Another new start for Helmsman

[Helmsman]

Thanks. I will look at it some more.

 

[Helmsman]

A couple of Pictures

Here are a couple of pictures of our boat under construction. The color of the hull shows up pretty well which is Kingston gray.The exceptional wood work is starting to "come into focus" in the second picture of the salon.

The salon picture shows the generous amount of storage, with shelves and cabinets built into smaller areas that you might not see in other boats. One example is the cabinet above the day head door.

One of the few annoyances of our previous boat was the lack of storage space in areas where I knew there was a void. Helmsman has done a nice job of tastefully fitting areas out that you wouldn't normally see on many boats. A likely reason is the cost to build these out.

The cabinets to the left of the day head will be used for guests when they stay over on the boat. That will allow for folded clothes to be placed in there.

Just another example of the thought and quality that goes into these boats.

 

[Helmsman]

For what its worth, I am now heading toward a Vulcan. It was toward an Ultra. I didn't think I could make a Vulcan fit well. Scott showed me otherwise. Substantial difference in cost, and the Vulcan tests better in the kind of bottom I expect. It will take the most minor bit of roller surgery. There is a bale bar across the front, that is too low for a Vulcan. I'll replace it with a hoop style bale. From what I see the cost is about $30 and its a 15 min project at most.

FWT, can you explain the Bale bar a bit further? Is that something on the boat, or on the anchor. Might be obvious, but not sure what you mean. Thanks! Nate

 

[BandB]

One of the few annoyances of our previous boat was the lack of storage space in areas where I knew there was a void. Helmsman has done a nice job of tastefully fitting areas out that you wouldn't normally see on many boats. A likely reason is the cost to build these out.

The cabinets to the left of the day head will be used for guests when they stay over on the boat. That will allow for folded clothes to be placed in there.

Just another example of the thought and quality that goes into these boats.

Space is important but good space utilization such as you're describing is so critical. Some houses still don't use to top area over kitchen cabinets and it always annoys me. I remember offices built with rows of file cabinets but they only went up 5 or 6'. That, of course, was in the days of file cabinets. Something else made obsolete by technology as we have fewer cabinets per 100 people today than per person years ago.

On a boat, there should be no usable space not used.

 

[Helmsman]

Any pictures to share?

Hey Barrie,



Posted a couple. If you have a picture or two of the flybridge on your Helmsman, I would like to see it. It looks like you have a second bimini in the back area. Would be nice to see how you have it set up back there. I am not putting a davit system up top, so would be nice to see the lay out for your boat.



Thanks!

 

[backinblue]

Space is important but good space utilization such as you're describing is so critical. Some houses still don't use to top area over kitchen cabinets and it always annoys me. I remember offices built with rows of file cabinets but they only went up 5 or 6'. That, of course, was in the days of file cabinets. Something else made obsolete by technology as we have fewer cabinets per 100 people today than per person years ago.

On a boat, there should be no usable space not used.

I agree about space on a boat but not sure I get your point about kitchen cabinets. Yes I have unsued space over mine, but I wouldn't be able to reach it anyway. Not sure what I would store there?

 

[Helmsman]

Here are some photos of “Alba Bella”, hull number 50. We’re about a month behind Helmsman’s hull 49. Still no engine and no firm estimate on completion.

/QUOTE]
Doug,

I really like that picture from the bow of your boat. I have said so before, but really like your hull color. When assessing boats we made a trip to American Tug in your home town. We saw a color similar to yours on one of their boats and really liked it.


We went with the Kingston Gray because of being in the southern climes. The sun can do a bit of a number on darker hulls down here. May not be an issue since we are planning on using the Permanon ceramic coating on ours.


I don't think you are very far behind our build at all. The woodwork progress looks to be about the same as mine.

 

[FWT]

FWT, can you explain the Bale bar a bit further? Is that something on the boat, or on the anchor. Might be obvious, but not sure what you mean. Thanks! Nate

At the forward tip of the roller assembly, on top, a bale or bail (I've seen it spelled both ways, so if searching do try both) is something that holds an anchor down at the shaft. It prevents the anchor from bouncing out or being pushed up and out by waves when pounding ahead.

If you look closely at Helmsman pics you can see holes. It has a bail bar that is removable.

The Vulcan shaft is curved, so the top edge of it rises high when pulled into place. The shaft of the standard Bruce style is straight so its not an issue with a bar.

Do a search of pics on rollers and you will find numerous examples of rollers with a half round bail.

A quick search for me yielded this.

https://kingstonanchors.com/products/bails-for-bow-rollers

I figure I'll take delivery of the boat, get the anchor installed without a bail, take measurements, make a choice and order, and replace the bar with something like one of those.

