why boat insurance sucks

[psneeld]

And with ALL THAT bragging, I mean experience, you have, by your own admission never made a bluewater crossing on a recreational boat. And they have, multiple times. I doubt your boat is as well maintained as those novice boaters you **** on.

No but I have more bluewater experience I bet in a lot of different ways...especially rescuing bluewater people who didn't have such a great voyage and knowing what they did right/wrong.


You are correct about my boat being not as well maintained. There are a lot of reasons...but knowing where I do take my boat and what things can be safely left for later (and that only comes from a lifetime of VARIED experiences)


And for the last time.... you really need to pay closer attention. I never poo pooed their idea or business. I never said they were unsafe...I also never "shi* on them other than thinking they are whining about something many know is going to be an issue with insurance.



I don't know how they really handle things and neither do people who watch their stuff but never sail with them. Heck, you know what goes on behind the scenes of every movie (without watching bloopers)?


All I did say was my impression is that no one in 6 years would be low risk in the eye of an insurance company if they keep expanding their navigation limits (as Benthic pointed out) and probably makes sense if their premiums kept rising more than they thought they should.


Bragging? just putting out the resume of experience and I did mention there is always someone like you who posts the equivalent of "so what"...


I don't think I ever said I did any of it well.....if I did I apologize...

 

[CarlF]

It's about hurricane losses - not experience.

US insurance companies have paid something like 100,000 claims in the last few years for hurricanes. That's why Pantaenius US closed down and many US companies withdrew from the Caribbean.

If you are insuring a boat that is not in the hurricane box, insurance is cheap and easy to get. If you don't have much experience you'll pay a little more but it's still easy.

But if you want to be in the hurricane box (Florida, Caribbean, Pacific) then you're going to pay double what you paid a few years ago no matter how much experience you have. I have over 30 years claim free experience owning boats over 50ft and I'm having trouble this year getting a new boat covered at a reasonable price.

Maybe this was just a bad luck few years. But I think it's the "new normal" and that climate change is behind it. Climate Change may not be causing more hurricanes but it is causing more Cat 3-5 hurricanes to come ashore. The warmer ocean waters give them more energy. It's these big storms that are driving insurance losses. The Cat 1 storms that used to be frequent rarely damage boats.

If we have a few Cat 3 or higher storms hit Florida this summer, insurance prices there will go up again - a lot.

 

[Captain DJ]

I don't think I ever said I did any of it well.....if I did I apologize...

Well PS,

I was too harsh in my response. Your experience and knowledge is amazing.
But like someone else said here, IF insurance was only permitted for folks with your level of experience, there would be no recreational boating industry (paraphrase because I am too lazy to look back and cut and past and attribute).

These folks have come a long way and what they have gone through (what we have all gone through globally) in 2020 is unlike anything that has happened before. It is just too easy to criticize and I should have been more thoughtful and respectful.

It seemed like you were trying to compare their experience with yours, and that is not fair. We all learn different things in different ways. I am only glad I have not seen the worst that can happen in passagemaking as you have. It would diminish hope. And hope is something in shorter supply thanks to the Event 201 and all that played out as practiced a few months later in 2020.

The world will never be the same.

 

[Snapdragon III]

Having recently bought a boat in Fiji, and having to get it insured to get it back to Seattle, I feel their pain. From talking to what seemed like every offshore insurance agent in the world, I got the impression that the problems I had, and likely the ones they were having, had nothing to do with the boat, or the experience of the crew. It was 99% due to turmoil in the marine insurance market place in general. I was told again and again, from about a dozen insurance agents on 3+ continents, that there is simply almost nobody that will write these policies left at the moment. I finally got insurance but it was not easy or cheap. I don't remember the exact number at the moment but I think it worked out in the end to about $7,000 for 28 days to get the boat from Fiji to Hawaii, then they dropped me, because they couldn't insure the boat once it was in the USA. I had to get a second policy for Hawaii, and the trip home to Seattle, (It was super hard to get, and required a survey) that cost $7,800.00 for a year. I got the impression that it may be a little better if your vessel is not US flagged.

