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Old 02-21-2017, 06:41 PM   #121
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I agree w RTF ...
Perhaps you really want a sailboat.
But your boat bsaically is a sailboat .. I think.
I think your sail rig should be sized according to the percentage of time you'll be under sail. Close to most of the time would warrent full sail rig.

If I were to do this it would be the other way around. I would rarely use the sails (if at all) except as stabilizers.
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:32 AM   #122
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Convert trawler to motorsailer?

I was trying to size it to be a "sail assist" instead of a true motorsailer. So basically, I will still always be running the engine but have the sails up when I want a boost or stability. Almost exactly like Mark does with his Coot, but maybe with a little more boost from the sails due to more area and a more "slippery" hull?
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:39 AM   #123
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After a lengthy search as requested, but doubt it is of little help.



I particularly like this view. Sail power not enough to pull out dock cleats.

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Old 02-22-2017, 12:54 AM   #124
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Mark, what's that mast height?
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:01 AM   #125
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About 30 or 31 feet above the waterline. The mast is attached to a tabernacle, mounted on a one-inch-thick fiberglass roof adjacent to a steel bulkhead.
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:03 AM   #126
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Convert trawler to motorsailer?

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Cardude: If you're going to add a shorter mast and smaller sails, why not go all the way and install as close as you can to the full height mast and full sails? You'll have a larger group of potential buyers when you sell, a more efficient motor sailor and who knows, you might like sailing?

Larry,

Good question. Not sure I have a logical answer.

I was trying to size it to be a "sail assist" instead of a true motorsailer. So basically, I will still always be running the engine but have the sails up when I want a boost or stability. Almost exactly like Mark does with his Coot, but maybe with a little more boost from the sails due to more area and a more "slippery" hull?

Maybe I'm a little afraid of the stress of a full size rig? I was also thinking that a smaller rig would be easier to handle single handed?

Like I said, no logical answer.

And hey, when I want to sell I can advertise it as a "sail assisted" trawler. Not many of those around so it could bring a premium!
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:15 AM   #127
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...

If I were to do this it would be the other way around. I would rarely use the sails (if at all) except as stabilizers.
Just using the mainsail, although smaller than than the jib, is less work.



Both sails, together, are more efficient.

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Old 02-22-2017, 02:29 AM   #128
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Cardude,

My boat has a 200 square foot mainsail and 100 square foot jib. 300 sq ft total pushing 6 1/2 tons.

Your sail area per ton ratio would work out fairly similar with sail area you are considering. Perhaps its a bit less.
A rough rule of thumb is each 50 square feet of sail produce one horsepower in 15 knots of wind; so it would equate to another 7 1/2 horsepower.

With that much sail you are unlikely to run sails only unless you want a lazy quiet cruise at 3-4 knots. For stabilizing it is perfectly sized. Easy to handle in most conditions. It may still be worth to have one set of reefing points set up on it, as I think you have a fairly shallow keel like mine.

As far as motorsailing benefits, the gain in speed from the sails would depend on the speed under power. Normally I just reduce engine speed from 2000 to 1700 to maintain my normal cruising speed when I have the sails up.
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Old 02-22-2017, 05:55 AM   #129
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... Normally I just reduce engine speed from 2000 to 1700 to maintain my normal cruising speed when I have the sails up.
Just wondering...couldn't you maintain the same engine speed, get there sooner, and save pretty much the same amount of fuel...or is the physics not quite that simplistic?
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Old 02-22-2017, 06:52 AM   #130
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Would there be any advantage to building a ketch rig?
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Old 02-22-2017, 08:01 AM   #131
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Convert trawler to motorsailer?

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Would there be any advantage to building a ketch rig?

I can't answer that because I don't really understand the differences, but Just looking at my boat I don't know how one would mount the smaller mast. Things are in the way.
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Old 02-22-2017, 08:10 AM   #132
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Don't forget, that your boat was not built for having excess force above the deck. You might require considerable weight at the keel or in your case the bilge to keep the boat from healing excessively. Many 40 foot sailboats have keels ranging from 5000 to 8000 pounds. of course, their sails are much larger than anything you would ever put on a boat.

Just food for thought.

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Old 02-22-2017, 08:17 AM   #133
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Convert trawler to motorsailer?

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Don't forget, that your boat was not built for having excess force above the deck. You might require considerable weight at the keel or in your case the bilge to keep the boat from healing excessively. Many 40 foot sailboats have keels ranging from 5000 to 8000 pounds. of course, their sails are much larger than anything you would ever put on a boat.

