Trying to purchase a boat is a joke!!

[GrandWood]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

....I confess to a bit of hyperbole on the 50mm rounds. Probably guilty of it with the ratio of 1m woodies sunk to every 1-single fiberglass boat sunk due to blisters (though probably not off by more than an order of magnitude).

Yes, the resin changes were supposedly important to their demise. Steve D often references a very old piece of research. In all candor Psneeld - you seem to know more about blisters and hydrolysis than most. Willards have their issues with Blisters (and I also owned a 1975 Uniflite 42 ACMY, a good boat) so I know a bit more than average, but that's it.

Wood boats have their place. But the OP seeks one because they're cheap and he believes he has the skills to keep it going. Given all the other stuff he's contemplating, and adding a few bucks to his budget and consider fiberglass, his potential pool would greatly expand.

Peter

I have been looking at many of the different Taiwanese trawlers and most don’t have the layout of a GB, I especially don’t like the galley that goes down the entire side of the saloon, I dont care for the GBs that dont have the Ozzie and Harriet aft cabin or the port bench seat, I want those in a boat. And most I’ve seen even above my price range are leaky pigs.

Just not for me, I don’t like um, I really don’t like the newer GBs, not interested in a queen aft cabin, or any boat that has that in the aft cabin. I want two bunks, I want the convertible settee in the saloon, and a vberth that’s will convert to a double.

Another thing that deters me is the replacement of the fridge, I really like the old nostalgic looking wood door on the GBs, with that door handle. Reminds me so much of the butcher shop I used to clean in the local store when I was a kid.

Newer fiberglass boats remind me of a camper/RV, cheap coverings, cold, and just dont have a boat feel to um. The more teak in the interior the better.

Like the 70s GB50, the full center hallway with all the accommodations below, reminds me of a ocean liner of old, that’s what I’m interested in, all the wood high gloss finish is so sweet. Any GB I get hold of the entire headliner is coming out and replaced with high gloss wood, the beams and trims same.

A guy likes what he likes

[Simi 60]

I reckon its COVID

Prior to covid I tried to sell my half built 50ft cat for several months
Plenty of tire kickers, plenty of time wasted and stupid offers - gave it up as a bad joke and forgot about it

Go out to a few weeks ago, try again, same method of sale, same price but this time I treated them mean.
3 photos provided - no more info unless jumping through my hoops

Online I asked......
Have you got a site to move it to?
Have you thought of transportation?
What boat building experience have you got or have you a boatbuilder lined up?

Cant answer that and they were out.
Those that could got a google docs link with more info.

Those who came back still interested got my number for a further chat but could only contact me via whatsapp (we are cruising out of mobile range)

Prepared to jump through those hoops and want to continue I let them arrange a time with our tenant renting the house where the boat is to arrange a viewing time that suited him.

From that I had a couple of guys in the immediate area
A guy come up from Melbourne 1700klm away
A skipper on a superyacht in the Galapagos do a patchy back and forth and had someone lined up local to inspect who called trying to arrange a visit
Another had tickets booked coming down from Cairns 1000klm north of us

But sold to a guy for full ask all done and dusted within 2 weeks of running add.

Feel like I sold her too cheap but got my outlay back and glad to move on.

[Peter B]

Originally Posted by GrandWood

It must be that there are a ton of looky loos out here, because I cant get a single broker that has a boat I’d be interested in to answer the most basic questions, I leave my email, my phone number and nothing.

I’m sure if I was sitting in Seattle looking at boats in person I might get a better response, but im currently in colorado, I’m not traveling clear to Seattle to look at a boat and with in 10 mins I’m not interested.

Just seems unbelievable that these so called brokers listing a boat, especially one that’s been for sale now over a year, don’t reply, is the market that good for old GB woodies?

Even private sellers don’t seem all that interested in answering questions, providing current pictures, or anything.

Why list a boat with pictures from 2020, and do you really expect to sell your boat with 10 pics, from days gone past. Just so freaking frustrating.

I’m to the point of just giving up on the dream of retiring to a live aboard, and buying a dang RV.

The whole boat purchasing scene is so lame I’m put off, and getting to the point I don’t trust anyone, it’s like there all hiding something trying to sell a POS.

Don't just give up. Go lurk around some marinas - even if you have to travel a bit to reach some. They will usually have a boat sales there with some boats you can look over. Also, get chatting with owners down simply messing about in their boat, (like Ratty). They just love to talk about their craft, and will probably insist on showing you over their baby. Then you go from there.

[GrandWood]

Originally Posted by Peter B

Don't just give up. Go lurk around some marinas - even if you have to travel a bit to reach some. They will usually have a boat sales there with some boats you can look over. Also, get chatting with owners down simply messing about in their boat, (like Ratty). They just love to talk about their craft, and will probably insist on showing you over their baby. Then you go from there.

After all the help everyone’s provided, I’m just going to wait till I have everything squared away here, we are looking for a classC RV for the wife, need to be outta the home end of April, then I’ll head up to Seattle in the RV and go from there. My thought was this would be a really good time of the year to get a better deal, haul out for bottom paint, and whatever else needed done and be on the water by spring.