 

[JLD]

Crabby pants?

Maybe, maybe just thoughts from the community (and those that can see that) that goes out on dark and stormy nights to "save" people who thought they were experienced and not from of a Youtube watcher (dreaming of adventure) calling other's "crabby pants.

Here is what is left on a USCG helo and 4 dead Coasties who were going out after an experienced sailor and Navy officer who didn't think they could last the night.

Seriously WTF?

Why do you bring dead Coasties into this discussion? It has zero to do with the question of insurance coverage.

I have nothing but the greatest respect for the men and women serving in the USCG. In addition, I always look forward to reading your posts as I can appreciate your background, experience, and knowledge.

I did not call out any individuals in my post. As a matter of fact, here is exactly what I posted, "Regarding the title, "Why Boat Insurance Sucks", some of y'all need to take off your crabby pants. It is a hook - something to draw your interest to the video. No different than a catchy title for an article or a book"

Jim

 

[psneeld]

Seriously WTF?

Why do you bring dead Coasties into this discussion? It has zero to do with the question of insurance coverage.

I have nothing but the greatest respect for the men and women serving in the USCG. In addition, I always look forward to reading your posts as I can appreciate your background, experience, and knowledge.

I did not call out any individuals in my post. As a matter of fact, here is exactly what I posted, "Regarding the title, "Why Boat Insurance Sucks", some of y'all need to take off your crabby pants. It is a hook - something to draw your interest to the video. No different than a catchy title for an article or a book"

Jim

Actually it does have a lot to do with it.

All of us make mistakes. I just have the luxury of being the boater making mistakes and a pretty good background involved with others mistakes and somewhat fixing them.

If you walked a mile in my shoes, you and others may see my points on experience in a different light.

The reference to the crashed helo was that some of us in the business see just how many people who HAVE a lot of experience, still make mistakes and others pay a high price for it. So yeah, I don't think everyone needs to be perfect for each level of boating, but it comes at a price if you make a mistake and thankfully only insurance pays the premium.

Zero to do with it? Not from where I sit.

 

[phillippeterson]

I would be careful discounting their six years of non stop cruising.

My opinion is their experience can hardly be duplicated in a lifetime of recreational boating with a set home base.

I will use myself as a direct comparison. We spend approx 70 nights at sea and have done so for over a decade. Before that maybe 30 nights at sea per year for another decade in my smaller boats.

That makes my total boating experience maybe a thousand sea days, and I think I am pretty experienced.

That is only half of the experience the Wynns have accumulated over their six years of full time cruising. 365X6 is over 2,000 sea days.

Then consider the hundreds if not thousands of different anchorages that they have set the hook in. Those anchorages have been over a HUGE geographic area encompassing many areas with different conditions. That is not even considering their several ocean crossings.

Myself I know one area really well, the area of Prince William Sound but I honestly don't know squat about other areas except for my few Washington-Alaska trips.

Nope, I would be REALLY careful minimizing their experience, as it far exceeds probablty 90% of large boat owners, myself included.

Then you have the people that seem to want to pick on them for the "showboating" way they make a living...

My dumb ass has went to work for 37 years since I got out of college and am a bit less than 12 months I get to retire. Hopefully I will have 15 or maybe if I live to 80 twenty years to enjoy myself without the tie to the office. Then this dogs day is done.

They, and others like them are living their lives in a way that many of us dream of. Yet we fault them for that. They and other you-tubers are just trying to make a living in a way that does not slave them to decades in a office.

Nope, I admire them and others for breaking away from the standard middle class lives most of us lead and doing what they enjoy.

In the final analysis I guarantee that none of us wishes we spent more time at work, and if they can figure out a way to avoid that more power to them!

Yeah, what he said.

