Another new start for Helmsman

[FWT]

Those.
Pics
Look
GREAT

You guys are killing me.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by BandB

You have plenty of things in most kitchens that are seldom used and easy to use small ladders. Now, I admit my height simplifies things.

Our kitchen has 10 foot ceilings. Our cabinets go almost to the top. We store serving dishes, seldom used pots and pans, etc. up there. It is a handy use of space.

[FWT]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Thanks. Looking forward to the pics.



So, it sounds like you are replacing/adding the anchor after the boat is delivered? Probably what I will do, so I have a spare on hand that could also be used in narrow anchorages as a stern anchor. A little heavy for that, but if the weather is rough, would be glad to have it.

Not getting an anchor from Helmsman. Just chain.

I'll have the anchor pre-ordered and on hand to be installed with commissioning or myself immediately after.

[FWT]

Last item is the swivel. Folks seem to swear by the Mantus swivel, though it looks mighty complicated to me. Any other thoughts from anyone?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by FWT

Last item is the swivel. Folks seem to swear by the Mantus swivel, though it looks mighty complicated to me. Any other thoughts from anyone?

Personally, I'd try it without a swivel and only add one if you have trouble getting the anchor to orient nicely on retrieval. No reason to add the extra cost and extra potential failure point until you know if you need one or not.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by FWT

Last item is the swivel. Folks seem to swear by the Mantus swivel, though it looks mighty complicated to me. Any other thoughts from anyone?

I have done some light research on swivels. Quite a good discussion on the Mantus swivel on the AGLCA pay forum. There are a couple of guys on that site who are surveyors and cruisers who swear by them. They are pricey, but are supposed to be pretty bullet proof. The issue for swivels is their ability to handle side loading, which is where a lot of them fail. Doesn't appear to be an issue for the Mantus per some of the experts on that site. Since they recommend it, it is what I will go with when I replace the Bruce if needed.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Personally, I'd try it without a swivel and only add one if you have trouble getting the anchor to orient nicely on retrieval. No reason to add the extra cost and extra potential failure point until you know if you need one or not.

Hmm, makes sense, RS. Something else to consider.

[FWT]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

I have done some light research on swivels. Quite a good discussion on the Mantus swivel on the AGLCA pay forum. There are a couple of guys on that site who are surveyors and cruisers who swear by them. They are pricey, but are supposed to be pretty bullet proof. The issue for swivels is their ability to handle side loading, which is where a lot of them fail. Doesn't appear to be an issue for the Mantus per some of the experts on that site. Since they recommend it, it is what I will go with when I replace the Bruce.

Yep. No side loading since they attach to the anchor via an included shackle.

The Ultra swivel is in some ways better, but fails the big problem of side loading. Its not hard to find stories and pics of those prying apart from side loading.

[rslifkin]

As a note on anchor retrieval with a Vulcan, I've found mine will self-orient just fine as long as it comes up something other than completely backwards. My roller setup is different than an H38 though. If it comes up sideways, it snaps upright as soon as it touches the roller. If it comes up perfectly backwards, it'll just hit the roller and stop. But a quick poke with a boat hook to get it to spin a little before it hits the roller does the trick.



In my case, I've got a mixed rode, so the issue is related to the chain getting re-loaded into the windlass in a random orientation any time I've gone past the chain part of the rode. So it may come up sideways one time, but straight the next time. If you've got all chain, the orientation in the windlass shouldn't change, so the anchor should spin back to the correct orientation every time on retrieval.

[FWT]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Personally, I'd try it without a swivel and only add one if you have trouble getting the anchor to orient nicely on retrieval. No reason to add the extra cost and extra potential failure point until you know if you need one or not.

Good point, but with nothing more to go on YET than videos and reviews, the Vulcan shape creates a somewhat violent shift when it comes up backward and then swings to right itself. I fully expect to want and need one.

[FWT]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

As a note on anchor retrieval with a Vulcan, I've found mine will self-orient just fine as long as it comes up something other than completely backwards. My roller setup is different than an H38 though. If it comes up sideways, it snaps upright as soon as it touches the roller. If it comes up perfectly backwards, it'll just hit the roller and stop. But a quick poke with a boat hook to get it to spin a little before it hits the roller does the trick.



In my case, I've got a mixed rode, so the issue is related to the chain getting re-loaded into the windlass in a random orientation any time I've gone past the chain part of the rode. So it may come up sideways one time, but straight the next time. If you've got all chain, the orientation in the windlass shouldn't change, so the anchor should spin back to the correct orientation every time on retrieval.

All chain, so that's a really interesting observation. Many thanks

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by FWT

Good point, but with nothing more to go on YET than videos and reviews, the Vulcan shape creates a somewhat violent shift when it comes up backward and then swings to right itself. I fully expect to want and need one.

The self righting is definitely violent with the Vulcan from some positions. I've gotten in the habit of stopping the windlass right as the shank starts to hit the roller, letting it flip upright, then pulling it the last bit in. That generally makes it a bit less violent and saves it from banging around within the roller in the process.

[backinblue]

Originally Posted by BandB

You have plenty of things in most kitchens that are seldom used and easy to use small ladders. Now, I admit my height simplifies things.

More storage space just means you accumulate more stuff to fill it! Anything that I would need to get a ladder to retrieve is better off in my basment or attic. I'm 6' but would not be able to reach above my cabinets w/o a small ladder of some sort.

[FWT]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

The self righting is definitely violent with the Vulcan from some positions. I've gotten in the habit of stopping the windlass right as the shank starts to hit the roller, letting it flip upright, then pulling it the last bit in. That generally makes it a bit less violent and saves it from banging around within the roller in the process.

Does it snug up tightly on your roller, or move around a bit?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by FWT

Does it snug up tightly on your roller, or move around a bit?

Mine is on a through-pulpit roller. I had to cut a piece of metal out of the roller assembly and notch the pulpit itself to get the shank to fit nicely and pull far enough into the roller, but once I did that, it's a very snug fit. It snugs right up into the notch with no fussing and sits tightly against it with almost no movement.

[FWT]

Thanks for that. Good news

And nice looking pulpit too.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Mine is on a through-pulpit roller. I had to cut a piece of metal out of the roller assembly and notch the pulpit itself to get the shank to fit nicely and pull far enough into the roller, but once I did that, it's a very snug fit. It snugs right up into the notch with no fussing and sits tightly against it with almost no movement.

That is a nice setup. I will wait on Rick and Nancy or FWT to try it and report back!

[Barrie]

Hi Helmsman: here are a few pictures of your two Biminis. Sorry no close ups.

[Helmsman]

I like the idea of seats back there. A lot of outdoor room when that area isn’t used for a dinghy.

[Two Truths]

We have used a Vulcan 25kg on our H38E with a Mantus Swivel for one season now. (The boat came with a Mantus M1 65lb, purchased by the previous owners, but I swapped it out for the Vulcan--see the separate thread: Bad fitting anchor on Helmsman). I don't know if the swivel is doing much or not, but it came with the boat so we kept it. We also have the original 20kg Bruce that we keep as a backup. So far the setup works just fine, and the anchor has always come up oriented correctly. The only time we had trouble setting was in thick grass that I suspect would have challenged any anchor.