Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-04-2019, 11:20 PM   #1
Member
 
tomkallman's Avatar
 
City: NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug (NT40)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 10
When do you make your final payment?

Hi... I’m buying a brand new trawler from a broker on the east coast. The boat is being built in Seattle.

The Seattle manufacturer wants the final 10% payment once the boat finishes its sea trial out west. The contract between the broker and I reads that the boat will be delivered to me in Annapolis.

I’m in a “discussion” with the east coast broker because I contend that if I’m taking delivery of the boat in Annapolis I should have some kind of “hold back” until the boat is delivered to me and I’m assured everything is in good order.

What is the “standard” of the industry? I’m sure many readers have bought boats on one coast or another that were being constructed on the other side of the the country or even the world.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
__________________
Advertisement

tomkallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2019, 11:22 PM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,590
You make your final payment to the Marine Title company according to the terms and conditions of your accepted offer to purchase.

That offer is your contract.

The Marine Title company is also your impartial closing agent.
__________________

__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 12:32 AM   #3
TF Site Team
 
Insequent's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Insequent
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,652
Kevin is correct, but if possible get your own surveyor to inspect the boat before the sea trial and to be present on the sea trial. Be there yourself as well if at all possible.

Then get any defects found by the surveyor or yourself addressed by the builder before the boat ships across to the East Coast. Make sure there is insurance for any damage during that shipping as well. The key thing is that the boat has no defects before you hand over final payment.
__________________
Brian
Insequent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 06:41 AM   #4
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,565
During the commissioning phase things may well crop up. What does your purchase contract with the builder say as to commissioning location and how are issues handled? Is your East Coast broker a currently accredited, with NT in CT or MD, sales agent? As mentioned by Kevin and Brian you should have an agreed upon governing contract already in place, with closing details and payment terms clearly spelled out.
sunchaser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 07:06 AM   #5
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,029
Greetings,
I think there is a provision in various Mechanics Lien Acts that allows one to retain a percentage of monies owed for a period of time to make sure that things are as they should be. Perhaps this may apply although this is usually for a service and not necessarily for a sale.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 07:20 AM   #6
Guru
 
DavidM's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 5,255
I bought two overseas built boats in my life, one from France- a Jeanneau and the other from Canada, a Saga. I paid for the Jeanneau (100%) when it was delivered to Texas. I paid a deposit to the Saga builder and the final payment when it crossed into the US and was ultimately delivered to Annapolis.

If I were negotiating a contract from scratch I would insist on a 10% hold back until I accepted the vessel during a seatrial. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be the owner. until then The contract should say that I own any part of the boat that I had paid for. That lets me take possession of a half finished boat in case of bankruptcy if I had paid half.

But it all depends on what your contract says. I don't think that there are any provisions to hold back in law, only by contract.

David
DavidM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 07:36 AM   #7
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,565
Commissioning a new build is different than a few hour sea trial. Both are necessary but for different purposes. A really savvy commissioning group will come up with a punch list of items whether miswired receptacles or missing hinges on cupboard doors. NT's reps in CT and MD have been down the commissioning road before.

Tom Kallman, is the commissioning process well described in the current contract?
sunchaser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 10:13 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
gsholz's Avatar
 
City: PDX
Country: Northwest
Vessel Model: GB 52 Europa
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 314
Personally, after the builder finished the commissioning process in Seattle, I'd insist on a local 2-3 day shake-down cruise. You'll surely find things that the standard process missed. Much easier to get them fixed properly before the boat leaves for the East Coast.
gsholz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 11:18 AM   #9
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,548
Welcome.

For me (I have no experience in this matter) final payment would be due once delivered and accepted by the buyer and once a survey is completed on the east coast.
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 02:19 PM   #10
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,252
Suggestion, back it down in a reasonable tight circle to check the transmission and both the shaft and rudder seal. Watch the both the engine and transmission temp.
__________________
Did Noah have a get home-engine?
Which weather app did Noah and Columbus use?
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 02:53 PM   #11
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 18,548
We had a sea trial and survey and made final payment after them.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 04:30 PM   #12
Guru
 
Pete Meisinger's Avatar
 
City: Oconto, WI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,126
When you buy a boat, there is no final payment. You just keep paying and paying and paying.

pete
Pete Meisinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2019, 09:14 AM   #13
TF Site Team
 
City: Westerly, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,153
I used to deal with the concept of transfer of ownership quite a bit in a previous career.

Who is delivering the boat from the manufacturer to the buyer?

That shipping company is either the agent of the sellor, or the agent of the buyer.

If the shipping company is the agent of the buyer, then the shipping company is taking possession on your behalf at the time of pickup.

If the shipping company is an agent of the seller, then the transfer of ownership occurs at the time of delivery to the buyer.

The concept of possession and ownership are mutually exclusive. The shipping company may posses the product (and assume some liability during transit), but either the seller or the buyer actually owns it.

It depends on the terms of the sale and the terms of shipping.
Shrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2019, 09:26 AM   #14
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete meisinger View Post
when you buy a boat, there is no final payment. You just keep paying and paying and paying.

