USCG Safety Inspection and California

[catalinajack]

As for the locking device, I just put a key switch in series with the macerator switch. Just make sure the key is not in the switch underway!

A zip tie complies with the regs. No need for exotic "fixes". I once had a CG inspection, not an auxiliary, and was questioned about why my overboard discharge through hull was not locked out in some fashion. I demonstrated how my old-style Groco rubber cone type valve is locked in place with a t-handle to screw down the valve innards. In any case, zip ties are acceptable. The regulation in my opinion is wildly ridiculous. A zip tie can be cut and replaced in seconds. A key switch can turn on the discharge pump in seconds. Comply we must and do.

 

[rslifkin]

A zip tie complies with the regs. No need for exotic "fixes". I once had a CG inspection, not an auxiliary, and was questioned about why my overboard discharge through hull was not locked out in some fashion. I demonstrated how my old-style Groco rubber cone type valve is locked in place with a t-handle to screw down the valve innards. In any case, zip ties are acceptable. The regulation in my opinion is wildly ridiculous. A zip tie can be cut and replaced in seconds. A key switch can turn on the discharge pump in seconds. Comply we must and do.

As far as I know, that regulation is more about preventing accidental discharge. Basically, if it takes multiple distinct actions to discharge, then it would have to be deliberate, there's no "oops, I left the valve open".

 

[dhays]

I have the discharge through-hull closed and the handle removed. I also put a small zip tie through a breaker switch guard so it can't be opened. On those rare times when I am outside US waters and in an area where discharge is legal (ie hardly ever) I replace the handle and cut the zip tie. Then before returning to US waters I remove the handle and install another zip tie.

 

[danderer]

As far as I know, that regulation is more about preventing accidental discharge. Basically, if it takes multiple distinct actions to discharge, then it would have to be deliberate, there's no "oops, I left the valve open".

Now why would you say something like this? You do realize, don't you, that putting issues in context as you have will make it harder for some to rail again <insert group/nationality/vocation here>.

 

[sbman]

Now why would you say something like this? You do realize, don't you, that putting issues in context as you have will make it harder for some to rail again <insert group/nationality/vocation here>.

I had thought that since these requirements are so common that there were simple ways to spend money and solve them with a nice tidy solution. I was asking about and looking for suggestions on solutions to comply. (aside from the sticker thing). I thought maybe you could just go buy XYZ valve and it has an incorporated lock.

I understand that a zip tie complies and is an option. Someone else mentioned safety wire, that would also work. The handle on my valve is not removable so removing the valve doesn't work for me.

What didn't occur to me is that it's so controversial to discuss compliance with regulations and the the resulting commentary that would ensue.

 

[High Wire]

Well, I stand corrected, my apologies for the wrong terms and discussing options for a sticker rule that is plainly silly.

I can get how some come here and feel like this is an unwelcome environment for any sort of dissent against the 'norm'. Blindly following rules that don't make sense without some pushing back on the authorities that create the offending rules leads to more and more of the same which in the end leads to being so caught up in the minutia of things that don't matter that it's impossible to focus on what does matter.

I'll put this to rest now and if the mods could please close this thread I'd appreciate it.

SBMAN. As a 27 year member of the USCGAux I've heard VSC's (and Courtesy Marine Examinations before that) incorrectly called "inspections" for many years by the public. Since the thread title contained USCG Inspection and it technically was not, I just wanted to clarify for future readers of this thread. I apologize if my post was offensive to you. It was not my intention.

FWIW, I think the CO decal at the exhaust outlet is dumb rulemaking as well. Just like the oil discharge placard in the engine room and the trash placard and...

 

[Alaskaflyer]

There are plenty of people that still do not recognize the danger of CO, period, or the cumulative effects of exposure over time, even in open air but near exhaust ports. As an example we are still asphyxiating wakeboarders and other towed sports enthusiasts who are tied up tight to the stern of boats to perform tricks in a certain style, twenty or more years after becoming aware as a community of that specific situational hazard. Whether a warning placard will prevent an accident is open to opinion I suppose. My opinion is that it has, from the thirty-thousand foot perspective. But diesels (properly adjusted) generate so many less PPM that I agree that a one-size approach probably isn't called for.

 

[sbman]

There are plenty of people that still do not recognize the danger of CO, period, or the cumulative effects of exposure over time, even in open air but near exhaust ports. ... My opinion is that it has, from the thirty-thousand foot perspective. But diesels (properly adjusted) generate so many less PPM that I agree that a one-size approach probably isn't called for.

That's what I'm getting at. Perhaps instructing owners of large diesel powered vessels to discuss this issue as part of their passenger briefing would have more impact and provide more awareness than a sticker. I don't in any way discount the danger, but I do question the poor implementation by my particular state.

All of the items on the Coast Guard Auxiliary Vessel Safety Check form are well thought out, well executed and directly address a specific issue with an actionable, effective task. These items have exclusions for vessels on which they do not apply.

I'm really curious what new boats do for the overboard discharge valve lockout, are there owners of any new boats that address this?

I like the option of a electrical key lockout on the macerator switch, I could add that to the little placard I currently have that has the switch mounted on it.

