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Old 03-07-2018, 10:09 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
1. Isn't the whole point of any internet forum to over analyze, espouse opinions and beat subjects to death ?

2. I would beg to differ as to whether they owe the public an explanation. They owe their investors their best efforts to maintain the value of the company, and I think letting negative chatter go un-answered, and not doing everything they can to maintain the value of the brand is not what their investors expected.
I don't care if they make a deadline or not. I do think they owe the public an explanation if they are doing national advertising, making it look they have a few hulls in service and out on the coast.
I wish them well! I also think a lot of that design criteria was influenced By the Late Phil Bolger on his "Advanced Fisherman project" design criteria. Original designs for
longer thinner hulls to be used by Gloucester fisherman for fuel savings. Several of the designs were outboard powered and looked just Like TT 35... built in the 1990s. See National Fisherman Sept 2004, and "Messing about in Boats" 2007 several issues. One was built and used in Gloucester as a day fishing boat but it never got any traction as a commercial venture. The family reemblance to TT35 is amazing. Just can't remember the name of the Gloucester boat, Jean something or other. Built in backyard of one of the local Fronteiro brothers..
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:22 PM   #82
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Odd that,with this thread roiling away,TT have not chimed in. Discussions like this get around.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:47 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Sailor of Fortune View Post
I don't care if they make a deadline or not. I do think they owe the public an explanation if they are doing national advertising, making it look they have a few hulls in service and out on the coast.
I wish them well! I also think a lot of that design criteria was influenced By the Late Phil Bolger on his "Advanced Fisherman project" design criteria. Original designs for
longer thinner hulls to be used by Gloucester fisherman for fuel savings. Several of the designs were outboard powered and looked just Like TT 35... built in the 1990s. See National Fisherman Sept 2004, and "Messing about in Boats" 2007 several issues. One was built and used in Gloucester as a day fishing boat but it never got any traction as a commercial venture. The family reemblance to TT35 is amazing. Just can't remember the name of the Gloucester boat, Jean something or other. Built in backyard of one of the local Fronteiro brothers..
You post prompted me to look him up, thanks. Very interesting guy.
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Old 03-08-2018, 06:44 AM   #84
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Dont overlook the fact that Mirage Manufacturing is a small "Family Business". If you call them in Gainesville Fl, one of the family will likely answer the phone, or be very close by. The people that get to spend any real time on one of their boats, will find them unique in form and fit and feel. Hopefully one of the TT35s will be at the GHTA meeting in New Bern in May giving Great Harbour owners a first look opportunity to tour the boat. I for one am looking forward to actually seeing, touching, and feeling what the boat is actually like.

Accurate critiquing of the boat (and for some) the company based on just a few pictures and what someone said is expecting too much with too little real knowledge, IMHO.

Time will tell how successful the TT35 will be, but knowing the Fickett family, I'm sure they will continue to make their mark and leave a good product in the hands of those that come aboard, as they have in the past.

I am not a Facebook guy so I looked them up on their website and read each page. Thank you for the links.
I learned some from their Wesbsite and a bit from these posts.
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Old 03-08-2018, 08:59 AM   #85
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Maybe because the TT35 is a different type of boat for them, and a relatively new market segment?

<RodSterling>Imagine if you will...</RodSterling>

Say Kenworth decided they wanted to build a unique SUV for the suburban family market. They already know how to build diesel trucks really well. How hard could it be for them to design and build that new SUV? ;-)
Respectfully, I would disagree with the analogy. They are not building every piece of the boat from the ground up, as many parts (including the engines) are purchased off the shelf. And regarding the new market segment, that might be a sales issue and not a manufacturing issue. Seems to me that the boating market has already shown that there is interest in larger, outboard powered boats.

It has been more than 2 years since they started taking production orders, yet they have only delivered 1 of the 4 initial boats? While it is true that they are not obligated to let anyone (aside from folks who have made a deposit) why there is a delay, the optics, to the outside world don't look great.

While, the boat isn't for me, I think it's a neat design and I hope it does well, AND they have a lot of happy customers, some of which I hope share their boats and travels with us on this forum!