 

[firehoser75]

Maybe I am incorrect in my thinking, but the Wynn's have more than 4+ years of full time cruising experience, crossing oceans with thousands of open ocean miles, and living aboard full time.
To obtain just the same number of "days aboard", it would take someone doing 3+ months (full time) cruising per year almost 15 years to achieve. This "local cruiser" (with 15 years) would still not have anywhere near the same "off shore" experience nor the same ocean miles compared to the Wynn's. It seems to me, that they have accumulated a good amount of "experience" (compared to most boaters) in a fairly short period of time, and that they seem to be doing it in a conscientious, "trying to do it right" manner. How does one obtain "off shore experience" while owning their own boat, without actually "doing it"? I do agree with Scott, that occasionally even experienced off shore boaters get into trouble, make mistakes, etc. They are still human after all, and I thank and respect the rescuers who risk it all to help them!
While you might debate the "whinning" aspect, I think the insurance issues discussed here have way more to do with the insurance industry in general (recent losses, company's withdrawing from the market, etc.) than with a perceived "lack of experience".

Experience is also somewhat of a relative thing. Some people have one year's experience repeated 15 times, while others have 15 years experience where they were constantly learning, improving, and evolving.
Just some thoughts on this interesting discussion.

 

[MurrayM]

Yeah, what he said.

+2

We 'adventured' before full time jobs, mortgage, or our daughters birth figuring memory banks would be more important than money banks when we got really old. We had sufficient experience to get started, then refined and expanded that knowledge along the way.

Now, a wee tangent...

...Hiking hills is a hobby, climbing Mount Everest would be the apex (if that's ones goal) of that hobby...

K2 is considered a much harder mountain. Just about any physically and financially fit bozo can get their sorry arse 'escorted' up Everest. Not so K2.

If people have some time to kill, they should watch the documentary "Meru" for an amazing glimpse into mountaineering at the highest technical level and the dedication/endurance it takes to pull it off:

 

[BruceK]

I seriously, don't understand the disdain some folks on this thread have for the Wynns and their chosen profession. ...Jim

It`s sad but simple. The Wynns exist and people have keyboards.

 

[Bud]

There is no reasoning with arrogance.

 

[Hippocampus]

Throughout this thread and others have tried to point out blue water cruising is a different skill set than coastal. It’s not about SARS, nor mechanical nor navigational skills. It’s about attitude.
I did repetitive blue water races every June from New England to Bermuda for decades. That’s not blue water cruising. I did repetitive long races just inside helicopter range. That’s not blue water cruising either.
We can play mine’s bigger than yours all day and don’t focus on what’s really relevant. The attitude is borne from one simple fact. If you didn’t bring it with you- you ain’t got it. That applies to knowledge, skills and physical items.
This forces you to think differently about everything.
So you carry 200g of water. What if the pump fails. So you bring another and have a watermaker. What if it’s too rough to replace or there’s no electricity because of a lightning strike. Or the vents take in salt water or other contamination. So you bring individual gallons of water stored low and protected from damage or contamination. Same with food. You carry sufficient non refrigerated stores and food that requires no preparation for bumpy times. Same with the medkit. It’s divided into trauma, infection, burns, shock, poisons and seasickness. Same with propulsion. Same with navigation. We carry three systems. The boats electronics, handheld electronics and old school log, weight with wax, and sexton. We have multiple fallbacks for water ingress. Multiple safety systems and train with them.
We bring the skill set to be self reliant. Read all the manuals. Crew for others. Take selected courses to understand our systems (weather, diesel, electrical etc.) and read. Constantly trying to learn. You play what if as you go through your boat until you’re satisfied risks are manageable. But in your mind is the old saw about a successful voyage.
Keep the water out.
Keep the crew in
End with as many as you started with in good health
Move toward your destination.
Arrive as friends.

No captains course nor sailing school nor course nor book nor coastal experience teaches you that attitude. There’s ten ways to do anything on a boat. Nine of them are wrong. A safe blue water cruiser knows that. Experience at blue water cruising teaches you that. Insurance recognizes that. I don’t know why the Wynns were refused. Regardless of how I feel about how they make their living they obviously learned and live by the above described attitude. So think there’s more to the story.

 

[markbarendt]

Actually it does have a lot to do with it.

