a spinnaker, that would be fun, even a "gennaker", a hybrid genoa/kite.
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BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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02-23-2017, 07:56 AM
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#144
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,093
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Convert trawler to motorsailer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK
cardude`s boat resembles a motor sailer. I think it`s a great idea. Does the build include provision for supporting the mast on deck, or will there be a post extending to the keel? I fitted a compression post to a small sail boat when I was concerned about how well the deck was tolerating the load.
Can you get enough sail area so it can just be sailed? Maybe a spinnaker, that would be fun, even a "gennaker", a hybrid genoa/kite.
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The sail version of this boat is keel stepped so that's what the rigger wants to do.
As far as getting enough sail on the boat so it sails without the engine, the sail plan with the 40' mast and just two sails won't be very speedy (maybe 3-4 knots if the sails produce 7-8 hp in 15 knots of wind) without the engine running at all, and like FF said the prop will cause some drag.
The spinnaker idea is interesting.
My engine makes about 8hp at about 1400rpm and burns about 1/2 gallon per hour doing that, so maybe a combo of 15 knots of wind and 1400rpm will get me about 6 knots. That's a 2400 mile range! I can make it to Hawaii now!
Can I run this little Yanmar at only 1400 rpm for long periods of time? I'm just kidding about Hawaii, but maybe I will cross the Gulf of Mexico one day.
For you sailors/riggers/mathematicians out there, what is the reduced stress on a rig with 700 sq ft of sail (the factory size rig) vs 377? Is it linear or logarithmic?
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02-23-2017, 08:55 AM
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#145
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TF Site Team
City: Paris,TN
Vessel Name: Slo-Poke
Vessel Model: Jorgensen custom 44
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,727
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cardude, I like the looks of the sailrig on your boat . It just looks right . Just think of all the extra shade you could hang off of those sticks when in the tropics . It would really increase your cooled off lounging area. Go for it man !
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Marty
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02-23-2017, 09:06 AM
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#146
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pack Mule
cardude, I like the looks of the sailrig on your boat . It just looks right . Just think of all the extra shade you could hang off of those sticks when in the tropics . It would really increase your cooled off lounging area. Go for it man !
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That was another reason for doing it, as crazy as that sounds. I'm constantly looking for places to hang my hammock. Lol.
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06-22-2017, 02:26 PM
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#147
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,093
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Convert trawler to motorsailer?
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06-23-2017, 05:25 AM
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#148
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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Sailboats get to go out in Blue water because of their construction.
Adding a mast to a motor boat does not change the vessels scantlings.
A parasail is easiest to rig , but simply slowing down to SL.9 will give low fuel burn,at no cost.
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06-23-2017, 06:50 AM
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#149
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TF Site Team
City: Paris,TN
Vessel Name: Slo-Poke
Vessel Model: Jorgensen custom 44
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,727
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Wow this is going to be interesting. Are you going with original sail plan that IP has for your boat ?
__________________
Marty
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06-23-2017, 07:06 AM
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#150
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,093
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Yes this is the sail plan the Island Packet folks drew up back when they were still Island Packet. Basically the same as the SP Cruiser, but with a little shorter mast and smaller sail plan due to a little less ballast in my boat, and because I wanted a low stress setup that would last quite awhile and be easy to single hand.
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06-23-2017, 07:10 AM
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#151
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,430
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I love it! Vertical stabilizers. You're trip to the Bahamas will be a great ride.
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06-23-2017, 07:14 AM
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#152
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,093
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Convert trawler to motorsailer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF
Sailboats get to go out in Blue water because of their construction.
Adding a mast to a motor boat does not change the vessels scantlings.
A parasail is easiest to rig , but simply slowing down to SL.9 will give low fuel burn,at no cost.
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True. I don't know how strong the scantlings were on the sail version of the boat, the SP Cruiser, which is what my boat is based on. I don't think the SP was ever considered a "blue water" boat by many when it first came out (big windows, small scuppers, etc). I remember IP did advertise that the boat had an "Ocean A" rating, for whatever that's worth. I'm not crossing an ocean, except for maybe to get to the Bahamas.
This project makes no monetary sense, and possibly no sense at all for most people. It's just something I've wanted to do for awhile and so I just decided to do it.
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06-23-2017, 07:32 AM
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#153
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M
I love it! Vertical stabilizers. You're trip to the Bahamas will be a great ride.
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Ha! Yes, vertical stabilizers. Now I just need to figure what all these ropes (lines  ) are for, and why they have all these funny names. 
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06-23-2017, 08:15 AM
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#154
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,022
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I think it is a great project and I'm going to enjoy watching it come together.
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06-23-2017, 11:09 AM
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#155
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Guru
City: Satsuma FL
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude01
This project makes no monetary sense, and possibly no sense at all for most people. It's just something I've wanted to do for awhile and so I just decided to do it.
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It is your money and your kids inheritance. You can spend it as unsensibly as you want! 
__________________
Buffalo Bluff Light 28
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06-23-2017, 01:57 PM
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#156
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,404
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Better to convert motorsailer to trawler.
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Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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06-23-2017, 03:16 PM
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#157
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Guru
City: Longboat Key, FL
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,157
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I can't think of a better platform for a motorsailor. 1. Decent ballast (and designed for it), 2. hull already engineered in a highly successful sailing version, 3. nicely matched powertrain proven in tens of thousands of hours as an assist engine or primary power in the SP Cruiser versions. 4. Mack Sails is the ultimate rig designer for the job. They know Island Packetts and how to take advantage of the strong points of the design for that application.
__________________
Larry
"When life gets hard, eat marshmallows”.
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06-23-2017, 03:25 PM
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#158
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Master and Commander
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,450
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Looks to me Bijou was designed as a motorsailer and not a trawler, but built without the sail rig to make it a trawler.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
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06-23-2017, 03:38 PM
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#159
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,093
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Convert trawler to motorsailer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce
Looks to me Bijou was designed as a motorsailer and not a trawler, but built without the sail rig to make it a trawler.
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You are correct.
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06-23-2017, 03:40 PM
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#160
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Guru
City: League City, TX
Vessel Name: Pelago
Vessel Model: Wellcraft 3300 Coastal
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healhustler
I can't think of a better platform for a motorsailor. 1. Decent ballast (and designed for it), 2. hull already engineered in a highly successful sailing version, 3. nicely matched powertrain proven in tens of thousands of hours as an assist engine or primary power in the SP Cruiser versions. 4. Mack Sails is the ultimate rig designer for the job. They know Island Packetts and how to take advantage of the strong points of the design for that application.
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 Absolutely!
__________________
Larry
M/V Pelago
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