Note that some anchors really snug nice and tight by being pressed against a roller platform or something. On occasion I see it against a bail. The anchor wedged in. I can't know exactly what will work. What I do know is a Vulcan will fit, but not under a bail bar. I do want a bail of some kind for safety, and will just figure out that detail later.

PS, edited to add: will send you some pics Scott provided of a Vulcan on a H38

 

[BandB]

I agree about space on a boat but not sure I get your point about kitchen cabinets. Yes I have unsued space over mine, but I wouldn't be able to reach it anyway. Not sure what I would store there?

You have plenty of things in most kitchens that are seldom used and easy to use small ladders. Now, I admit my height simplifies things.

 

[Helmsman]

At the forward tip of the roller assembly, on top, a bale or bail (I've seen it spelled both ways, so if searching do try both) is something that holds an anchor down at the shaft. It prevents the anchor from bouncing out or being pushed up and out by waves when pounding ahead.

If you look closely at Helmsman pics you can see holes. It has a bail bar that is removable.

The Vulcan shaft is curved, so the top edge of it rises high when pulled into place. The shaft of the standard Bruce style is straight so its not an issue with a bar.

Do a search of pics on rollers and you will find numerous examples of rollers with a half round bail.

A quick search for me yielded this.

https://kingstonanchors.com/products/bails-for-bow-rollers

I figure I'll take delivery of the boat, get the anchor installed without a bail, take measurements, make a choice and order, and replace the bar with something like one of those.

Note that some anchors really snug nice and tight by being pressed against a roller platform or something. On occasion I see it against a bail. The anchor wedged in. I can't know exactly what will work. What I do know is a Vulcan will fit, but not under a bail bar. I do want a bail of some kind for safety, and will just figure out that detail later.

PS, edited to add: will send you some pics Scott provided of a Vulcan on a H38

Thanks. Looking forward to the pics.

So, it sounds like you are replacing/adding the anchor after the boat is delivered? Probably what I will do, so I have a spare on hand that could also be used in narrow anchorages as a stern anchor. A little heavy for that, but if the weather is rough, would be glad to have it.

 

[FWT]

Those.
Pics
Look
GREAT

You guys are killing me.

 

[Helmsman]

You have plenty of things in most kitchens that are seldom used and easy to use small ladders. Now, I admit my height simplifies things.

Our kitchen has 10 foot ceilings. Our cabinets go almost to the top. We store serving dishes, seldom used pots and pans, etc. up there. It is a handy use of space.

 

[FWT]

Thanks. Looking forward to the pics.



So, it sounds like you are replacing/adding the anchor after the boat is delivered? Probably what I will do, so I have a spare on hand that could also be used in narrow anchorages as a stern anchor. A little heavy for that, but if the weather is rough, would be glad to have it.

Not getting an anchor from Helmsman. Just chain.

I'll have the anchor pre-ordered and on hand to be installed with commissioning or myself immediately after.

 

[FWT]

Last item is the swivel. Folks seem to swear by the Mantus swivel, though it looks mighty complicated to me. Any other thoughts from anyone?

 

[rslifkin]

Last item is the swivel. Folks seem to swear by the Mantus swivel, though it looks mighty complicated to me. Any other thoughts from anyone?

Personally, I'd try it without a swivel and only add one if you have trouble getting the anchor to orient nicely on retrieval. No reason to add the extra cost and extra potential failure point until you know if you need one or not.

 

[Helmsman]

Last item is the swivel. Folks seem to swear by the Mantus swivel, though it looks mighty complicated to me. Any other thoughts from anyone?

I have done some light research on swivels. Quite a good discussion on the Mantus swivel on the AGLCA pay forum. There are a couple of guys on that site who are surveyors and cruisers who swear by them. They are pricey, but are supposed to be pretty bullet proof. The issue for swivels is their ability to handle side loading, which is where a lot of them fail. Doesn't appear to be an issue for the Mantus per some of the experts on that site. Since they recommend it, it is what I will go with when I replace the Bruce if needed.

 

[Helmsman]

Personally, I'd try it without a swivel and only add one if you have trouble getting the anchor to orient nicely on retrieval. No reason to add the extra cost and extra potential failure point until you know if you need one or not.

Hmm, makes sense, RS. Something else to consider.

 

[FWT]

I have done some light research on swivels. Quite a good discussion on the Mantus swivel on the AGLCA pay forum. There are a couple of guys on that site who are surveyors and cruisers who swear by them. They are pricey, but are supposed to be pretty bullet proof. The issue for swivels is their ability to handle side loading, which is where a lot of them fail. Doesn't appear to be an issue for the Mantus per some of the experts on that site. Since they recommend it, it is what I will go with when I replace the Bruce.

Yep. No side loading since they attach to the anchor via an included shackle.

