SPLASH! TT35 Hull #1

[Donsan]

Some models in Beneteau Swift Trawler family has an opening gate that opens the transom to the swim platform so that the "Transom opens to extend the cockpit space connecting it with the swim platform, creating a real terrace over the sea." They seemed to have made this feature work ok.

Also, Pacific Trawlers had an open transom configuration and it was somewhat popular. Certainly, the cockpit on the Beneteau and the Pacific Trawler is well above the water line. In the case of the TT35, the builder just made a poor design decision that probably could have been avoided if they had used a Marine Architect.

 

[BandB]

In the case of the TT35, the builder just made a poor design decision that probably could have been avoided if they had used a Marine Architect.

And while they recognized it in making changes in future builds, they didn't do anything to remedy the already completed boats.

 

[Miz Trom]

djmarchand - I agree with you that the TT35 photo on the GH website shows an outboard that appears a smidge too low in the water. That is a photo of hull #2, which was finished by the builder before our boat, and delivered to her owner long before our boat went out the door.

If you look at the photos of our boat in post #1, you will see that our brackets & outboards appear higher than hull #2's outboards. However, we were at idle speed in those photos of our boat.

When accelerating rapidly, our stern squats for a little while before it gets up on plane, as is normal. Looking at the small bow wave in the website photo, I am wondering if the hull #2 photo was taken during such an acceleration, perhaps causing a misleading impression?

Our experience with our boat is that additional buoyancy aft would likely cause the outboards to cavitate. The original awash cockpit was not caused by a lack of buoyancy aft.

It was caused by a poorly designed cockpit sole just below the waterline and a poorly designed tailgate that sucked water into the cockpit from underneath & around the sides of the tailgate. (The cockpit sole was originally 11 inches below the cabin sole, now it is 8.)


As Don and BandB noted & agree, this could and should have been avoided if only the builder had employed a naval architect instead of designing it himself.


And thank you for the kind words, Benthic2! Now that she has been modified, we think we have the perfect shallow draft boat for the Gulf Coast of Florida and the Loop.:lol:


Cheers,
Pea

 

[durangodawgs]

Congrats you two! We are still waiting for the completion of our TT35.

 

[BandB]

Congrats you two! We are still waiting for the completion of our TT35.

What number is yours and when was it originally promised?

 

[JLD]

Pea,

I and very happy to hear that you and Dan have been able to splash your new boat! Congrats!!

I have read your trials and tribulations getting to this point. Thank you for starting this thread so that we all can share in your 'corrections' to the new boat. It looks like you were able to get a great group of professions to fix your new boat.

Hopefully y'all will be blogging you Great Loop adventure. If so, I know that I will be reading along. We hope to do at least half of the Great Loop when I retire in a couple of years.

Jim

 

[JeremyZ]

Seriously thank you so much for detailing the issues with photos and all. I am talking to Great Harbor about possibly getting one of these. It is so helpful to see what the problems are with this model.

 

[Stevereed]

Steve Reed

Great post and very helpful. I had hull #9 on order and cancelled the order about 18 months ago. Still considering the TT35 and would appreciate continued updates to help make my decision! My biggest concern was the 10' Beam for extended time onboard!

 

[Joe Pica]

Below is a picture of a full hull extension bracket wearing twins on my new to me Rosborough 246 HSV. I originally planned to order a TT-35 however felt it was a bigger boat to tow than I wanted. I was involved in the early stages of the concept ended up with little input (I was looking at from a looper/cruisers perspective). Also, when I found out that Lou Codega was not involved I backed out as I have the greatest respect for Lou's expertise with hulls and hull performances and didn't want to be a Beta Tester without his professional naval engineering and architect input. I enjoyed great cruising in an N-37 hull of his design. After 40,000+ miles I am still impressed at it's comfort and capability. It is a great cruising couples boat. The Rosi will be a huge adjustment after the luxury of the N but I feel comfortable trailering it and it is well equipped ... just such limited storage.

 

[Carl Martin]

Congratulations! The boat is awesome!

 

[Miz Trom]

