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Old 11-05-2022, 12:09 PM   #1061
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Originally Posted by Doug_Snider View Post
Jeff,

I look forward to seeing that. If you’re in the vicinity of Waterline Boats next week, drop by. We’re going down for the offloading on the 10th and we’ll be back down on the 14th for the graphics installation. We’re not sure of the commissioning schedule, but we’ll probably be spending a lot of time there for however long it takes.

Doug

Keep us posted on commissioning times. I will be cutting things a little close to the holidays, and anything I can learn about the process would be helpful.
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Old 11-08-2022, 04:21 PM   #1062
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final plans on ceramic

Hi everyone.

Jill and I are back from the Yukon and are catching up on the Trawler Forum to get ready for our vessel which should be arriving sometime in December.

In the meantime, we took possession of our new 10’ Bullfrog dingy with a 20 hp Tohatsu this past month and I’m looking forward to breaking her in. Later this week, we’ll go pick up our Stressless recliner that is being shipped from Norway which will match the craftsmanship of Helmsman. We think this chair will fit perfectly into the corner of the salon.

Catching up I have a few questions –

Ceramic –
I spent a lot of time researching this in May and sent out my notes. We’ve decided to continue down the path of having a professional do the hull, tops, bridge, stainless and windows with the remaining option of a clear coat (aka bra) in the areas of the fenders. I see a lot of people aiming for the DYI route. The concerns of DYI for me are my limited experience and the required dry haul-out to do the work.

I was down to two professional candidates:
Premier Custom Ceramic Coat (Everett) – 2 coat process
Nanoflow (Seattle) – 4 coat process

Doug – You are only a couple of days away from that big day! Congrats. I think you will be working with Kevin (Premier) on your Ceramic application?
If so, do you have it scheduled yet and where is he going to do it?

Larry and/or Rick – It sounds like you guys are leaning toward the DYI approach like Helmsman using Permanon. Has there been any thought of where you will have the vessel hauled out and undercover to keep it dry? I know the Pros require this with their applications, I would assume the same for Permanon.

Lastly, is anyone coating the stainless, windows, and/or putting “invisible bras” where the fenders will reside?

Thanks, Tom
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Old 11-08-2022, 04:52 PM   #1063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-Jill-Lilly View Post
Hi everyone.

Jill and I are back from the Yukon and are catching up on the Trawler Forum to get ready for our vessel which should be arriving sometime in December.

In the meantime, we took possession of our new 10’ Bullfrog dingy with a 20 hp Tohatsu this past month and I’m looking forward to breaking her in. Later this week, we’ll go pick up our Stressless recliner that is being shipped from Norway which will match the craftsmanship of Helmsman. We think this chair will fit perfectly into the corner of the salon.

Catching up I have a few questions –

Ceramic –
I spent a lot of time researching this in May and sent out my notes. We’ve decided to continue down the path of having a professional do the hull, tops, bridge, stainless and windows with the remaining option of a clear coat (aka bra) in the areas of the fenders. I see a lot of people aiming for the DYI route. The concerns of DYI for me are my limited experience and the required dry haul-out to do the work.

I was down to two professional candidates:
Premier Custom Ceramic Coat (Everett) – 2 coat process
Nanoflow (Seattle) – 4 coat process

Doug – You are only a couple of days away from that big day! Congrats. I think you will be working with Kevin (Premier) on your Ceramic application?
If so, do you have it scheduled yet and where is he going to do it?

Larry and/or Rick – It sounds like you guys are leaning toward the DYI approach like Helmsman using Permanon. Has there been any thought of where you will have the vessel hauled out and undercover to keep it dry? I know the Pros require this with their applications, I would assume the same for Permanon.

Lastly, is anyone coating the stainless, windows, and/or putting “invisible bras” where the fenders will reside?

Thanks, Tom
Hi Tom, Jill, Lilly! Exciting times indeed! So happy that your boat will be arriving soon! We live vicariously through your delivery adventures so please continue to share your here.

Larry and I have decided to use the Permanon. Over the summer we Tested/coated our entire brand new fiberglass RV, the lawn tractor, the big John Deere tractor and two vehicles. We were very pleased with ease of application and how well it has held up thus far. At this point, the dust and debris just hoses right off with ease. We also coated the glass and stainless on the cars with excellent results, so the plan is to do the same on a boat. We plan on giving it two coats as we did our other projects. As far as keeping it under cover, not necessary if you pick a cloudy, dry day.Our plan is to wash the entire boat with Dawn, start at the top and work down. We will be working in short windows of time and not complete the boat all at once. We may see if we can use a covered slip at our marina if one is available. Granted this application is not as heavy duty as what you are considering, but it allows us to keep things up as needed. We like the idea of the rash guard but also know this is something we can add later if needed.