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Old 03-08-2018, 10:03 AM   #86
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GH has 2 problems at the moment...they can't seem to get the TT35's into the water, and they have not communicated the reasons for that to the public, nor tried to implement any kind of damage control regarding the issue.
Maybe you should let it go.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:17 AM   #87
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Well, I hope that GH is using this pause to address some of the problems reported with the original hull, particularly the low cockpit deck height that lets water slosh in. Fixing that will take a significant change to the deck mold. I suspect that the boat weighs more than expected (no surprise there- maybe they believed their own marketing folks) so that the waterline is higher than expected.

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Old 03-08-2018, 02:55 PM   #88
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Not affiliated with GH. However with the constancy of tearing into them around here as often as it seems, thought it only fair to share some marketing material I just received in email...



Bon Voyage

Mariso is just days away from the water, and the start of cruising adventures.
March is an exciting month at Great Harbour, as the first two TT35s to leave the factory are poised to take their owners on cruising adventures. Jim Lowe is making final plans aboard Spirit Song for his Great Loop travels with his dog Coco. Following in their wake will be Kimberly and Jim Trombley aboard Mariso. as final cosmetic details for the boat are now begin wrapped up in anticipation of a March 15 delivery. The Trombleys plan to do a few shake down cruises in the Tampa Bay area, then head down the coast, across the Okeechobee Waterway, and north on the ICW. Look for more news of these crews in the months to come.


Who's There?
Why You Should Consider Adding AIS

The advent of radar was a major boon to maritime safety. Now, there's another set of electronic eyes available to boaters, and it can tell you a lot more than just other vessel's relative position. We're talking about AIS, which is the acronym for Automatic Identification Systems. It's been around since 2002, but only in the last couple of years has it become mandatory equipment for the majority of commercial vessels operating in U.S. Waters. Now, owners and operators of commercial vessels exceed 65 feet in length are required to operate an AIS device that provides real-time routing information and handles data exchanges with other AIS-equipped vessels and shore-based facilities.

So what does that have to do with private pleasure boats? Nothing from a regulatory standpoint, but quite a bit from an operational point of view. You aren't required to have an AIS system on board, but it can be a life saver in certain circumstances, and a significant convenience in many more.


An AIS display can show information that would not be visible on RADAR.
In simple terms, AIS uses VHF radio frequencies to share a vessel's real-time position based on GPS coordinates, and also provides additional information on the vessel's identity, type, position, course, speed, and other navigation information. In the commercial shipping world, AIS has become a primary tool for vessel routing and collision avoidance, and is also a valuable tool for accident investigation and search-and-rescue operations.


Two examples of chartplotter displays where AIS-generated information could be accessed by drilling down into embedded icons.
AIS information is typically shown as an overlay on a radar or chartplotter display. It provides an icon for every AIS-equipped vessel within VHF radio range, showing that vessel's speed, size, heading and precise GPS coordinates. A click on the screen icon may also reveal additional facts such as the vessel's name, size, and call sign, while more drill downs show things like the closest point of approach, time to closest point of approach and other navigation information.

By now, you may be thinking that AIS would be a good addition to your electronics suite, and you'd be right. These systems come in three classes. Class A is what the big ships use, and that's overkill for a private boat. Class B units provide similar functions at far less cost. Class Bs have less frequent reporting times (30 seconds vs ten) and don't transmit information such as destination, draft, rate of turn and other things that are important to port operations, but not pleasure cruises. Class C units are receive-only systems. This will tell you what's out there, but it won't the big ships know that you are also on the water.

Retrofitting an AIS receiver or transceiver to an existing electronics suite is usually a fairly straightforward process. A number of the Great Harbours have been retrofitted with AIS, and the new TT35 will include AIS capabilities in the upgraded electronics package. If you'd like to know more, you can give us a call at the shop (352-377-4146), or send an email to our in-house AIS expert, Travis Fickett.

________________________________________________

ONE PARTICULAR HARBOUR

Savannah, Georgia



Georgia's coast offers some of the last undeveloped wetlands on the US East Coast. Cruisers can immerse themselves in this landscape as they follow the twists and turns of the Intracoastal Waterway through creeks and marshes. But after a healthy dose of nature, and a few nights on the hook in the tidelands, crews are often ready to rediscover civilization. And that's when they'll want to make the six-mile detour upriver from the ICW to dock in Savannah.