[FONT=&quot]Repairs Part 3 of 6
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[FONT=&quot]ELECTRICAL ISSUES – as originally built (warning - my most boring post!)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]When our marine surveyor, Bill Gladding, initially inspected the “finished” boat, he noted that the electrical system was not grounded.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Then he found that, astonishingly, the gas tanks were also not grounded.
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[FONT=&quot]Bill requested that the builder remedy these safety issues prior to the lake trial. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]In other words, if we had not hired Bill to survey our TT35 and simply headed out on our Loop cruise last year, well, my imagination about what could potentially have happened….[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But that’s exactly why we hired Bill Gladding. He is based near St. Augustine, is totally awesome, and here is his website:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]http://www.gladdingmarinesurvey.com/[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Bill’s final survey listed the electrical issues 1-9 below after the grounding issues were fixed by GH.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The first six were the deviations from ABYC standards that bothered us the most. There were some other minor ABYC violations that Bill noted, like electrical outlets not being wired GFI, but hubby Dan has handled those.
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[FONT=&quot]Numbers seven through nine below are common sense issues. Number ten relates to our distrust of Rule bilge pumps. The eleventh issue was a minor design issue that we decided to improve regarding the all-round light.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We gave this list to our marine electrician, Charlie Johnson, and he has completed almost everything on the list except for 9-11, and we expect those will be completed this week. (Fingers and toes are crossed - we are almost at the finish line!)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Charlie Johnson is not only ABYC certified, he is a member of the Electrical Standards Committee for the ABYC! [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Charlie has years of international cruising experience on his Gulfstar trawler and possesses a wealth of information about all aspects of cruising. He is always so cheerful and fun. I could talk to him for days on end about his boats and adventures, and he has made a number of remarkable suggestions for improving cruising life that I have not heard anywhere else.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Here is Charlie’s website: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]https://www.jtbmarine.com/about.html[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And here is the list of electrical issues that we handed to Charlie:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1. Replace cracked battery in house bank of six Firefly batteries.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Shore power system main breaker is located more than ten feet from shore power inlet; install additional breaker within ten feet of shore power inlet (ABYC E-11.10.2.8.3).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]3. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]DC to AC power inverter calls for overcurrent protection on AC power in and ELCI type on AC power out; identify and install appropriate types and capacity overcurrent devices (Victron manual & ABYC E-11.10.2.8.3).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]4. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]DC to AC power inverter case is not grounded; identify and install appropriate type and size grounding conductor (Victron Energy manual & ABYC A-31.6.5).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]5. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]No high-water bilge alarm found aboard; install level switch that sounds audible alarm when excess water is present in bilge (ABYC H-22.7.3).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]6. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Install galvanic isolator on shore power system to provide measure of protection against accelerated zinc depletion that may occur while shore power is in use (ABYC E-11).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]7. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]BMV-702 battery monitor shunt is mounted in location where it will not capture all battery current in and out flows (solar panels, alternators, shore power); relocate first inline from batteries between batteries and DC negative buss in pilothouse/main cabin equipment room where it can accurately monitor all current flows.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]8. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Three position windshield wiper switch provides only on/off function; rewire as necessary to insure full function of all wiper features.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]9. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Install engine instrumentation for the Suzuki outboards both at upper and lower helms. (This was in our build contract but overlooked by GH.)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]10.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Replace Rule bilge pumps and devise method to inspect bilge pumps.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]11.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Extend all-round light fixture higher than bimini top on upper deck.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Charlie has also added an additional needed fuse box behind the helm and labelled every wire, even ones he did not install. We had requested wiring and plumbing schematics from the builder over and over again, but the builder refused to provide these.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Charlie made a very good point that it would add very little to the cost of any new build to label every wire, and the cost benefit later (when things go wrong) would far outweigh the initial outlay.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I have included below just a photo of our house bank in the crawl space beneath our cabin sole. My apologies, again, for this boring post. [/FONT]
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[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Next up, why no safety railings?[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Cheers,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Pea[/FONT]
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[Miz Trom]

I enjoyed great cruising in an N-37 hull of his design. After 40,000+ miles I am still impressed at it's comfort and capability. It is a great cruising couples boat.

Hey Joe:


THIS - Lou Codega Naval Architect - was a big reason why we wanted a TT35. We are huge fans of Lou. The GH trawlers from 1998-2008 are some of the finest affordable and reliable trawlers ever built, much like the Helmsman line today.


We were led to believe that Lou Codega had also designed the TT35. Imagine our surprise after our boat was "finished" when we corresponded with Lou and discovered that this was not the case.


Cheers,
Pea

 

[DavidM]

I have noted your list of rework items with some interest. They seem to indicate a first time builder with a rather callous disregard of standards and norms.


Almost twenty years ago I bought a new 43' sailboat from a somewhat new (been in business for only 1-2 years) builder, Saga Marine in St Catharines, Ontario. I think what helped that deal (and it was by no means perfect, but a lot better than your TT35) was that the builder hired experienced labor from the local area that had worked for other now defunct builders such as C&C and Hinterhoeller. The electrical work for example was near perfect.



That experienced labor was able to build a decent boat. Contrast this with Jeanneau who tried to build boats in Canada from a new shop, not sure where. The first boats to come off of the line were delivered without an ounce of caulking in all deck fittings. Rain poured through the roof of those boats and quickly destroyed the interior.


So what is going on with GH? Did they start a new factory with non experienced labor to build the TT35?


Also even experienced builders sometimes produce a prototype first, work all of the bugs out and then start making them for sale. That would have avoided the sole height fiasco.


