Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-28-2018, 12:44 PM   #61
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
Well, you said "there is a market." No evidence at all there is. Someone trying to establish one but making some drawings or a design and putting it on a web site isn't evidence of a market. Sales are evidence of a market. You say "if I was in the market for a vessel in this size range" but you're not. This brings us back to the GH74, that the market has shown no interest in it while others in that size range are selling. Good marketing teams subscribe to designing what the consumer will buy.
Who really gives a hoot if there is or isn't a market? The premise of the original post is that it is a likeable design, and wonders if one has been built.

All boats start as a design. I would dare say that most great designers and architects have some fantastic designs that have never been or never will be built.

Not everything needs to be evaluated by a business case. In fact, thank goodness that some boat builders and boat buyers make spectacularly bad business decisions. If they didn't, some great boats and yachts would never exist.

I, for one, am pretty bored by the Chinese copycat design house styling of semi-custom yachts. Getting almost McMansion like.

Pick up a Woodenboat magazine once in a while and be swept away by the romanticism of boats.

End rant. [tongue firmly in cheek]
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 12:45 PM   #62
Member
 
City: AZ
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsan View Post
Keep buying those lotto tickets!
Every week, my dad always said the odds of winning are 50/50. Either you win or you lose.
wannaboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 12:47 PM   #63
JLD
Guru
 
City: Delaware
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 681
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannaboat View Post
Every week, my dad always said the odds of winning are 50/50. Either you win or you lose.


Jim
JLD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 12:49 PM   #64
Member
 
City: AZ
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 18
Wooden Boat is a fabulous magazine and being from New England I've been fortunate enough to see their school, amazing.
wannaboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 12:56 PM   #65
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
If I were in the market for a 50' plus boat I'd go for a 56' Tad Roberts Passagemaker Lite, which could cross oceans quickly and still sneak through skinny water passages.

Quote:
The payoff for lighter displacement and a longer waterline is more speed with the same or less power. For example, the Nordhavn 46 crosses oceans at a speed/length ratio of about 1.2, which translates to 7.4 knots. The PL 46 design has a speed/length ratio of 1.2 and travels at 8 knots. And, for the PL 56, it is 8.8 knots. On a long voyage, such as the 2,200 nautical miles from southern California to Hawaii, this can make a difference of days. Two thousand two hundred miles at 7.4 knots is 297 hours, while at 8 knots it is 275 hours, and at 8.8 knots it is 250 hours. The PL 56 would take about two days less than the Nordhavn 46 on the same passage.
Passagemaker Lite 56 - Tad Roberts' fast, seaworthy, fuel-efficient long-range passagemaker
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 12:59 PM   #66
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
...Not everything needs to be evaluated by a business case...
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 01:12 PM   #67
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayM View Post
Good point, but sales numbers do not necessarily mean it's a good design, only that the boat satisfies a small segment of the herd that'll absorb the added cost of *bling* and marketing campaigns into the purchase price.
No, they mean it satisfies a market. No sales means it doesn't satisfy a market.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 01:24 PM   #68
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
Who really gives a hoot if there is or isn't a market? The premise of the original post is that it is a likeable design, and wonders if one has been built.

All boats start as a design. I would dare say that most great designers and architects have some fantastic designs that have never been or never will be built.

Not everything needs to be evaluated by a business case. In fact, thank goodness that some boat builders and boat buyers make spectacularly bad business decisions. If they didn't, some great boats and yachts would never exist.

I, for one, am pretty bored by the Chinese copycat design house styling of semi-custom yachts. Getting almost McMansion like.

Pick up a Woodenboat magazine once in a while and be swept away by the romanticism of boats.

End rant. [tongue firmly in cheek]
He said there was a market. I said not. I also add there isn't a market for wooden boats. There once was. If you talk market, then you're talking business.

You're right about great designs never seeing the light of day. Some of my greatest ideas haven't. However, we are talking about a business with the objective of selling boats.