Savannah's River Street District offers food, libations and shopping.

The place to be when visiting Savannah is right downtown in the River Street District. In years past, there was often space available at the City Docks, but that facility is currently closed to private boats. For walking-distance access to the city's historic waterfront, cruisers can berth at the River Street Dock or Market Place Docks. Another option just across the river is the dock at the Westin Hotel, where slip fees include access to a range of resort amenities, and complimentary water taxi to the shops and restaurants of River Street.


A few blocks inland from the river, the unique character of Savannah comes to life in the tree-lined squares that are spaced through the historic district.

Savannah knows how to party, and the city is home to one of the world's largest St. Patrick's Day Celebrations. But once the green beer stops flowing, the historic downtown returns to a state of genteel Southern charm, where locals and visitors stroll the 22 park-like squares that city founder James Oglethorpe commissioned when laying out the municipal grid.


Savannah's Ships of the Sea Maritime Museum is home to more than 80 intricate ship models, along with paintings, maritime antiques and other artifacts from the city's nautical past.
Today, Savannah is home to the largest National Historic Landmark District in the United States. Here, horse-drawn carriages roll down streets lined with antebellum architecture, and architecture and history buffs can indulge their curiosity with walking tours and museum visits. When hunger strikes, everything from haute cuisine and new-age menus to BBQ and Soul Food are within a few blocks walk, or a short pedicab ride away.

____________________________________________

Tow, Tow, Tow Your Boat

Why Moving the TT35 by Trailer Isn't Difficult

One of the key design goals of the TT35 was the ability for easy overland transport by trailer. Weight, width and hull design were all influenced by this mission parameter, and we are happy to report: Mission Accomplished. Proof came last fall when we hitched one of the first TT35s to a one-ton pickup and towed it from Florida to Annapolis, Maryland and back without incident. And this included plenty of miles mixing things up with semi trucks on I-95, and some less-than-relaxing time spent in rush-hour traffic on the DC beltway.


So far, about half of our owners want to trailer the TT35 themselves, while the other half plan to hire a service. For those doing the moving themselves, we'd like to share what we've learned about towing regulations from that first trip. First off, you'll need a permit, because the TT35's ten-foot beam is more than the standard 8'6” width permitted on US roadways. The good news is that a permit and flagging is all you will need. No chase cars or special light bars. There are slight variations in regs from state to state, but in general, plan on putting 18” x 18” red or bright orange flags on the outer corners of the boat, and in many states, adding a “WIDE LOAD” banner on back and front.


The permits come in two generally types. Most states will issue a blanket permit that is good for a year, or a one-trip permit that allows travel on a pre-specified route for a period of a few days to a week or more. We ended up with a blanket permit for our home state of Florida, since we'll probably be moving a lot of boats around locally, but we went the one-trip route for our road trip to Maryland. Being new to the process, we contacted one of the several permitting services that can be found on line. This made the process easy, and the total permitting cost for a six-state move was just over $300. Not bad, but also not chump change. So once back home, a bit of searching around the web revealed that every state DOT maintains a website page for self permitting. Had we gone that route, and devoted a bit more time to doing the filing and submitting ourselves, we could have made the same trip for $110 in actual permit fees.


For those owners who might also want to save a few bucks, and don't mind doing the legwork, we've added a towing reference page on the website that links to each state's appropriate permitting page. We also added phone numbers, because most of these same agencies have staff members who will help walk you through the process, and answer any questions. We talked with a few, and found them to be universally helpful and friendly.

____________________________________________
Nautical Nomenclature


Mariners have always been a colorful lot, speaking a language seemingly all their own. But many of the phrases that originated at sea have since made their way into the common vernacular. Here are few examples that might earn you points on trivia night.

Sailors are famous for their abilities to spin a yarn, often embellishing the facts of the tale for the sake of entertainment. Spun-yarn is actually a type of hand-made cordage once used for a variety of shipboard tasks. During down time from deck duties, crew members would sit and spin up a length of cordage, breaking up the tedium of this repetitive chore by telling tall tales.