Sorry to detract from your interesting and forthright description of your changes to your boat. Kind of like a prototype after all of the kinks were worked out.


David

 

[ssobol]

... Also even experienced builders sometimes produce a prototype first, work all of the bugs out and then start making them for sale. That would have avoided the sole height fiasco. ...

A prototype is a good idea, but often the builder can't sell it or can only sell it after bringing up to the production standard (if that is even possible). This sunk cost can be more than a small manufacturer can afford so they try to get away with out doing it.

If the product a similar enough that their accumulated experience can be applied they might get away without a prototype. However, the TT35 is a significant departure from the other boats in the GH line.

 

[Donsan]

Pea - somewhere along the line, I got the impression you and Dan bought the Firefly batteries and provided them to GH. Is issue 1 that GH cracked the battery case and refused to replace it?


Dave - I believe the last GH37/47 and N37/47 was built in 2009. Between 2009 and TT35 Spirit Song, no new boats were built. Kind of hard to keep a skilled and experienced labor force under those kind of conditions. There are other experienced personnel in north Central Florida such as Monterey and Marlow Hunter. How successful GH was in trying to recruit experienced personnel is open to question. But I think the real issue here isn't the experience of the manufacturing personnel but rather a flawed design to start with, failure to adhere to ABYC specs, and a refusal to correct issues that were identified by one of the best surveyors in the business.


As of yesterday, TT35 Spirit Song, hull #2, is still on the market and the seller has reduced the price to $250K. It likely has all the issues Pea and Dan experienced and maybe more. I don't think there is much of a chance of finding a buyer at anywhere near that price with the known flaws in this thread. Very sad situation.

 

[Island Bound]

"Dave - I believe the last GH37/47 and N37/47 was built in 2009. Between 2009 and TT35 Spirit Song, no new boats were built. Kind of hard to keep a skilled and experienced labor force under those kind of conditions. There are other experienced personnel in north Central Florida such as Monterey and Marlow Hunter. How successful GH was in trying to recruit experienced personnel is open to question. But I think the real issue here isn't the experience of the manufacturing personnel but rather a flawed design to start with, failure to adhere to ABYC specs, and a refusal to correct issues that were identified by one of the best surveyors in the business."

[FONT=&quot]Mirage launched Island Swan (hull #65), an N37 model in 2010. In late 2014, Mirage started building a new N37, which was delivered to the customer in 2015 partially finished to have a custom interior installed. This boat was assigned hull #67 in the Great Harbour Trawler sequence. That disconnect in hull numbers came about because hull #66 has been reassigned to Spoonbill (previously hull #64), an N47 model Mirage charter boat built just prior to Island Swan in 2009. Spoonbill was sold in April of 2014 and certified and re-documented with the USCG as Almost Heaven, a 2014 model year new build. She was given a new Hull Identification Number (HIN) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]reflecting hull #66 and a March of 2014 certification or completion date.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]You are basically correct in that there was a more than a four year gap in trawler deliveries. Mirage has built at least one flats boat in the last few years and finished a 32' sport boat that had been sitting in the shop next to our boat during her 2014/2015 refit. There is a new N37 under construction currently and that boat will be hull #68 in the displacement trawler series.
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[Miz Trom]

As of yesterday, TT35 Spirit Song, hull #2, is still on the market and the seller has reduced the price to $250K. It likely has all the issues Pea and Dan experienced and maybe more. I don't think there is much of a chance of finding a buyer at anywhere near that price with the known flaws in this thread.

Don:

I will disagree with you on this. In our opinion, Spirit Song is a steal at $250k. 75 hours on the outboards and three 265-watt solar panels, full electronics including autopilot, radar, chartplotter etc. Plus, a very cool rear-view camera for docking assist.

https://sysyachtsales.com/yachts-an...our-tt35-spirit-song/vid-2763267/userid-80074

A buyer willing to invest around $25k into the same modifications we have had done would then have a practically new vessel for at least $65k less than a new TT35 similarly equipped. And in less time than it would take to get a new TT35 built.

And regarding your question about the cracked Firefly battery, yes, you are exactly right.

Cheers,
Pea

 

[Carl Martin]

Would love to see some interior photos. Any thoughts yet on the Suzukis?

