Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-23-2022, 10:13 AM   #1
Guru
 
HeadedToTexas's Avatar
 
City: Sandusky Bay
Vessel Name: Escape
Vessel Model: Mariner 37
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 940
Adding cleats to my boat

The deck hardware on our Mariner 37 is rock solid and very high quality, but we have only one cleat available for which friends and dock hands can secure lines. The hawse pipe cleats are great, but securing a line to the from the dock is difficult for most everyone (including me).

Our slip is a port tie and we often have marina friends help with arrivals and the initial tie. Throwing the bow line is clear, but I lack a simple and clear request for securing lines to the midship and stern hawse pipe cleats.

Adding stern cleats to the gunwale near the transom is pretty straightforward as there is access (albeit tight) from the lazarette to install the necessary backing plates, but where and how would mount a clear amidships for spring lines?
Attached Thumbnails
806E0A70-FF6A-4216-8C01-620AC6A4BE3C.jpg  
HeadedToTexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2022, 10:20 AM   #2
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 16,827
Can you cut an access panel by the cleat location? You may have to move the cleat to where you can get access even if it isnít the ideal location. I like to use 1/4Ē aluminum backing plates and butter them with thickened epoxy on the top side so they make intimate contact with the deck, a lot of times the bottom of the deck isnít very smooth. By using the thickened epoxy you will have contact all over the aluminum instead of just the high points on the deck. Good luck.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2022, 10:26 AM   #3
Guru
 
HeadedToTexas's Avatar
 
City: Sandusky Bay
Vessel Name: Escape
Vessel Model: Mariner 37
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 940
That is my plan as well, but finding access to the gunwale amidships is not clear and I am hoping for for insights before I start cutting.
__________________
Escape
HeadedToTexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2022, 11:39 AM   #4
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Gibsons, B.C., Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,969
Much older boat but I have a similar problem. No midship cleats.
You may have to pull doors off , pull the fridge out or any other equipment from the interior in the general area you wish to mount a new cleat.
Just for good look. At this point no cutting or damaging stuff.
Do both sides, stbd. and port, to be sure you have sufficient access to properly mount a new cleat.

For a reasonable exam use of mechanic mirrors and a flashlight can be very helpfull. Or use one of the handheld camera probes with the flexible wands and an LED light. Mine has saved my bacon a couple of times.

I have not used the following method yet for the new cleats but have done this with stanchion mountings.

Access for your body is seriously reduced although some is needed. I have prepared 1/4 or even 5/16 or3/8 aluminum backing plates by using the cleats to mark out the drilling pattern.

Be sure the plates will fit properly, between both the cleats AND the backing plate mounting holes . Now is the time to make corrections.

If like mine the cleat mount area on top (outside) is about 2" wide but inside is less than 1.5". so you must carefully ensure the backing plate will seat properly. Radius the corners and round over the upper edges of the plates. Don't assume both mounting area will be duplicates.

I then drill the backing plate for HeliCoils of the bolt size to be used and install those. Read the instructions carefully. THey are not hard to deal with but be sure you understand what is needed.

I then use a much smaller piece of threaded ready rod, 3' of 8-32, which should be long enough. You will need some flexibilty of the rod thus the small size.

I drill one hole of that much smaller size rod in both the deck AND the backing plate and install a Helicoil in the plate only. Be carefull that the small holes are centered between the larger cleat holes. Make a pattern and double check that fit.

Put the rod through the deck hole with a nut and washer on the top so it does not just fall through, rather hangs. THen you can screw the backing plate to the rod and lift it into place. It may take some fiddling to line it up
between the deck and the plate holes. Install the cleat and cleat bolts and tighten it up.

If you wish to epoxy the plate to deck surface then use thickened epoxy to butter the plate and then lift the plate into place. DO this only after you have trial fitted both plates.
Personally I would trial fit the plates , then butter and lift the plates into place. DOn't go nuts on the epoxy, just enough to take care of any surface roughness. Use something like minifibres for the thickener, not glass balloons. Balloon are for decorative purposes. THis is not heavy structural but you still want toughness and some strength.