We have a desire today for a boat that doesn't exist. It doesn't exist because there's no market for it. If we want to get one, we need to find someone to build it custom for us. Otherwise we need to select from what the market offers. (Actually we have desires for more than one non-existent boat).

I've been on the other end, fully supportive of an idea merchandising presented, thinking they're right on target and almost geniuses, only then to watch a focus group when it's presented to them and out of 20 people, 16 say absolutely no, 3 say mild no's, and 1 loves it. The End for it.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 01:28 PM   #69
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
No, they mean it satisfies a market. No sales means it doesn't satisfy a market.
Respectfully, 'no' back to you...it means they created a need in the market.

Insert photo from helicopter of fat balding middle aged man on flybridge of rocketing *bling* Yacht with two bikini clad models.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 01:30 PM   #70
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,610
Speaking of unique new design vessels -

The 35Z MJM looks fascinating. So much so that the first 21 are presold. The vessel is designed by Bob Johnstone & Doug Zurn and built in the normal high quality MJM fashion. But, it has twin outboards, 300Hp Verados, yielding something like 1 + nmpg at 35 knots - and a Seakeeper to boot!

Good design, efficiency and a strong following sells well. MJMs are legendary and built in the wonderful New England tradition. BTW, Zurn designed the latest Duffy, a diesel powered cruiser in the mid 50' range that like other Zurn designs achieves speed and efficiency.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 01:34 PM   #71
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,914
Doug Zurn turns out great designs.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 01:41 PM   #72
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
Doug Zurn turns out great designs.
I well remember you saying the same a few years ago. Spot on.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 01:41 PM   #73
Guru
 
City: Great Lakes
Vessel Model: OA 440
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 835
During August looper weeks on Lake Michigan we occasionally end up with a transient 37 in the adjacent slip. It's like having a two story fiberglass wall erected next door. Blocks out the sun. About as much visual appeal as a warehouse or apartment building. Fancy houseboat. Ugh.
Rufus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 01:48 PM   #74
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
During August looper weeks on Lake Michigan we occasionally end up with a transient 37 in the adjacent slip. It's like having a two story fiberglass wall erected next door. Blocks out the sun. About as much visual appeal as a warehouse or apartment building. Fancy houseboat. Ugh.
I note what you say Rufus, but what kind of ugly (they all are to somebody) boat do you have that we can rail at?
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 02:03 PM   #75
Guru
 
City: Great Lakes
Vessel Model: OA 440
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
I note what you say Rufus, but what kind of ugly (they all are to somebody) boat do you have that we can rail at?
Rail away... (Note the lack of canvas enclosures)

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN7387.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	103.1 KB
ID:	72508
Rufus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 02:13 PM   #76
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
Rail away... (Note the lack of canvas enclosures)

Attachment 72508
So a one season boat? Actually I'll never rail on someone else's choice of boats, not the fat man's blingy boat with bikini babes or the dullest old boat. They are all a matter of taste. Yours looks very nice.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 02:23 PM   #77
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
Rail away... (Note the lack of canvas enclosures)

Attachment 72508
Nice boat for dry warm weather Rufus, but not quite as interesting to many as a GH, as evidenced by this thread.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 02:35 PM   #78
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
On the topic of sales as a measure of value...was Andy Warhol a great artist, or was he a great marketer who's work is artificially inflated? I'll go with the second option

https://www.economist.com/blogs/pros...rary_art_sales
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 02:56 PM   #79
Member
 
City: AZ
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 18
Pretty boat Rufus, sadly it looks like every other boat in the marina.
wannaboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 03:22 PM   #80
Member
 
City: AZ
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
So a one season boat? Actually I'll never rail on someone else's choice of boats, not the fat man's blingy boat with bikini babes or the dullest old boat. They are all a matter of taste. Yours looks very nice.
I want bikini babes 😜
wannaboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012