SBMAN. As a 27 year member of the USCGAux I've heard VSC's (and Courtesy Marine Examinations before that) incorrectly called "inspections" for many years by the public. Since the thread title contained USCG Inspection and it technically was not, I just wanted to clarify for future readers of this thread. I apologize if my post was offensive to you. It was not my intention.

I understand that and I appreciate the clarification. After some of the other posters comments I read yours in the wrong context. I'm unable to change the thread title.

For those that get 'he doesn't want to comply with anything' from this thread, you've misread it.

After four years of toiling away, hour after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month in a dusty dirty boat yard, my final action before launching will be to affix the CA compliant CO poisoning sticker at my helm station.

 

[markpierce]

California is a 'world unto itself.' They are always looking for more ways to tax boaters and boats.
Either comply or stay out of the state. IMO, they are totally f**ked up.
Perhaps, another reason to live on the the east coast???

Why the State of California hasn't required USCG documented boats to be also subject to registration fees is beyond me. Still, boats are subject to property taxes like every other home except for "mobile homes."

 

[High Wire]

The USCGAux Vessel Examiner will supply Oil Pollution decals and Trash disposal decals if requested for free. He might also have the CO decals. Since its a state requirement and not federal, not sure. His phone number should be on the VSC form and I'm sure will tell you where you can get them if not from him.

 

[OldDan1943]

Why the State of California hasn't required USCG documented boats to be also subject to registration fees is beyond me. Still, boats are subject to property taxes like every other home except for "mobile homes."

I suspect it is an oversight on their part. If they could figure out a way to tax recreational boater without involving taxing the commercial interest.
Let's hope a representative from Calif govt is not reading this blog.

 

[Bacchus]

Why the State of California hasn't required USCG documented boats to be also subject to registration fees is beyond me. Still, boats are subject to property taxes like every other home except for "mobile homes."

In most states that require "registration" of documented vessels its not about registration fees but rather is about collecting sales tax on every sale / resale where the big $$$ are.

 

[bligh]

I had a coast guard safety inspection, part of my prep to launch the boat after a major refit. Most things were fine with a couple of exceptions.

Firstly, they want a locking device on the overboard black water discharge. I knew about this, but with the valve I've got, a zip tie is the only option. Does anyone have something more elegant that they use for this?

Second, they want the coast guard documentation number 'permanently attached' to the boat. It also has to be a very specific format, consisting of : 'No. 123456' . He suggested I place numbers on a bulkhead and epoxy over it. I really don't like that solution, the epoxy will yellow over time and look like crap. I understand the reasoning but I'd like a more elegant solution.

Third. A California nanny law. Evidently I am required to have an ugly and quite large CO warning sticker at the helm, and also one by each exhaust outlet. I really don't want to put this at the helm, does anyone have a solution for this one? What have you done to comply with this? Where would I find the actual regulation for this, I'm hoping there's some kind of exception for larger boats. What person in their right mind would swim anywhere near a rumbling detroit diesel exhaust tube? It's not like this is a small boat where swimmers are expected regularly.

Here are the stickers I'm expected to apply:

For the documentation number, just get the number carved on a piece of wood and screw it to a bulkhead somewhere. Screwed on is permanent enough that they will pass it .


Years ago, on wooden boats, the number was carved into part of the boats framing. Nowadays, not so much. Mine is screwed on and passed the inspection fine. (in CA)

 

[bligh]

There are a lot of stupid laws and regulations. If you are employed, your employer will have rules you deep stupid. Just comply. I am sorry but I find your attitude as expressed here as disturbing as GFC indicates. The rest of us choose to follow the rules and don't go on a long rant about stickers. Please reconsider what you find important in regards to safely boating.

Please post pictures of all the CO warning stickers at all the helms on all your boats.

 

[OldDan1943]

Thanks to the media, years ago they showed "how to" and now the young folks like to hang off the stern to ride the wake. (natural selection)

 

[Art]

Stencil of #'s and letters... indelible black or blue magic marker a few times over applied.

 

[Trimjb]

https://vesselplacards.com/

 

[Sailmate]

Used a Sharpie.

On my 36ft sailboat, I had used a sharpie to write the documentation number on the inside wall of the hull which was inside a storage locker. I was boarded once for inspection (in CA) and passed without incident.

 

[Bacchus]

For the documentation number, just get the number carved on a piece of wood and screw it to a bulkhead somewhere. Screwed on is permanent enough that they will pass it .


Years ago, on wooden boats, the number was carved into part of the boats framing. Nowadays, not so much. Mine is screwed on and passed the inspection fine. (in CA)

Some /most? vessel safety examiners will not pass a Doc # placard simply screwed in place... I won't, but it is easy to add some epoxy to the backside before screwing in place and its is then considered "permanent". Stick or or painted #s are acceptable if coated over with resin.
The location is another issue for some examiners as they have been given misinformation re acceptable locations. I have had an inspector tell me the "in plain sight" means it has to visible from the helm/saloon area... not so. Inside engine room affixed tothe hull / structural member is acceptable. Affixed to a REMOVABLE bulkhead is NOT.
The same holds true for state registration #s...
Many folks don't like to affix them to the boat and place them on a placard the sit in a window or attach to a rail with wire ties or a cable clamp. They don't satisfy the "permanently attached" requirement and will frequently fail a USPS/ USCGAux vessel safety check.
I won't say none will pass either of the above but if done correctly per the regs they should be failed.
The examiners are all volunteers and are trained by other volunteers so there is the possibilty for different but incorrect interpretations.