Any restaurant would be happy to be described as “A1” in a Yelp review. The term dates back to the 1800s, and came from the Lloyds Register of British and Foreign Shipping. To settle disputes between ship owners and insurance underwriters, a grading system was devised, using letters to indicated the condition of a ship's hull, and numbers to grade the rigging and fittings. On this scale, A1 was as as good as it gets.

It's easy to feel bamboozled by all the fake new floating around these days, but the practice isn't new. The term was once used to describe the Spanish navy's custom of hoisting false flags to deceive enemy ships.


Holy Mackerel! is a pretty mild expletive by today's standards, which is appropriate considering its puritanical origins. Because mackerel spoils quickly, 17th-century English fishmongers were allowed to sell it on Sundays, which represented a contradiction to religious blue laws of the time.

When you dress to the nines for a special event, you are following nautical traditions. To celebrate naval victories, a sailing ship returning to port would dress the rigging in bunting and flags, and the crew would line up on the nine primary yardarms of the fore, main and mizzen masts.

A Minnesota winter day might seem cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey, but this expression has nothing to do with frigid primate testicles. On a man-of-war, cannon balls where piled on deck beside the gun, pyramid fashion, and retained in a brass ring known as a monkey. In very cold weather the brass ring would contract faster than the iron cannon balls, causing some to topple.

________________

The Ns Are Still A Thing


For the past year, most of our attention has been focused on the development of the TT35. Which has lead some potential customers to ask if we are still building the other Great Harbour models. The answer is yes, and no. We are still building the N 37 and N47, but no longer offer the GH 37 and 47. These legacy models do remain showcased on the website to support the used market. And by the way, our brokerage division is still the best way to buy or sell a pre-owned GH or N series boat, as we know them like no one else. If you want to know more, just give us a call at 352-377-4167 or send a note to sales@greatharbourtrawlers.com. We'll be happy to discuss build options, current pre-owned offerings and the possibility of joining the Great Harbour family.
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Old 03-08-2018, 03:02 PM   #89
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Not affiliated with GH. However with the constancy of tearing into them around here as often as it seems, thought it only fair to share some marketing material I just received in email...



.
Key Words Highlighted.

Note that hull #1 that they now say will launch on 3/15, had their sea trial on 2/1. To be specific on 2/1/2017.
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Old 03-08-2018, 03:36 PM   #90
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Key Words Highlighted.

Note that hull #1 that they now say will launch on 3/15, had their sea trial on 2/1. To be specific on 2/1/2017.
Great Harbour Facebook page says it was on 3/1/2017.
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:41 PM   #91
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I met Mr. Fickett at a boat show; very interesting guy. Although we decided a GH didn't meet all our needs i still respect them and some of their unique characteristics, such as their impressive amount of living space.
I also spent many years in the aircraft industry and my first thought on this thread is that anytime you're building a new complex system, "over-budget and behind-schedule" tends to be the norm rather than the exception; just ask all those people waiting for their Tesla model 3
Anyway I think the TT35 is an interesting design and is generating a lot of excitement. I bet they will get their production going in due time...
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Old 03-08-2018, 05:18 PM   #92
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Here's a bit of information on the TT35 and a bunch of other information on the AIS