The Ultra swivel is in some ways better, but fails the big problem of side loading. Its not hard to find stories and pics of those prying apart from side loading.

 

[rslifkin]

As a note on anchor retrieval with a Vulcan, I've found mine will self-orient just fine as long as it comes up something other than completely backwards. My roller setup is different than an H38 though. If it comes up sideways, it snaps upright as soon as it touches the roller. If it comes up perfectly backwards, it'll just hit the roller and stop. But a quick poke with a boat hook to get it to spin a little before it hits the roller does the trick.



In my case, I've got a mixed rode, so the issue is related to the chain getting re-loaded into the windlass in a random orientation any time I've gone past the chain part of the rode. So it may come up sideways one time, but straight the next time. If you've got all chain, the orientation in the windlass shouldn't change, so the anchor should spin back to the correct orientation every time on retrieval.

 

[FWT]

Personally, I'd try it without a swivel and only add one if you have trouble getting the anchor to orient nicely on retrieval. No reason to add the extra cost and extra potential failure point until you know if you need one or not.

Good point, but with nothing more to go on YET than videos and reviews, the Vulcan shape creates a somewhat violent shift when it comes up backward and then swings to right itself. I fully expect to want and need one.

 

[FWT]

As a note on anchor retrieval with a Vulcan, I've found mine will self-orient just fine as long as it comes up something other than completely backwards. My roller setup is different than an H38 though. If it comes up sideways, it snaps upright as soon as it touches the roller. If it comes up perfectly backwards, it'll just hit the roller and stop. But a quick poke with a boat hook to get it to spin a little before it hits the roller does the trick.



In my case, I've got a mixed rode, so the issue is related to the chain getting re-loaded into the windlass in a random orientation any time I've gone past the chain part of the rode. So it may come up sideways one time, but straight the next time. If you've got all chain, the orientation in the windlass shouldn't change, so the anchor should spin back to the correct orientation every time on retrieval.

All chain, so that's a really interesting observation. Many thanks

 

[rslifkin]

Good point, but with nothing more to go on YET than videos and reviews, the Vulcan shape creates a somewhat violent shift when it comes up backward and then swings to right itself. I fully expect to want and need one.

The self righting is definitely violent with the Vulcan from some positions. I've gotten in the habit of stopping the windlass right as the shank starts to hit the roller, letting it flip upright, then pulling it the last bit in. That generally makes it a bit less violent and saves it from banging around within the roller in the process.

 

[backinblue]

You have plenty of things in most kitchens that are seldom used and easy to use small ladders. Now, I admit my height simplifies things.

More storage space just means you accumulate more stuff to fill it! Anything that I would need to get a ladder to retrieve is better off in my basment or attic. I'm 6' but would not be able to reach above my cabinets w/o a small ladder of some sort.

 

[FWT]

The self righting is definitely violent with the Vulcan from some positions. I've gotten in the habit of stopping the windlass right as the shank starts to hit the roller, letting it flip upright, then pulling it the last bit in. That generally makes it a bit less violent and saves it from banging around within the roller in the process.

Does it snug up tightly on your roller, or move around a bit?

 

[rslifkin]

Does it snug up tightly on your roller, or move around a bit?

Mine is on a through-pulpit roller. I had to cut a piece of metal out of the roller assembly and notch the pulpit itself to get the shank to fit nicely and pull far enough into the roller, but once I did that, it's a very snug fit. It snugs right up into the notch with no fussing and sits tightly against it with almost no movement.

 

[FWT]

Thanks for that. Good news

And nice looking pulpit too.

 

[Helmsman]

Mine is on a through-pulpit roller. I had to cut a piece of metal out of the roller assembly and notch the pulpit itself to get the shank to fit nicely and pull far enough into the roller, but once I did that, it's a very snug fit. It snugs right up into the notch with no fussing and sits tightly against it with almost no movement.

That is a nice setup. I will wait on Rick and Nancy or FWT to try it and report back!

 

[Barrie]

Hi Helmsman: here are a few pictures of your two Biminis. Sorry no close ups.

 

[Helmsman]

I like the idea of seats back there. A lot of outdoor room when that area isn’t used for a dinghy.

 

[Two Truths]

We have used a Vulcan 25kg on our H38E with a Mantus Swivel for one season now. (The boat came with a Mantus M1 65lb, purchased by the previous owners, but I swapped it out for the Vulcan--see the separate thread: Bad fitting anchor on Helmsman). I don't know if the swivel is doing much or not, but it came with the boat so we kept it. We also have the original 20kg Bruce that we keep as a backup. So far the setup works just fine, and the anchor has always come up oriented correctly. The only time we had trouble setting was in thick grass that I suspect would have challenged any anchor.