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Old 01-27-2018, 04:25 PM   #21
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For us who know the boat builder personally, and have spent hundreds of house at the helm and maintaining a Great Harbour, you gain a unique perspective on boats and the builder. I have great respect for Mirage. Craftsmen and entrepreneurs are a different breed. They are willing to do things differently than others. They don't do schedules well and won't turn loose of the boat till they get it right. I have no problem with that. It so easy to throw stones.....
You're his friend and have no problem, but boat purchasers have serious problems with builders who don't meet their commitments. This discussion was regarding why the 74 hadn't sold any. No one watching the ever shifting timeline of the 35 would dare purchase a $3+ million dollar boat from him that he's never built.

The excuse that craftsmen and entrepreneurs are a different breed is bogus. He's set up as a businessman and these things are very poor business practices. Where is hull #1? When will #2 be completely done and ready for him to do the loop? Any performance numbers on it? What about #3 and #4? What about the changes he's making that #1-#4 won't have the benefit of so they'll have to live with the issues the changes address?

As with all builders, you deal with Mirage at your own risk. However, all these facts are part of one determining what that risk is and whether to risk $3+ million on a 74. Based on the 35, I would expect it to take him 4 years to build a 74.

I'm glad you have a Great Harbour you love. Very happy for you and not criticizing your finished boat in any way. He's got happy customers, but he's also had unhappy ones. He's publicized the TT35 so he must also live with his failure to meet any time he's quoted in the entire process. They're his dates, his promises. The waiting buyers aren't speaking and aren't going to as they're still locked into the situation.

If you would purchase the 74 from Great Harbour based on your knowledge and friendship, then that's fine too.
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Old 01-27-2018, 04:50 PM   #22
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As the owner of hull #2 says, "patience is an essential element". LOTS OF PATIENCE.
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Old 01-27-2018, 05:23 PM   #23
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As the owner of hull #2 says, "patience is an essential element". LOTS OF PATIENCE.
I obviously don't have it. He really had no choice but patience and handled it far better than I would have. You commit to me and I expect you to meet the commitment.
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Old 01-27-2018, 05:30 PM   #24
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I wonder how long it would take to build?
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Old 01-27-2018, 05:47 PM   #25
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Also i would have this boat built if I had the money.
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Old 01-27-2018, 06:08 PM   #26
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Also i would have this boat built if I had the money.
Tell me why you would choose the GH 74 vs all the other boats in that range? Vs. the North Pacific 62. Vs. Outer Reef 72 and 70', vs. Grand Banks 60, Hatteras 75, Marlow 66, KK 55, Nordhavn 68 and 72, Searay 65, Ocean Alexander 70, Cheoy Lee 72, Horizon 72, 73 or 74? I'm just curious as to the attraction in a never previously built boat by a builder who has never built a boat close to it's size and in the perspective of this. He took the order for Hull #1 the first of 2016 for delivery by the Annapolis show. He then moved that date to Thanksgiving. Well #1 hasn't been delivered yet and #2 made the Annapolis show but in 2017 and not finished at that time and is just now approaching readiness. So, 16 months later than stated for first boat and hull #1 still not delivered.

You asked how long to build the 74. I'd say two years to complete the design and build the molds and two years to build the boat based on history. 2 years time to complete a TT35 so double that for a 74. With existing mold should be 6 to 9 months max and without one 12-15 months max.

Just trying to see what would motivate you to contract for the 74. Not saying it's wrong, just I don't understand.
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Old 01-27-2018, 06:29 PM   #27
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Getting a Lou Codega designed boat would be good reason.
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Old 01-27-2018, 06:46 PM   #28
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I don't like the look of those other boats, they're to flash. I love the look of the 74 and I like the fact that it has a beam of nearly 24 ft. That's almost 10 ft more than any of the boats you listed. I love the shallow draft and the range capability because of the larger fuel tanks afforded by the wider beam and what Northern Spy said.

This boat just appeals to me on so many levels.
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Old 01-27-2018, 06:53 PM   #29
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Getting a Lou Codega designed boat would be good reason.
Are you certain Lou Codega completed the design? I am skeptical that Mirage put the funds into a design that was never built.
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Old 01-27-2018, 06:56 PM   #30
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I don'tblike the look of those other boats, they're to flash. I love the look of the 74 and I like the fact that it has a beam of nearly 24 ft. That's almost 10 ft more than any of the boats you listed. I love the shallow draft and the range capability because of the larger fuel tanks afforded by the wider beam and what Northern Spy said.

This boat just appeals to me on so many levels.
Agree with this. I think it looks far better than any of those listed. Lou has proven his designs are bulletproof for what they are designed to do. "An engineer's boat" IMHO.