Great Harbour Trawlers <marketing@mirage-mfg.com>
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Old 03-08-2018, 06:13 PM   #93
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Great Harbour Facebook page says it was on 3/1/2017.
ahhh...the joys of an internet forum. The point was that it was a long freaking time ago.....you want to quibble over a few days ?? Is the difference between 53 weeks and 57 weeks really that significant !?!?!?
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Old 03-08-2018, 07:31 PM   #94
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Great Harbour Facebook page says it was on 3/1/2017.
From the website:
On February 1, TT35 Hull Number One was rigged and launched for preliminary sea trials
Whether it's 12 months or 13 makes no difference to me.
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Old 03-08-2018, 07:39 PM   #95
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From the website:
On February 1, TT35 Hull Number One was rigged and launched for preliminary sea trials
Whether it's 12 months or 13 makes no difference to me.
Actually meant 3/1/2018 but now I realize we are talking about 2 different events.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:31 PM   #96
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There used to be more info on here wrt the TT35 but I hear someone complained about it being marketed on TF or sales pitch here etc.
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:42 AM   #97
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Why is it that people with much bigger and faster boats, who would never buy a TT35 anyway, even care?
Or who never bought any boat.
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:46 AM   #98
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I don't care if they make a deadline or not. I do think they owe the public an explanation if they are doing national advertising, making it look they have a few hulls in service and out on the coast.
I wish them well! I also think a lot of that design criteria was influenced By the Late Phil Bolger on his "Advanced Fisherman project" design criteria. Original designs for
longer thinner hulls to be used by Gloucester fisherman for fuel savings. Several of the designs were outboard powered and looked just Like TT 35... built in the 1990s. See National Fisherman Sept 2004, and "Messing about in Boats" 2007 several issues. One was built and used in Gloucester as a day fishing boat but it never got any traction as a commercial venture. The family reemblance to TT35 is amazing. Just can't remember the name of the Gloucester boat, Jean something or other. Built in backyard of one of the local Fronteiro brothers..
What???? No pictures? Sounds like fake news to me.
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Old 03-09-2018, 06:45 AM   #99
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This thread is amazing to me. I don't understand how folks can have such a narrow field of view and think that everything in the world should conform only to that.

[OPINION]

GH is innovating. They have been innovating for 50 years. They are a very small operation that is hands on and are continuously challenging themselves. Design errors, budget shortfalls, labor shortages, supplier delays, all are accepted as the norm in these types of businesses. That's what innovators do.

I have spent 30+ years as an engineer/innovator in the tech industry, currently struggling just the same. Shareholders? Really? What's that? We often say we are "...slitting our throats on the leading edge of technology." LOL. Do you like all that nifty wireless stuff on your smartphone? Enjoy sending your chartplotter display to a bigscreen over WiFi? Thank me and a WHOLE LOT of other innovators.

You know those cool things you love about your high-volume production boat? They were likely dreamed up by innovators. That's the only way they could make their way into your boat. Someone else has already endured the engineering costs and belittlement by the rest of the industry to make it work.

You can keep buying your cookie-cutter boats with their perfectly-annotated CAD schematics and diagrams , each with 6-digit revision control, 50-page production processes, flashy marketing campaigns, massive internet and forum presence, delivered to you exactly when they said it would. Guess what? --- here's a secret ----- there will STILL be problems.

Me? I'll would gladly work with an innovator - who pays attention to detail, sticks his neck out to try something new, focuses on what matters to the buyer not just the bottom line, and end up with a great, personalized product, just the way I want it, with features and benefits that no one else ever dreamed of. Maybe I will have to wait a bit, and I won't see it plastered on every internet forum and facebook page, but that's OK.

Maybe I'm just different.

[/OPINION]
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Old 03-09-2018, 07:20 AM   #100
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This thread is amazing to me. I don't understand how folks can have such a narrow field of view and think that everything in the world should conform only to that.



[OPINION]



GH is innovating. They have been innovating for 50 years. They are a very small operation that is hands on and are continuously challenging themselves. Design errors, budget shortfalls, labor shortages, supplier delays, all are accepted as the norm in these types of businesses. That's what innovators do.



I am an innovator in the tech industry, struggline just the same. Shareholders? Really? What's that?



You know those cool things you love about your high-volume production boat? They were likely dreamed up by innovators. That's the only way they could make their way into your boat. Someone else has already endured the engineering costs and belittlement by the rest of the industry to make it work.



You can keep buying your cookie-cutter boats with their perfectly-annotated CAD schematics and diagrams , each with 6-digit revision control, 50-page production processes, flashy marketing campaigns, massive internet and forum presence, delivered to you exactly when they said it would. Guess what? Oh, and here's a secret ----- there will STILL be problems.



Me? I'll would gladly work with an innovator - who pays attention to detail, sticks his neck out to try something new, focuses on what matters to the buyer not just the bottom line, and end up with a great, personalized product, just the way I want it, with features and benefits that no one else every dreamed of. Maybe I will have to wait a bit, and I won't see it plastered on every internet forum and facebook page, but that's OK.



Maybe I'm just different.



[/OPINION]


Well said! I would not say your different, just realistic!
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