All of us make mistakes. I just have the luxury of being the boater making mistakes and a pretty good background involved with others mistakes and somewhat fixing them.

If you walked a mile in my shoes, you and others may see my points on experience in a different light.

The reference to the crashed helo was that some of us in the business see just how many people who HAVE a lot of experience, still make mistakes and others pay a high price for it. So yeah, I don't think everyone needs to be perfect for each level of boating, but it comes at a price if you make a mistake and thankfully only insurance pays the premium.

Zero to do with it? Not from where I sit.

I do appreciate the risks the USCG takes on our behalf, and no disrespect is intended here, but to be blunt, you need to keep a bit of societal perspective, y’all are not alone in taking big risks on behalf of others.

I don’t want to get in a pissing contest but I spent a fair chunk of my younger life risking mine in the gas industry to keep other peoples homes warm and underground getting copper, gold, and coal and other such things to keep our society going and other people working.

I needed the work, I got to make a living, I enjoyed the experience, I made other people’s lives better. Fair deal as far as I’m concerned, I’ve had a life rich in experience.

I hope you and all those in the USCG can say the same.

 

[psneeld]

I guess what is so hard to get across is this is a boating forum.

I have been involved with boating while many have been doing something else for living, have multiple hobbies and have becoming good at something else.

I am not on a forum related to anything else but boating.

I think I know the societal perspective difference ...... every day I talk to people that are also boaters, but have spent most of their lives doing something else. Yes I know there are plenty of dangerous jobs out there, but rarely do they involve boaters in distress. Which is what I thought related to the topic at hand....and thus why for me its easy to think why someone might not be the same risk in the eyes of someone else.

 

[Hippocampus]

In this thread I’ve had some friction with PSN. Hopefully this produced more light than heat. I felt his comments were correct but not inclusive. Will use an example. On a Salty Dawg Rally i did as owner/operator the very skilled weather router misread the situation in my opinion. This resulted in turn backs, SARS calls and significant boat damages (I would think insurance claims). I interacted with the weather router and reviewed my concerns. I spoke with the rally organizers and told them I was going to leave a day and half early. They were disappointed but being experienced themselves said you’re the captain do what you think is safe. I discussed my decision with more experienced friends and they said go.

People ran in to trouble because they were paralysed by fear. It was their first real heavy weather experience. You can read all you want about heavy weather tactics but until you’ve experienced it it’s meaningless. From crewing and gradual increasing exposure to progressively increasing amounts of weather both me and my crew were functional. People were disabled by seasickness and unable to run their boats. When coastal I think as long as one isn’t sick we can get to a harbor and sort ourselves out. Offshore I think about people dying so my medkit is different. People get Mallory Weiss tears and bleed out. They puke so hard they tear the lining of their esophagus. People stop eating and drinking so get cardiac arrhythmias or dehydrated or electrolyte disturbances and die. So yes I carry scop, antihistamines, stugeron , ginger slices and various OTC aids but also carry rectal compazine, iV fluids and salt tablets. I pay attention to the performance, hydration and food intake of my crew. We saw 35-40 gusts to 45 for two watches. No illness although I asked one crew to take a preventative. Had a fun fast transit. Later found out multiple captains had left early and several late after coming to the same conclusions I’d made. Schedules kill. Safe captains know that.
It’s attitude. Insurance can see what transits you’ve made. What claims you’ve made. Who is your crew. They can’t see what your attitude is so are forced to look at these indirect measures and their claim history for similar endeavors. Cant fault them for that. PSN sees what happens when things go wrong. God bless him. I look at why things went wrong and what I can do to prevent them. The skill set, perspective and attitude is different . I know eventually if I keep doing my program there maybe a need for a PSN’s skills in the future. I hope not. But continue to believe in terms of insurance risk you could identify which boats were more risky before the rally and which were not. Still think insurance vendors could do much better job at that.

 

[JLD]

Actually it does have a lot to do with it.

All of us make mistakes. I just have the luxury of being the boater making mistakes and a pretty good background involved with others mistakes and somewhat fixing them.

If you walked a mile in my shoes, you and others may see my points on experience in a different light.