If you wish then once all is set up and adjusted you can run nuts and washers onto the extra bolt length and be sure there is some extra bolt length as the bolt ending inside the Helicoil will weaken the joint.

Use a long extension on a ratchet of the correct socket size and tighten. You will have to figure out what is needed specifically for this step. Deep sockets, standard socket, various extension lengths, drive size adapters,

I have often used tape to make the fit between a socket and a nut tight enough for the socket to stay at the open socket end untill the nut is started.

Just some thoughts.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2022, 11:55 AM   #5
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 16,827
Some very good tips.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2022, 12:40 PM   #6
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by C lectric View Post
I have often used tape to make the fit between a socket and a nut tight enough for the socket to stay at the open socket end untill the nut is started.

Just some thoughts.
May I offer one correction to your excellent thoughts to wit:

"I have often used tape to make the fit between a socket and a nut tight enough for the NUT to stay at the open socket end until the nut is started."
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2022, 03:14 PM   #7
Guru
 
ranger58sb's Avatar
 
City: Annapolis
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadedToTexas View Post
Our slip is a port tie and we often have marina friends help with arrivals and the initial tie. Throwing the bow line is clear, but I lack a simple and clear request for securing lines to the midship and stern hawse pipe cleats.

In the meantime... is there a way to pre-position lines on the cleats/piles at your home slip that can be picked up from the boat?

Maybe pre-measured so all you have to do is drop a loop over a boat cleat?

-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA
ranger58sb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2022, 04:36 PM   #8
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 5,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger58sb View Post
In the meantime... is there a way to pre-position lines on the cleats/piles at your home slip that can be picked up from the boat?

Maybe pre-measured so all you have to do is drop a loop over a boat cleat?

-Chris
That's how we do it for our home slip. Otherwise the line is pre attached on the boat and cleated at the dock end for initial tie up.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2022, 04:58 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
DCDC's Avatar
 
City: New Orleans
Vessel Name: Stella
Vessel Model: Seaton 56
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 263
Past postings:

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/...ion-63372.html
DCDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2022, 05:11 PM   #10
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 16,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
That's how we do it for our home slip. Otherwise the line is pre attached on the boat and cleated at the dock end for initial tie up.
On our Formula we have permanent lines on the bow cleats and tie them off on the after spring cleats. When we dock my wife takes the stern line ashore and then gets the bow line off the spring cleat and secures it. She wonít go up onto the bow to handle lines, donít blame her since there isnít anything to hold onto up there.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2022, 06:18 PM   #11
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,488
Had my builder (Bill Kimley) add a second set of midship cleats some distance apart. He was reluctant but employed them at dock because "they are convenient." ... When docked, I use one line from cleat to dock and to second midship cleat. Prevents forward and backward movement.
Attached Thumbnails
turning from berth.jpg  
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2022, 08:40 AM   #12
Guru
 
HeadedToTexas's Avatar
 
City: Sandusky Bay
Vessel Name: Escape
Vessel Model: Mariner 37
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 940
Our home slip is a pier with four 50 footers. Docking is easy in the prevailing west wind, but less so when the wind is from the east. Help on the dock ranges from a half dozen experienced captains to no one.

These new cleats are not for when we have no help on the dock. Nor will they improve our “leaving the boat” tie as the hawse pipe cleats and current deck hardware are outstanding when we have the time.

My objective for these new cleats is to give friends and deck hands a place to land preset dock lines I will have hanging from hooks on dock posts. Right now, I just don’t have a good answer to “where do you want this line?”
__________________
Escape
HeadedToTexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2022, 10:24 AM   #13
Guru
 
HeadedToTexas's Avatar
 
City: Sandusky Bay
Vessel Name: Escape
Vessel Model: Mariner 37
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCDC View Post
Excellent thread. Thickened epoxy vs. a flexible adhesive makes a lot of sense, and mine would go on surfaces well away from toes.
HeadedToTexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2022, 06:58 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Barrie's Avatar
 
City: Ottawa, Canada
Vessel Name: GYPSY
Vessel Model: HELMSMAN 38 aka Mariner 37 PH
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 100
We have the same boat and from your picture you seem to have a midship hawse pipe cleats. I use mine for spring lines. What am i missing from your request?
Barrie
Barrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2022, 08:02 AM   #15
Guru
 
HeadedToTexas's Avatar
 
City: Sandusky Bay
Vessel Name: Escape
Vessel Model: Mariner 37
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie View Post
What am i missing from your request?
Barrie
We do too, Barrie, but when arriving at a dock with unfamiliar dock hands or friends with plenty more on their minds than where our lines go, a cleat is obvious where a hawse pipe cleat is not.