You will love getting know your Bullfrog! The hard shells are so great! We bought a Whaly 310 and had the opportunity to use it/get to know it all summer long. Love how durable it is. We live 5 min. from the Point Williams boat launch and spent many hours tooling around Dungeness bay with our 9.9. We will be upgrading to a 15 horse at some point but we already had the 9.9 so will use it for awhile.

Best of luck to you and keep us posted!
Larry and Nancy
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Old 11-08-2022, 05:00 PM   #1064
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Originally Posted by Nancy n Larry View Post
Hi Tom, Jill, Lilly! Exciting times indeed! So happy that your boat will be arriving soon! We live vicariously through your delivery adventures so please continue to share your here.

Larry and I have decided to use the Permanon. Over the summer we Tested/coated our entire brand new fiberglass RV, the lawn tractor, the big John Deere tractor and two vehicles. We were very pleased with ease of application and how well it has held up thus far. At this point, the dust and debris just hoses right off with ease. We also coated the glass and stainless on the cars with excellent results, so the plan is to do the same on a boat. We plan on giving it two coats as we did our other projects. As far as keeping it under cover, not necessary if you pick a cloudy, dry day.Our plan is to wash the entire boat with Dawn, start at the top and work down. We will be working in short windows of time and not complete the boat all at once. We may see if we can use a covered slip at our marina if one is available. Granted this application is not as heavy duty as what you are considering, but it allows us to keep things up as needed. We like the idea of the rash guard but also know this is something we can add later if needed.

You will love getting know your Bullfrog! The hard shells are so great! We bought a Whaly 310 and had the opportunity to use it/get to know it all summer long. Love how durable it is. We live 5 min. from the Point Williams boat launch and spent many hours tooling around Dungeness bay with our 9.9. We will be upgrading to a 15 horse at some point but we already had the 9.9 so will use it for awhile.

Best of luck to you and keep us posted!
Larry and Nancy
What Larry and Nancy said. 😀 I am planning the same with the Permanon.
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Old 11-08-2022, 05:03 PM   #1065
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Larry and Zanuck, When I spoke with Permanon, they suggested that coating with richer mix of Permanon is better than applying two coats. You may want to give them a call prior to application. I will be speaking with them in early December and will ask them again.
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Old 11-08-2022, 07:21 PM   #1066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-Jill-Lilly View Post
Hi everyone.

Jill and I are back from the Yukon and are catching up on the Trawler Forum to get ready for our vessel which should be arriving sometime in December.

Doug – You are only a couple of days away from that big day! Congrats. I think you will be working with Kevin (Premier) on your Ceramic application?
If so, do you have it scheduled yet and where is he going to do it?
Welcome back. We’re getting very close. The ship will dock on Thursday and Scott plans to have the boat in the water Friday morning. We’ll be aboard Scott’s boat for the trip to Lake Union. Yours won’t be far behind.

We’re having Premier do the ceramic. Kevin works with a detailer we have used in La Conner and they will do it in his boathouse at the La Conner Marina. We had thought about doing it ourselves but we want to make sure the prep work gets done right.

We went with a Stressless for our salon chair. While we have been watching the ship make its way across the Pacific, we have been practicing our lounging skills in the Stressless.
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Old 11-08-2022, 08:03 PM   #1067
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Hang the kayaks.

Hi all thanks for the feedback on Ceramic. I was starting to figure out where and how.. Only if I had a nice big heated garage

I cant wait to get through the break in on the outboard, the bullfrog is a nice raise and I think this will turn into a jet ski once I get past the 20 hour break in schedule. I'll need the speed fix after going 7 knots all day

And as for the stressless, I think they named it that way, because it showed up 3 months ahead of schedule.

Next on the list is kayak storage.. on the 38.

Jeff (Hydrualicjump),

HI,
Do you have a picture of your Magma kayak rack and how you mounted it on your boat? We have two single and double Hobie kayaks that are a bit heavy. I don't think it's practical to take them all, and I was hoping for the double, and maybe the single. However, these are heavy kayaks.

Our hull 51 is getting solar panels so the yaks will need to be side mounted?