 

[Miz Trom]

Repairs Part 4 of 6


Flybridge Railings - A Love Story


[FONT=&quot]My first time on the new TT35 afloat was during the lake trial in March of 2018.
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As [FONT=&quot]the boat was underway on the lake, I went up to the flybridge. Picture me stepping up the ladder, and then immediately dropping & crawling across the open deck from the hatch to the flybridge structure. I had to crawl in the hope that my low center of gravity would prevent me from flying off the upper deck if the helmsman below decided to make a sudden turn. This is when I knew the boat needed railings on the flybridge.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]When Mariso was undergoing the fiberglass mods at ABW later in 2018, we asked Paul for a recommendation for an aluminum shop for railings. He recommended Monopoli Marine, and these amazing craftsmen met us at the ABW shop.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot]The first thing that Pete, Sr. and Pete, Jr. noticed was that the originally installed grab bar next to the flybridge hatch was oddly tilted.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot]The base of the original grab bar was flat and did not match the pitch of the upper deck, resulting in the grab bar angling outward from the deck to the same degree as the pitch of the deck.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]The top section of the original grab bar was impossible to grab with one’s left hand when popping up through the hatch, because the open flybridge hatch door was always in the way. Only the lower vertical section of the grab bar was usable for pulling oneself up and out of the flybridge hatch, which made for a rather awkward lurch onto the upper deck.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Pete & Peter Jr. built the new flybridge railings with bases to match the pitch of the deck, and this important detail has proven to be an exceptional improvement for stepping up through the hatch. You can see the difference this has made in photos 5 - 10 below.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot]In addition, we needed to NOT throw shadows onto the solar panels with the new railings. Our railing fabricators' knowledge and experience became apparent as we talked through various options.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot] Their final product achieved our goals of 1) markedly improving that first step onto the upper deck, 2) always having a hand on the boat when on the upper deck, and 3) our no-shadows-on-the-solar-panels goal.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I have never loved railings before. Railings are one of those boat items that you don’t appreciate very much until you realize that they are not there. I love these railings – thank you Monopoli Marine of Tarpon Springs![/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Following are descriptions of each photo below:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot]1. Side view of original stupid grab bar for hatch [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. Looking forward, BEFORE any railings were installed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. Looking forward again, BEFORE any railings were installed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4. Looking forward, AFTER railings were installed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5. Another view AFTER railings were installed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6. Looking aft on the flybridge at Pete Sr, Dan and Pete Jr horsing around, BEFORE railings were installed[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7. Looking aft (no people), BEFORE the railings were installed[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8. Looking aft AFTER the railings were installed[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9. Ease of Use 1[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10. Ease of Use 2[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Next up -- Symbolic of a state of mind?
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[FONT=&quot]Cheers,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Pea[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot]P.S. Hey Carl! I'll rustle up some interior shots for you...[/FONT]
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[cardude01]

Big improvement!

 

[Island Bound]

I like the custom look and it adds increased functionality and safety to the fly bridge. It is a win-win all around.

 

[Genecop]

I am enjoying this thread, thanks for taking the time and including us in your experience..It really goes to show you that rough situations can be handled in different ways...Someone else might have chosen to tie this purchase up in the Courts..

You managed to take the high road and as a result have a beautiful boat that you will be enjoying....Well Done..

 

[ssobol]

Seems like GH went from "get it right" to "get it out the door", maybe because of financial pressure. I've seen this happen in other situations.

 

[cardude01]

I am enjoying this thread, thanks for taking the time and including us in your experience..It really goes to show you that rough situations can be handled in different ways...Someone else might have chosen to tie this purchase up in the Courts..

You managed to take the high road and as a result have a beautiful boat that you will be enjoying....Well Done..

This! It’s so refreshing to read about people who handle bad situations with grace.

 

[healhustler]

This! It’s so refreshing to read about people who handle bad situations with grace.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Carl Martin]

And now the most important question: where do you put the dinghy?

 

[Greatlaker221]

Ok now I’m hooked, 5/6?

 

[Benthic2]

This has become my favorite thread!

 

[Joe Pica]

Charlie is my go to electrician. Charlie did my LFP04 batteries and integration. Very good!

 

[Miz Trom]

The latest addition to our boss vessel

Just had to share what the UPS truck brought to us on Friday.



Photos (click on each photo for captions)


Photos 1 - 7 - - - Guess what we got!!!

Photo 8 - The reason why we got it

Photo 9 - Having fun... taking a break from boat repairs, practicing two-engine maneuvers. Two engines are the freakin' cat's pajamas! (And contrary to popular belief, I do let Dan drive the boat now & then!)


Thank you all very much for your complimentary posts. You are much too kind.

Joe, yes, Charlie Johnson is extraordinary. He is working on an Aquila 44 conversion to all-electric, and running back and forth between that job and our job. I am massively enjoying hearing all about this electric conversion - the owner chose the Torqeedo inboards + Torqeedo gigantic batteries + Torqeedo integrated dc genny - the whole enchilada.


Carl, you hit the nail on the head. The dinghy muddle still has us tied up in knots.... a dinghy is pretty much a must-have with two dogs and plans to be on the hook a lot. Weight (can we haul it up on the swim platform?) and beam (we have 5' 3.5" between the outboards) are the befuddling factors.


Cheers,
Pea