The reference to the crashed helo was that some of us in the business see just how many people who HAVE a lot of experience, still make mistakes and others pay a high price for it. So yeah, I don't think everyone needs to be perfect for each level of boating, but it comes at a price if you make a mistake and thankfully only insurance pays the premium.

Zero to do with it? Not from where I sit.

Perhaps you should be the only one who is allowed to have a boat and cruise/sail wherever you want?

I truly do appreciate your perspective on most topics that are discussed on this forum and I look forward to reading many of your posts.

Respectfully, though, some of your posts are childish. For you to post

Maybe, maybe just thoughts from the community (and those that can see that) that goes out on dark and stormy nights to "save" people who thought they were experienced and not from of a Youtube watcher (dreaming of adventure) calling other's "crabby pants.

is a perfect example, as no time in the post did I reference you.

For what its worth, I love the boating that I do and do not live vicariously through anyone else on Youtube. Maybe my boating and experiences aren't important you, but I really don't care.

Jim

 

[psneeld]

Really, how many times have I already or do I have to say I don't care what the Wynns or anyone else does. Have at it....but I am entitled to my opinion they are high risk without all the personal references people have resorted to.

But 2 things I will leave saying...the price of insurance might be higher and harder to get than the Chesapeake Bay cruiser if you want to be a world cruiser.

The price of sailing beyond ones capabilities or getting into trouble at the worst possible time for people to help you...it's on YOU. If you can't see that.....and I am childish?

Days on end I would assistance tow in really high winds. People went out in little boats with young families and never thought it was an issue till they broke down and wound up high and dry in the marsh or raging surf. They would yell at me because I took too long because of being careful not to wreck my boat or endanger them more. How come they thought I was to blame for their misfortune?

As someone posted not too long ago...who takes responsibility for what they do any more?

Want to be an adventurer? Hey go for it..... just remember the true costs involved and insurance is only a tiny part of it.

 

[MurrayM]

Judging adventurers by comparing them to the lowest common denominator an insurance company has to account for just won't work.

There is a vast difference between Joe Blow who chucks his wife & kids into their 'boat' a couple Saturdays a year and someone who's prepared for boating in areas where support is minimal.

A fellow the next street over has a 25' or so Arima and ripped the leg off his boat by going over a deadhead at full speed. This was after flooding rivers and high tides.

He was happy because his insurance covered it. I got mad (but kept my mouth shut) because my insurance premiums helped pay for his stupidity.

We all have to pay for the dumb schmucks.

That's what frustrates me about insurance.

 

[rsn48]

It`s sad but simple. The Wynn's exist and people have keyboards.

I have followed a number of vloggers and one thing they have to learn early in their Youtube existence is the number of sick folk out there who are going to make deeming an disguising comments to otherwise nice people. The first couple who talked about it were the owners of MV Freedom in one of their vlog.

Below I link you to the Evans, they bought a salvaged Beneteau sailboat and have repaired the damage themselves. Prior they lived in a van then a smaller sailboat fixing it up as well.

Anyways go to the 4:30 minute mark of this video and listen to her discuss what they have had to put up with:

People who demean, put down, are arrogant about other's position, appearance, etc in life are basically sick individuals, and I mean that literally. Why would a person of sound mind and body put people down as you will learn in the above video.

 

[BandB]

It`s sad but simple. The Wynn's exist and people have keyboards.

I have followed a number of vloggers and one thing they have to learn early in their Youtube existence is the number of sick folk out there who are going to make deeming an disguising comments to otherwise nice people. The first couple who talked about it were the owners of MV Freedom in one of their vlog.

Below I link you to the Evans, they bought a salvaged Beneteau sailboat and have repaired the damage themselves. Prior they lived in a van then a smaller sailboat fixing it up as well.

Anyways go to the 4:30 minute mark of this video and listen to her discuss what they have had to put up with:

People who demean, put down, are arrogant about other's position, appearance, etc in life are basically sick individuals, and I mean that literally. Why would a person of sound mind and body put people down as you will learn in the above video.