The double is 120 pounds. I’m not sure if we have to sell these and buy an inflatable double Hobie to store on board at 50 pounds – we do prefer to stick to Hobie since we prefer peddling over paddling. I'm not sure if the NicJackson crane will be in a position to help bring a kayak up to the side.

Thoughts, pics? I appreciate it.

Thanks, Tom
ps. like your boat name
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Old 11-08-2022, 10:07 PM   #1068
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dehumidifier

I saw some references to dehumidifiers. I don't like scrubbing mildew - not fun.

If your shopping for a small unit... here is what I am using and buying.

There was a reference that Scott suggested one, which I plan to buy for the "great room", solan which is a larger area. Just because Scott suggested it.

https://www.amazon.com/Ivation-13-Pi...2-8997e41410bb

This is the one we've used for both the seaport and camper. It's also a compact one that has worked along with a few Dri-Z-Airs just to double up.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Both have a way to dump water overboard. I might test both side by side and see who pulls more water out. I will put mine in the master bath.

Tom
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Old 11-09-2022, 09:47 AM   #1069
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Humidifier and kayak racks

Headed for the long drive north tomorrow to see grandkids and to try out the dogs for the first time on Off Leash. We have an energetic youngster and a mellow oldster. Hoping nothing gets chewed by the youth and enthusiasm of the doodle/husky/whatever mix. She looks like a thoroughly disheveled Senator from Vermont so we named her Bernice. Fingers crossed. CBD infused dog treats at the ready.

We will also get to see how our dehumidifier worked in the cold and wet these past few weeks. We got the Ivation that Scott recommended. It is a very nice, compact and quiet unit at a great price. Easy to store, too. We hate boat funk smells and are hoping this helps. Will report if any issues.

I will take some pictures of the Magma kayak racks when up there. They work perfectly for us and, given the sturdy 1 1/4” railing, can handle whatever size kayak you throw at them. We made a small bridle for the kayaks out of cam straps. We hoist them onto the deck, detach and drop them into the racks. Zero drama, which is all you ever want in a boat.

To maximize space in the flybridge we mounted the racks on the outside. Just a heads up, however, since this adds about 1’ of additional beam on each side. No problem at the dock since they are so high up, but landing the boat on a narrow dock with pilings can be dicey since the pilings want to scrape the kayaks off.

When we were facing some low tolerance docking a few months ago I just put the kayaks side by side on top of the Takacat, threw a strap on them, and folded the Magma racks back against the railing. Took minutes to set them back in the racks when underway.

Jeff
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Old 11-09-2022, 10:00 AM   #1070
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Agree, the Magmas work great for kayak transport. Paddling is one the main reasons I enjoy boating:

https://www.epickayaks.com/articles
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Old 11-09-2022, 10:39 AM   #1071
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Thanks Jeff. Look forward to your yak rack pics!
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Old 11-09-2022, 10:51 AM   #1072
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List, lists, and more lists

Owner Manual for the boat –
I read in pages back on a “checklist” referring to the Amyann “owners manual”.
I found it interesting in that, I have a long way to go to learn the 38E. So this is a great manual to start to read and think about applying it to our boat.
The link is here:
https://www.sanjuansailing.com/chart...ners_notes.pdf

Operational startup checklist –
Doug, I saw you had referenced an aviation checklist, MiraCheck Co-Pilot. I would like to create a “startup” checklist simply because we get complacent and rush to get going. So it’s good to get a structure around each morning’s cruise. The Miracheck looks interesting and I can only guess what the line items mean in the advertisement. It sounds like it is only apple based for voice feedback. If you or I create checklists I assume we could share those and upload them on our devices?
https://www.miracheck.com/

While it might be slightly more than we need, it’s a very interesting application. Here is a Youtube vid on demoing it.
https://youtu.be/FdXYoQU4dbU
Log Book – Maintenance
Helmsman (Nate) and all,

Looking for the best log book for record-keeping other than a written Journal.
Attending the Seattle boat shows a couple of years back a speaker offered a copy of a logbook that is excel based and date referenced. He still offers it today and encourages to use and modify to your own liking. The author manages a website showing his journeys around the world on his Nordhavn 52. MV Dirona
I like the spreadsheet in that it has conditional formatting to make you aware your past due to maintaining line items. This should be easy to modify for the 38 (less wing engine &#128522.
Take a look at this and in a few minutes, can you let us know if you have something interesting or better.
Here is the overview:
https://mvdirona.com/2018/11/updatin...intenance-log/