Just food for thought.

Gordon

It actually does have 5000 lbs of ballast in the keel, just 500 lbs less than the fully rigged out SP Cruiser according to the engineers at Island Packet, back when they were a going concern.
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Old 02-22-2017, 09:54 AM   #134
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Not meaning to be out of line... but... Gee, if I were to want my power boat to actually become a full time sailing-ready boat... think I'd sell it and get a pilot house motor sailor... it would be already outfitted and equipped. Just sayen!
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Old 02-22-2017, 10:09 AM   #135
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Not meaning to be out of line... but... Gee, if I were to want my power boat to actually become a full time sailing-ready boat... think I'd sell it and get a pilot house motor sailor... it would be already outfitted and equipped. Just sayen!

Not out of line. I understand that wanting to add sails to a boat seems like a stupid idea to most here on TF, especially since many came from sail boats. I'm not trying to turn it into a full time sail boat, but more of a sail assisted power boat like some of the Aussies on TF have.

Thing is, I've looked at motorsailers for sale and can't find any in the same price range as my boat that aren't older and junky or that match the amenities I have on my boat. The really nice, newer motorsailers that I like are seriously expensive.

My boat is nice and fairly new and updated and I like it, but just want to fiddle with some sails.
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Old 02-22-2017, 04:26 PM   #136
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Not out of line. I understand that wanting to add sails to a boat seems like a stupid idea to most here on TF, especially since many came from sail boats. I'm not trying to turn it into a full time sail boat, but more of a sail assisted power boat like some of the Aussies on TF have.

Thing is, I've looked at motorsailers for sale and can't find any in the same price range as my boat that aren't older and junky or that match the amenities I have on my boat. The really nice, newer motorsailers that I like are seriously expensive.

My boat is nice and fairly new and updated and I like it, but just want to fiddle with some sails.
Don't fret, cd. At one time I was musing plans for adding mast and sail onto our Tollycraft. After thinking clearly on it I decided to not pursue that agenda too far....
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Old 02-22-2017, 07:41 PM   #137
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Don't fret, cd. At one time I was musing plans for adding mast and sail onto our Tollycraft. After thinking clearly on it I decided to not pursue that agenda too far....

Really! Have any drawings? That would have been an interesting project.
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Old 02-22-2017, 09:17 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by cardude01 View Post
Not out of line. I understand that wanting to add sails to a boat seems like a stupid idea to most here on TF, especially since many came from sail boats. I'm not trying to turn it into a full time sail boat, but more of a sail assisted power boat like some of the Aussies on TF have.

Thing is, I've looked at motorsailers for sale and can't find any in the same price range as my boat that aren't older and junky or that match the amenities I have on my boat. The really nice, newer motorsailers that I like are seriously expensive.

My boat is nice and fairly new and updated and I like it, but just want to fiddle with some sails.
I don't think it's a stupid idea at all. I do think you'd want to discuss this with a naval architect. Your boat was designed to carry sail, you just have to work out the details.
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:20 PM   #139
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Really! Have any drawings? That would have been an interesting project.
Years ago, Larry – avatar: healhustler – briefly discussed “sail things” with me for my boat. He may have photoshop on those thoughts?? I’ve no drawings… just what remains in my mind from thinking on it years previous. When I was beginning to think clearly on adding mast and sails as a limited propulsion source to our 21K lb. when loaded, 34’ tri cabin, twin screw, self-contained, low center of gravity, planning hull Tollycraft – fuel prices were nudging the $5 to $6 dollar per gallon. Since then, fuel costs have reduced so much that the sail add-on, for a boat such as mine, appears non-productive cost wise and use wise.

Following are old threads that have sail discussion. There are probably other threads that could be searched to find.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/why-we-have-trawler-not-sailboat-21392.html

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/2013-boat-options-8166.html

Best Luck!!

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Old 02-22-2017, 11:51 PM   #140
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Just wondering...couldn't you maintain the same engine speed, get there sooner, and save pretty much the same amount of fuel...or is the physics not quite that simplistic?
I could, but the gain in speed isn't much under these circumstances. At 2000 rpm I usually am at about 6 knots (about a knot under hull speed). The sails would only add about 0.1 or 0.2 knots in extra speed, but the reduction of 300 rpm gives me a 20% drop in fuel use and substantially less engine noise. That is usually my preferred option.
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