How do you secure a dock line to a hawse pipe cleat from the dock? Or more to the point, how to you ask your friends or neighbors to secure lines to your hawse pipe cleats?
HeadedToTexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2022, 08:16 AM   #16
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 25,798
I would tell them just to wrap it around and around a couple times.... I would fix it later and it is the rare instance that anything more than a couple wraps wouldn't hold for a few minutes.

I usually have to fix most cleating jobs anyway as they are lead in wrong or wrapped wrong or the line needs adjusting anyway.

For preset docklines? Heck.... most people have them adjusted with the loop end coming abord the boat so "friends" can drop the loop over the cleat like Chris pointed out in his post. You can do the same with a hawse cleat one of several ways. Most of them try all kinds of different things when attaching the loop to a regular cleat that I have to fix too.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2022, 08:24 AM   #17
Guru
 
HeadedToTexas's Avatar
 
City: Sandusky Bay
Vessel Name: Escape
Vessel Model: Mariner 37
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 940
That’s exactly what I’m after, PS, but it’s almost impossible with hawse pipe type cleats, at least where they are on the Mariner 37 / Helmsman 38.

And yes, virtually all initial ties get re-done once everything is settled in place. It’s that initial tie that is tough. Feeding a dock line in through the hawse pipe is not hard, but knowing about, much less putting a good tie on, the cleats inside and well out of view from the dock is very difficult.
__________________
Escape
HeadedToTexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2022, 09:39 AM   #18
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 25,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadedToTexas View Post
That’s exactly what I’m after, PS, but it’s almost impossible with hawse pipe type cleats, at least where they are on the Mariner 37 / Helmsman 38.

And yes, virtually all initial ties get re-done once everything is settled in place. It’s that initial tie that is tough. Feeding a dock line in through the hawse pipe is not hard, but knowing about, much less putting a good tie on, the cleats inside and well out of view from the dock is very difficult.
No one but you has to make up a good hitch on the hawse hole tie, friends and helpers can Mickey Mouse it till you do it right....of course they would have to be on board if the cleat is that far out of reach or sight.

99% of the marinas I have been at.... all someone has to is stick a line through the hole, pull it back over the rail and put in a half hitch in. That will generally hold a boat your size till you cleat it up properly.

And if all my waterman type ideas are dumb, then splice up a loop in a short line that before docking, you cleat it off properly and stick the loop to hang outside of the hawse hole. Then just put a rated carabiner on the dock line (or hanging loop).... or use a shackle if you think helpers can master one of those to connect them together. This setup would be done (except if you use a shackle that would have to be tightened and possibly moused).
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2022, 10:06 AM   #19
Guru
 
HeadedToTexas's Avatar
 
City: Sandusky Bay
Vessel Name: Escape
Vessel Model: Mariner 37
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
... all someone has to is stick a line through the hole, pull it back over the rail and put in a half hitch in. That will generally hold a boat your size till you cleat it up properly.
That makes sense, and I've seen one of my more experienced sailboat neighbors tie us off that way once. A friend also suggested the short line hanging out of the hawse pipe for docking. Excellent idea. Thank you!
__________________
Escape
HeadedToTexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2022, 01:13 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Barrie's Avatar
 
City: Ottawa, Canada
Vessel Name: GYPSY
Vessel Model: HELMSMAN 38 aka Mariner 37 PH
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 100
Sorry, I'm still not understanding your problem. When i dock, i have three lines draped over the safety rails, bow-spring-stern, ready for easy pickup by dockhands. Most times helpers just tie a simple wrap on the cleat for me to fuss with later. (now i'm in fresh water. It might be different in salt water) Just kidding!!
Barrie
Barrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012