Here is the details of the workbook:
https://mvdirona.com/blog/content/bi...Machinery.xlsx
Let me know what ya think. Thanks, Tom
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Old 11-09-2022, 12:38 PM   #1073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-Jill-Lilly View Post
Owner Manual for the boat –
I read in pages back on a “checklist” referring to the Amyann “owners manual”.
I found it interesting in that, I have a long way to go to learn the 38E. So this is a great manual to start to read and think about applying it to our boat.
The link is here:
https://www.sanjuansailing.com/chart...ners_notes.pdf

Operational startup checklist – [INDENT]Doug, I saw you had referenced an aviation checklist, MiraCheck Co-Pilot. I would like to create a “startup” checklist simply because we get complacent and rush to get going. So it’s good to get a structure around each morning’s cruise. The Miracheck looks interesting and I can only guess what the line items mean in the advertisement. It sounds like it is only apple based for voice feedback. If you or I create checklists I assume we could share those and upload them on our devices?
https://www.miracheck.com/


Let me know what ya think. Thanks, Tom

Tom,

I have already created a number of checklists using MiraCheck. I used information in the “Amy Ann” manual and a similar document for “Kiskadee”. As we get familiar with the boat and progress through our training, I will be updating them. The app is pretty intuitive and the checklists can be used on a mobile device or printed in several layout formats. They can be exported for sharing with other uses of the app. I would be happy to share any checklists we create. I'll try to upload a PDF sample to TF.

I have also been playing with the Logbook Suite app. It’s very comprehensive and can automatically log NMEA data with the addition of a WiFi multiplexer that will plug into the back of our chart plotter. I’m always forgetting to log engine hours and the app will do it for me.

https://logbooksuite.de/en/

Our approach to carrying kayaks will be a little different. We have two Hobie pedal kayaks that we will carry on the boat deck with ties to the rails to keep them in place. Our dinghy will be carried on swim step davits. We will use the hoist for the kayaks, my mountain bike and Patti’s recumbent trike.

We have most of our boat shopping done but I'm still trying to find a rail mounted burgee mast for the bow that will fit on a 1 1/4" rail. Has anyone found a good option?
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Old 11-09-2022, 01:20 PM   #1074
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Sample MiraCheck Checklist

Here’s what we have for checklists, so far. It’s a work in progress and very preliminary. These are the hard copy output from the app. The user interface is very clean and simple. The audio prompts and replies may be useful.


_Alba Bella_ Helmsman 38E.pdf
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Old 11-09-2022, 01:46 PM   #1075
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⚠️DISCLAIMER: I am a FarSounder "shill". That said, I am also an engineer excited to be working on this tech so I thought I would chime in here. If I'm not supposed to be here just DM me and I'll bow out of the forum. I realize I'm responding to quite an old comment - but just now learning about this forum. ⚠️

Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
What they had claimed was 6' was actually 3'. The other time it was useful was a marina had moved their docks around. We showed an old concrete pile but now didn't know where it was. Found it and avoided it.
Wow, these are some interesting use cases to hear! I'm enjoying reading through this thread, thank you for sharing those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
The top forward scan is still Farsounder and they're used mainly commercially. Their top unit, the Argos 1000, has a range of over 1/2 nm at 25 knots.

The key is to recognize where and how they will work and in those situations you'll be very glad you have it.
Great summary - knowing how these system work, how to interpret the data, their limits, and how that relates to how you want to use them is essential.

I wanted to point out that FarSounder now has an Argos 350 unit - that is smaller and goes to a 350 meter range. Before launching this smaller unit, it was as you suggested: most of our customers were private super/mega yachts and commercial expeditionary vessels for our Argos 500 / 1000 models. That guided our development for sure, but now, accidentally launched at the start of the covid pandemic ��, we've been producing Argos 350s for more recreational vessels and some USV applications. It is still primarily a standalone system, and the system is typically bigger and more expensive than other FLS systems mentioned ITT, but with 3D field of view updated per ping, longer detection ranges, and now bathymetric data storage (re: anchorage use case).

I also want to add that for 3D detection range - so how far the systems are able to detect depth ahead of the vessel - Argos systems performance is an 8:1 water depth ratio. That is, Argos system detect to a range that is 8x the depth below the Transducer. However, other hazards are still detected to the full range of the model in 2D (so 350 meters with an Argos 350 for example) - they'll have range and bearing info, signal level info, but no depth information. That's just a distinction that I wanted to point out as it may be interesting to some in this thread. Not necessarily for the anchorage use case / mapping the bottom, but in the context of finding something like an old "misplaced" concrete pile for example - it could certainly be useful!
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Old 11-09-2022, 02:25 PM   #1076
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Originally Posted by Doug_Snider View Post
Here’s what we have for checklists, so far. It’s a work in progress and very preliminary. These are the hard copy output from the app. The user interface is very clean and simple. The audio prompts and replies may be useful.