Just look at N37 prices today - EVERY ONE of them, even the older ones. There's something driving that.
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Old 01-27-2018, 07:10 PM   #31
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"An engineer's boat" IMHO.
Aha! That's it!
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Old 01-27-2018, 07:12 PM   #32
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I don'tblike the look of those other boats, they're to flash. I love the look of the 74 and I like the fact that it has a beam of nearly 24 ft. That's almost 10 ft more than any of the boats you listed. I love the shallow draft and the range capability because of the larger fuel tanks afforded by the wider beam and what Northern Spy said.

This boat just appeals to me on so many levels.
10 ft more? Outer Reef 73 is 21' beam. Cheoy Lee 20'. Hatteras 21'. So, let's go with 3 ft more beam and an nice shallow draft if actual matches design. Impressive range too. I think some would like that it's powered by smaller engines. All the points you are making here other than 10' wider are quite interesting and could be attractive.
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Old 01-27-2018, 07:23 PM   #33
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Yeah i didn't actually look at the beam on all of them to be fair. Again it's an aesthetic thing, I just love the way it looks and I think I could make it my home.
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Old 01-27-2018, 09:02 PM   #34
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There simply isn't much demand for boats in that size range. To give you an idea, there are only 22 70+ foot yachts listed on Yacht World in the US and only 9 of those are <90ft. It's simply a tiny market.

I really hope they get an order, because it is a gorgeous boat and I love their design philosophy.
I would think that worldwide the new construction numbers for 70ft + are much higher than that. Used numbers and sale prices are not a very good indication of demand in a market that prizes the newest and greatest thing and can afford to buy new. What truly wealthy individual would want a second hand boat, someone else's hand me down.........? That's why many of them were driven to become rich in the first place!

And why take a chance on an untried shipbuilder who thinks that 72 feet is a big boat.......
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Old 01-27-2018, 09:23 PM   #35
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So I'm curious, every time I go to the GH website I see the GH74. I have to tell you I love this boat and I wonder why one has never been built, any ideas?
Let me open up my little book of euphemisms... let's see...
Perhaps the styling of this vessel is not in alignment with the modern trends. Perhaps the type of person who is willing to spend $3+ million on a boat isn't the type to just throw money away. So he is concerned with resale value and marketability. Which gives this 74ft yacht a very tiny resale customer base. Since none have been built then that indicates that if you were to build one then your chances of resale would be minimal, unless willing to lose one or two million right out the door.

Personally I understand the willingness to "throw money away" on an esoteric vessel. But $3+mil is a lot to throw away.
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Old 01-27-2018, 09:33 PM   #36
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Resale value isn't really a concern to me. If I had this boat built it would be something I lived on.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:08 PM   #37
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There simply isn't much demand for boats in that size range. To give you an idea, there are only 22 70+ foot yachts listed on Yacht World in the US and only 9 of those are <90ft. It's simply a tiny market.

I really hope they get an order, because it is a gorgeous boat and I love their design philosophy.
793 used boats between 70 and 90' in the US. Have no idea where you got your numbers.

0 (Power) Boats For Sale

261 new.

0 (Power) Boats For Sale
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:02 AM   #38
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I see 625 70-90ft power yachts on YachtWorld.com.
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:41 AM   #39
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I would think that worldwide the new construction numbers for 70ft + are much higher than that. Used numbers and sale prices are not a very good indication of demand in a market that prizes the newest and greatest thing and can afford to buy new.
You missed my point. You are starting from a small pool of buyers who want trawlers in this size. There are additional aspects that reduce the potential buyers even further. The fact that there are so few used ones for sale shows that.

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793 used boats between 70 and 90' in the US. Have no idea where you got your numbers. [/url]
I limited my search to trawlers on Yachtworld. Should have specified that, but I don't think that the number of barges in that size range is really relevant, so I limited my search to the direct competition.

Actually had a leftover $250k minimum, so my numbers were off (there are 66 at 70+ feet and 43 <90) , but the point still stands. Compared to the 30-50 foot trawlers (nearly 1000), the numbers are very small.
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:56 AM   #40
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You missed my point. You are starting from a small pool of buyers who want trawlers in this size. There are additional aspects that reduce the potential buyers even further. The fact that there are so few used ones for sale shows that.



I limited my search to trawlers on Yachtworld. Should have specified that, but I don't think that the number of barges in that size range is really relevant, so I limited my search to the direct competition.

Actually had a leftover $250k minimum, so my numbers were off (there are 66 at 70+ feet and 43 <90) , but the point still stands. Compared to the 30-50 foot trawlers (nearly 1000), the numbers are very small.
The definition of trawlers on YF isn't dependable. There are many trawler like boats and motor yachts. The boat you're talking about here probably wouldn't be listed there as a trawler. Most of the time the boats from 70-90' are not called trawlers. I didn't miss your point, your information was wrong.

And, yes, there are more 30-50' boats than 70-90' boats. That's true of all types.
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