 

[Shrew]

So many thinks, I don't want to post a wall of quotes, so.....if you've read all the posts in this thread so far this should make sense.

Diesel still emits CO, this shouldn't be confused with being combustible. (Gasoline is flammable, but diesel is combustible). Therefore CO warnings are still necessary for diesel vessels.

There was an argument of 'who would swim around a running diesel engine'? The answer is MANY people. It is not limited to main(s), but also the auxiliary (generator). There was a time when portable generators just weren't a thing. Folks would run their engine(s) to recharge batteries. Solar, turbine, onboard and portable generators have changed that. The warning to to ensure people aren't swimming while the engine or generator is recharging the batteries.

There used to be a thing called 'Teak Surfing' where people would drag kids around as they hung onto the swim platform (back then swim platforms were alternating strips of teak boards and spacers, making easy handholds.

There was a question of "How hard is it to educate people"? Well yes, but who educates the educator? People do amazingly stupid things, then claim ignorance as a defense. It's the same reason there are stickers on your lawnmower warning you not to stick your hand in the discharge chute. You would assume that a 'reasonable' person would not need to be warned of such a thing. Yet.....there they are.

The purpose of the documentation number being permanently mounted is so that the CG can verify the accuracy of the paperwork. Think of the old James Bond Aston Martin with the license plate that would flip to change numbers. Usually people router the numbers into a piece of wood and seal the wood to keep it from rotting, then mount the number board in the engine compartment. Marine varnish won't yellow. Epoxy won't yellow if it's not exposed to UV.

 

[sbman]

...

You would assume that a 'reasonable' person would not need to be warned of such a thing. Yet.....there they are.

... then mount the number board in the engine compartment.

Shrew,

Thank you for the well thought out response. I'm afraid the sticker thing devolves into politics very quickly. I believe people should be personally responsible for their actions, not all share that opinion. Education of risks and training for owners of devices that can be dangerous are great things. A plethora of stickers to 'CYA' not so much. Enough about that.

I am having a number board routed and will be affixing it to the hull with epoxy.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Teak surfing is still very much a thing, though fortunately much less common that it was, but as I mentioned, people are still getting sick and suffering near drownings and drownings secondary to CO poisoning.

 

[OldDan1943]

Do not forget the station wagon effect too.

 

[SoWhat]

GFC:

There is one item I don't want to comply with, because it's stupid.

I have an aviation background. It's absolutely a safety focused endeavor, I treat boating just the same. However, we rarely have to pay lip service to some dumb legislation that is poorly written with an implementation is not achieving the stated goal.

I agree. It is stupid and I don't obey stupid.

Note that the regs are only applicable when "When a new or used motorized vessel is sold in California," and also note that DMV 'shall' insert warning stickers into the"... registration renewal materials mailed by the Department of Motor Vehicles to vessel owners..." I would contest any citation.

I would rather be a passenger on your boat than be a passenger with someone who blindly obeys all gov. mandates even though they are disconnected from common sense.

 

[kthoennes]

Like I tell my brother in LA all the time, I don't know how any of you live in California.

 

[Shrew]

The recommendations were from the USCG-Aux. USCG doesn't enforce State regulations. They only enforce Federal (USCG) regulations. If the USCG/USCG-Aux. is making the recommendation, it has absolutely nothing to due with the state of California. That isn't saying that CA. doesn't have a parallel regulation at the state level. I'm simply trying to clarify where the jurisdictions end.

 

[Comodave]

The CG Aux does inform the boater about state laws as part of the vessel safety check. I am not up on California state law so I can’t comment on the sticker recommendation but if the vessel examiner is saying that it is a California requirement then it probably is.

 

[sbman]

This thread just won't die. The Auxiliary let me know about the sticker requirement and in order to obtain a sticker that I can put on my window saying that I passed a CG Aux VSC, then I need them applied to my boat. The VSC process does not result in fines, they just inform and educate you on the requirements. If by their analysis you meet all the requirements, they give you a sticker to put on the boat.

I'm required to comply with all items included on the VSC checklist and get a sticker to comply with my moorage agreement requirements. So I will be stickerizing the boat up to CA standards. I have to say, I've learned more about CO poisoning that I would have otherwise.

I've decided to epoxy a number plate to a bulkhead for the numbering. I like that approach for the numbers.

 

[High Wire]

The CG Aux does inform the boater about state laws as part of the vessel safety check. I am not up on California state law so I can’t comment on the sticker recommendation but if the vessel examiner is saying that it is a California requirement then it probably is.

Agree. We used to have an Info Only handout for the differences between NJ, Delaware, and PA state rules. For example Delaware requires a line attached to a Type IV device, not NJ or PA.