It's another of many reasons we remain very private. It's one thing to be attacked or ridiculed in the anonymity of an internet forum, but when you're known and visible, entirely different. Now public figures know that some of it comes with them being public. However, when it turns from professional criticism to personal attacks, it has no place in society. Not part of a civil society, but is that even what we are today? I got in a discussion one day this week when someone was declaring they were tired of seeing Chrissy Teigen's face everywhere. Well, she's one of my heroes in today's world as she's opened up on topics that so few have the nerve to do including depression and mental illness challenges from childbirth and from the pandemic. I know thousands have benefitted from her openness.

The Wynn's do it as a business. Call it an adventure if you want and perhaps it is. Perhaps adventure first but more and more business entering the equation. I hope in their minds it never becomes so much business as to take away the adventure. By going so public, they merit argument and criticism in areas such as their insurance comments. However, we can't forget they are human beings and cross to demeaning them as such. We must remember too that we really only know the actors as the moment you're on YouTube that's what you are. We don't know them as people except as they've let that part through.

Now, I think those posting in this thread have for the most part treated them fairly and discussed topics they opened up. Also fine to discuss their motives although none of us really know. I don't think there's been much personal attack here. I think the forum has primarily stayed on the right side of the line between their YouTubing and business and them personally.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: Following up hubby's posts, we've drafted books of our lives, up to volume 5. Sort of our diaries. Likely never will be published but definitely not while we're still active. I think we'd share some very personal things that would be useful to many others to read, but just not ready for the personal attacks I know would come. 1, 2 and 3 are quite interesting with sex, violence, drama, intrigue, and surprising twists. 4 is half business, half travelogue and only interesting due to the places visited. 5 is surviving a pandemic but more business oriented and it's still going because the pandemic is and has recently taken very personal turns for some of our family. 6, I have no idea. If I needed the income, would I publish? And that's where we go back to the Wynn's. The public side including it's negative aspects is necessary income for them to be able to lead the lifestyle they choose. Only they will ever know if it's worth it. They're braver than me, not in the sailing, but in the YouTubing.

 

[Hippocampus]

Agree with the gist of BandB’s post. The Wynns do it for a living. Nothing wrong with that. Some find it entertaining. It holds no interest to me but then again neither does rap. Civil behavior is civil behavior and I dislike when people aren’t civil to each other. There’s no excuse for acting that way except in response to ill civil behavior and even then rarely.

Returning to insurance and specifically insurance for passage makers. I’ve had several mandatory surveys in order to get insurance. Either an individual rider for a particular passage or so my cruising areas and behavior were covered activities. Sure you submit an application. Undoubtedly they look at your claims made , Cori, litigation history, credit score and financial resources. But even though a credentialed surveyor is mandated the survey doesn’t ask to look at what I think are keys things.
Yes, the structural elements of the vessel are assessed in detail but I’ve yet to be asked about nor needed to show safety equipment, fallback communication equipment, supplies to deal with water ingress, medical supplies and training, spares and tools aboard. Nor have I ever been interviewed by the underwriter. All communication has been via fax, scan, e or snail mail, or voice with the broker.
I understand this maybe cumbersome but would think when the sums involved and potential risks involved reach a certain point a brief interview (even if only done by the broker) would weed out the very high risk group.
I think about the Gunboat that was abandoned on her maiden voyage. Crew was the internationally recognized pinnacle of blue water sailors. On their future resumes does that event make them uninsurable? Or only at a prohibitive cost?
I think about the occasions I’ve been invited to crew and walked away because I knew the personality of the owner captain was so abrasive as to make the voyage unsafe. I think about my crew selection and who I didn’t choose and why. In all these cases a brief chat made it quite obvious who would be problematic and unsafe on passage and possibly lead to a claim or worst.
I’ve had boats surveyed after passing very stringent race requirements. A boat set up and uneventfully completing a transatlantic race surveyed to do get permission to do the all amateur and much less strenuous Marion Bermuda.
I use my judgment and interview crew before I risk my boat and life. Understand why they use formula to calculate risk and survey to judge value but still think human judgment has a place in underwriting.