Attachment 133558

Thanks for the checklist. I will add a few of these to mine.
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Old 11-09-2022, 02:36 PM   #1077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-Jill-Lilly View Post

<b>Log Book – Maintenance
Helmsman (Nate) and all,
</b>

Looking for the best log book for record-keeping other than a written Journal.
Attending the Seattle boat shows a couple of years back a speaker offered a copy of a logbook that is excel based and date referenced. He still offers it today and encourages to use and modify to your own liking. The author manages a website showing his journeys around the world on his Nordhavn 52. MV Dirona
I like the spreadsheet in that it has conditional formatting to make you aware your past due to maintaining line items. This should be easy to modify for the 38 (less wing engine &#128522.
Take a look at this and in a few minutes, can you let us know if you have something interesting or better.
Here is the overview:
https://mvdirona.com/2018/11/updatin...intenance-log/

Here is the details of the workbook:
https://mvdirona.com/blog/content/bi...Machinery.xlsx
Let me know what ya think. Thanks, Tom

I am tentatively planning to use the M/V dirona spreadsheet for maintenance items. I started to modify it a couple of weeks and ran into a lack of spreadsheet skills for the mods I want, so may default to building one without tables.

I plan to use a written daily logbook. Maintenance will be recorded there first, and then monthly will be put in the spreadsheet. I will scan invoices into the excel maintenance worksheet, also. I am also thinking about Nebo, which will track your trips, hours and miles. It also will show you where other Nebo users are, if that is your thing. (I probably won't use that feature.) Here is a link to their website. https://nebo.global/
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Old 11-10-2022, 01:38 AM   #1078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug_Snider View Post
Here’s what we have for checklists, so far. It’s a work in progress and very preliminary. These are the hard copy output from the app. The user interface is very clean and simple. The audio prompts and replies may be useful.


Attachment 133558
This is excellent Doug!
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Old 11-10-2022, 07:09 AM   #1079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarSounderHeath View Post
⚠️DISCLAIMER: I am a FarSounder "shill". That said, I am also an engineer excited to be working on this tech so I thought I would chime in here. If I'm not supposed to be here just DM me and I'll bow out of the forum. I realize I'm responding to quite an old comment - but just now learning about this forum. ⚠️



Wow, these are some interesting use cases to hear! I'm enjoying reading through this thread, thank you for sharing those.



Great summary - knowing how these system work, how to interpret the data, their limits, and how that relates to how you want to use them is essential.

I wanted to point out that FarSounder now has an Argos 350 unit - that is smaller and goes to a 350 meter range. Before launching this smaller unit, it was as you suggested: most of our customers were private super/mega yachts and commercial expeditionary vessels for our Argos 500 / 1000 models. That guided our development for sure, but now, accidentally launched at the start of the covid pandemic ��, we've been producing Argos 350s for more recreational vessels and some USV applications. It is still primarily a standalone system, and the system is typically bigger and more expensive than other FLS systems mentioned ITT, but with 3D field of view updated per ping, longer detection ranges, and now bathymetric data storage (re: anchorage use case).

I also want to add that for 3D detection range - so how far the systems are able to detect depth ahead of the vessel - Argos systems performance is an 8:1 water depth ratio. That is, Argos system detect to a range that is 8x the depth below the Transducer. However, other hazards are still detected to the full range of the model in 2D (so 350 meters with an Argos 350 for example) - they'll have range and bearing info, signal level info, but no depth information. That's just a distinction that I wanted to point out as it may be interesting to some in this thread. Not necessarily for the anchorage use case / mapping the bottom, but in the context of finding something like an old "misplaced" concrete pile for example - it could certainly be useful!
Interesting product and better protected that those which just “hang down”. What is the cost of the product? Is it connected via NMEA2000, 0183, or OneNet? Thank you.
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Old 11-10-2022, 10:21 AM   #1080
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Starlink attachement

I saw some discussion on placing a starlink antenna via scotty rod holder.. Any thoughts (aside from $$) about using a dome (Intellian) for the antenna, has anyone heard of this idea if it works? Feasible or not?
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