Pete

we have a winner!!!!!
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 08:37 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Bkay's Avatar
 
City: Reedville, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Wingspan
Vessel Model: Scott Jutson Designed Catamaran
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 376
I agree with the comments that the contract dictates. But I see the logic in the builder requiring final payment when you "accept the vessel". That is done after sea trial and when any noted deficiencies are corrected. After you accept the vessel, they will prepare it for shipment. If there are any damages during shipping, that would be a separate claim.

I'd say you can't expect the builder to ship a boat to you when you have not accepted that all the work is done. What happens if you get it on the opposite coast and say "there's too much vibration" or you find some other defect. At that point they have to ship it back, or send a crew to correct something that may not have been a construction defect.

I'd think paying upon acceptance at the builder's yard, then a separate delivery contract with insurance is logical.
Bkay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 09:18 AM   #16
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bkay View Post
I agree with the comments that the contract dictates. But I see the logic in the builder requiring final payment when you "accept the vessel". That is done after sea trial and when any noted deficiencies are corrected. After you accept the vessel, they will prepare it for shipment. If there are any damages during shipping, that would be a separate claim.

I'd say you can't expect the builder to ship a boat to you when you have not accepted that all the work is done. What happens if you get it on the opposite coast and say "there's too much vibration" or you find some other defect. At that point they have to ship it back, or send a crew to correct something that may not have been a construction defect.

I'd think paying upon acceptance at the builder's yard, then a separate delivery contract with insurance is logical.
Or secure outside financing.
Either way, only logical.

Boat builders either wont or are very reluctant to send a crew to the opposite coast.
A lot of time totally lost to the yard even if you are willing to pay time to fly over and back plus hotel and food plus parts and labor to correct a problem.
The workers could work on 2 or 3 or more boats during the "lost time" to flying.
The labor costs would be the killer.
Chances are, the builder can suggest a local yard and or craftsmen to work through your problems.
__________________
Did Noah have a get home-engine?
Which weather app did Noah and Columbus use?
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 11:36 AM   #17
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 18,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomkallman View Post
Hi... I’m buying a brand new trawler from a broker on the east coast. The boat is being built in Seattle.

The Seattle manufacturer wants the final 10% payment once the boat finishes its sea trial out west. The contract between the broker and I reads that the boat will be delivered to me in Annapolis.

I’m in a “discussion” with the east coast broker because I contend that if I’m taking delivery of the boat in Annapolis I should have some kind of “hold back” until the boat is delivered to me and I’m assured everything is in good order.

What is the “standard” of the industry? I’m sure many readers have bought boats on one coast or another that were being constructed on the other side of the the country or even the world.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
A couple of questions and comments. Is the boat being completed in Seattle, meaning all equipment and no remaining commissioning to be done on the East Coast? i ask because in my mind, it's not complete until it's ready for you as a customer.

If all is being done on the West Coast, then I think you should go there for the sea trial and the survey and a shake down cruise. Then get everything fixed, the punch list taken care of, before shipping to the East Coast.

Allows you to get some west coast cruising in too but the biggest thing is to find any issues where the factory can still address them, not depending on some broker or dealer to do so.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 12:26 PM   #18
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,252
Is there a reason you cannot go to the west coast for the sea trial/survey and 'corrections' and then another survey and sea trial?
__________________
Did Noah have a get home-engine?
Which weather app did Noah and Columbus use?
OldDan1943 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2020, 11:51 PM   #19
Guru
 
oscar's Avatar
 
City: Bethlehem, PA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Lady Kay V
Vessel Model: Don't know yet.....
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 697
I love all the "I would blah blah blah....."

To the OP, there's a few people above that actually have some knowledge of the law and highlight the LEGAL aspect of it all. Those are the people that you need to listen to.

If you want "blah blah" it better be in the contract.
__________________
22' Starcraft resto mod project: https://ladykay.blog/ Avatar is my first boat....Holland, 1965 ish.....
oscar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 03:36 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Mark P's Avatar
 
City: Hilton Head Island
Country: United States
Vessel Model: Sea Ray 2017 280 SLX
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 186
Finally, another post on which I can provide some marginal thoughts. The contract is the document to read - this controls above all else. When I bought my new boat a couple of years ago, the contract stipulated that "title and ownership" passed to me at the "dealer's location on the Closing Date" - that is when I paid the last payment on making the boat (like the earlier post said, there is no final payment!). The dealer arranged trucking the beast to Hilton Head, but I was named as the "additional insured" (or loss payee, if you will) on the trucker's insurance on the boat while it was on the tractor trailer running it to Hilton Head. I got a copy of that document before we closed. So in your case, if all else checks out, your biggest risk is loss in transit. For belts and suspenders, I also had my Geico Marine Policy in place before we Closed and it covered transit by third parties post-closing so I was super covered. You should, as well, from your insurance company since you are going to be hauling it quite a ways. I can't comment on sea trials and repairs since I don't know much about that.
__________________

Mark P is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×