 

[slowgoesit]

Let's get back on track with Insurance concerns.

All right Ladies and Gents. Lets please get back to discussing the difficulties of getting insurance. As interesting as some of the tangents have been, let's please hold any digressions for another time, or start another thread!

 

[Seevee]

Back on topic.....


So, I believe we can agree on the following:


The Wynns are not bad people, they are just adventurers in pursuit of a dream


Their PRIMARY reason for the voyager is the above, a pursuit of a dream and advanture, not as a business. The youtubes are just to afford their dream. If money making was the object, they could probably do better with each getting a 9 to 5 job at home.


Insurance is not fair. They are grouped into a pool of like people and their rates based on the losses of others. Their rates are higher largest because there have been more losses last year. Sure, experience helps, but only starting out. However, they choose to pay the high premiums because they can't afford a loss.

 

[Bud]

Back on topic.....


So, I believe we can agree on the following:


The Wynns are not bad people, they are just adventurers in pursuit of a dream


Their PRIMARY reason for the voyager is the above, a pursuit of a dream and advanture, not as a business. The youtubes are just to afford their dream. If money making was the object, they could probably do better with each getting a 9 to 5 job at home.


Insurance is not fair. They are grouped into a pool of like people and their rates based on the losses of others. Their rates are higher largest because there have been more losses last year. Sure, experience helps, but only starting out. However, they choose to pay the high premiums because they can't afford a loss.

Sounds right on to me. I will just add they are also performing a service for the people who can not cruise to see what the experience is all about and hopefully stimulate the younger generation for future cruising.

 

[Bud]

Really, how many times have I already or do I have to say I don't care what the Wynns or anyone else does. Have at it....but I am entitled to my opinion they are high risk without all the personal references people have resorted to.

But 2 things I will leave saying...the price of insurance might be higher and harder to get than the Chesapeake Bay cruiser if you want to be a world cruiser.

The price of sailing beyond ones capabilities or getting into trouble at the worst possible time for people to help you...it's on YOU. If you can't see that.....and I am childish?

Days on end I would assistance tow in really high winds. People went out in little boats with young families and never thought it was an issue till they broke down and wound up high and dry in the marsh or raging surf. They would yell at me because I took too long because of being careful not to wreck my boat or endanger them more. How come they thought I was to blame for their misfortune?

As someone posted not too long ago...who takes responsibility for what they do any more?

Want to be an adventurer? Hey go for it..... just remember the true costs involved and insurance is only a tiny part of it.

On my way in from commercial fishing in VA one day I found three kids floating a couple miles out. We picked them up and they were borderline hypothermic. They told us their parents were somewhere still out there, so I turned the boat around and headed back out with the tide. We found the parents a mile or so away hanging on to a cushion. Apparantly they were from inland area put their lake boat in water went thruogh the inlet and got swamped by a wave and the boat sank. The tide then brought them out to sea.
They stayed in touch with us through the years and would come see us occasionally. One of the daughters got married and asked if she could name her daughter after the fishing boat that saved them. Of course we agreed (it was named after my daughter).
The point i want to make is that people make mistakes and there should be consequences that is how we learn. Coast gaurd and other entities Insurance included, I believve are there so that the consequences don't have to be catastrophic and peoples lives won't be destroyed.
It is the same way with our kids we want them to learn their lessons but without loosing any limbs.

 

[slowgoesit]

Back on topic.....


So, I believe we can agree on the following:

The Wynns are not bad people, they are just adventurers in pursuit of a dream

Their PRIMARY reason for the voyager is the above, a pursuit of a dream and advanture, not as a business. The youtubes are just to afford their dream. If money making was the object, they could probably do better with each getting a 9 to 5 job at home.

Insurance is not fair. They are grouped into a pool of like people and their rates based on the losses of others. Their rates are higher largest because there have been more losses last year. Sure, experience helps, but only starting out. However, they choose to pay the high premiums because they can't afford a loss.

THANK YOU Seevee!