It’s like the tug that was recommended earlier in the thread, sent the guy my email and phone number, and no response, boat still listed. So it does seem I need to be right there to make any kind of contact.

No big deal, few more months

[sunchaser]

Originally Posted by GrandWood

After all the help everyone’s provided, I’m just going to wait till I have everything squared away here, we are looking for a classC RV for the wife, need to be outta the home end of April, then I’ll head up to Seattle in the RV and go from there. My thought was this would be a really good time of the year to get a better deal, haul out for bottom paint, and whatever else needed done and be on the water by spring.

It’s like the tug that was recommended earlier in the thread, sent the guy my email and phone number, and no response, boat still listed. So it does seem I need to be right there to make any kind of contact.

No big deal, few more months

GW
From a sellers standpoint it is pretty easy to assess the serious buyers. From your post above it doesn't seem you were 100% ready to go. If that was sensed by the seller then feedback from them would likely be tepid at best. For your next foray suggest you have a check ready to written, boots on the ground, a place to move the boat to and an easily sensed 100% outward commitment.

[GrandWood]

Originally Posted by sunchaser

GW
From a sellers standpoint it is pretty easy to assess the serious buyers. From your post above it doesn't seem you were 100% ready to go. If that was sensed by the seller then feedback from them would likely be tepid at best. For your next foray suggest you have a check ready to written, boots on the ground, a place to move the boat to and an easily sensed 100% outward commitment.

Yes, I think me being right there, being able to walk thru boats and not having to try and get pics, questions answered online will be a better experience.

I’ve sold a lot of vehicles I’ve built over the years, and I know how much time you waste on dreamers. Personally I always tried to answer everyone’s inquiries, but I was just selling one car at a time, imagine it’s a lot for a broker to deal with, even a private seller.

[Nick14]

Originally Posted by sunchaser

GW
From a sellers standpoint it is pretty easy to assess the serious buyers. From your post above it doesn't seem you were 100% ready to go. If that was sensed by the seller then feedback from them would likely be tepid at best. For your next foray suggest you have a check ready to written, boots on the ground, a place to move the boat to and an easily sensed 100% outward commitment.

Of course no one wants to waste time on those who are not serious, whether you're on the selling or buying side. Many of us have had enough headaches, on both sides, dealing with things like craigslist to swear it off for life. But it can be a matter of judgement and personal opinion as to what one considers 'serious.'

During the peak of the pandemic insanity fueled seller's market, I was advised that what a 'serious' buyer needed to do in order to earn a broker's attention was -

1. Ask no questions. Period. Questions about a boat were just not allowed.

2. Make an offer sight unseen. For no less than full asking price, and usually more.

3. Offer must have an escalation clause to automatically outbid other offers.

4. Offer to be cash and not have any financial contingencies.

5. Ask questions only of the surveyor (or, contradictorily, to make an offer without a survey contingency).

6. Close within 14 days.

7. Ask no questions, because I was told a buyer who asked 'questions' was automatically labelled as 'not serious.'

In other words, a 'serious' buyer had to bend down, grab their ankles, say 'thank you sir, may I please have more?', and hand over their wallet and say 'help yourself.'

It was this kind of attitude and reception from the majority of (though not all) brokers I dealt with that resulted in my buying a new boat. For about twice the money I was originally planning to spend on a used boat (but it seemed that wasn't enough for me to be assessed as 'serious' because I committed the unforgivable transgression of trying to ask questions before committing to buy a boat for a six-figure price).

During the past couple of years of market craziness, I don't know if it was so much sellers trying to assess who was 'serious' as it was who was a naive or desperate sucker, and thus easy and quick money.

Of course market conditions of demand exceeding supply drive up prices. That's understandable and expected. But hot markets don't also require rudeness and discourtesy.

It's anyone's guess what the boat market will do in the future, except most bets are for a cooling off, to some degree. It will be interesting to see if basic civility returns. But for me, there's now a long list of people I will never do business with, and a shorter list of people I admire, appreciate, and would always welcome the privilege of working with. Short term greed might have made a few extra bucks, but I hope the long term favors those who maintained a sense of decency and ethics despite the craziness.

Even if someone was just in the early looking stage, as Malcom Forbes said, “You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.”

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Nick14

Of course no one wants to waste time on those who are not serious, whether you're on the selling or buying side. Many of us have had enough headaches, on both sides, dealing with things like craigslist to swear it off for life. But it can be a matter of judgement and personal opinion as to what one considers 'serious.'

During the peak of the pandemic insanity fueled seller's market, I was advised that what a 'serious' buyer needed to do in order to earn a broker's attention was -

1. Ask no questions. Period. Questions about a boat were just not allowed.

2. Make an offer sight unseen. For no less than full asking price, and usually more.

3. Offer must have an escalation clause to automatically outbid other offers.

4. Offer to be cash and not have any financial contingencies.

5. Ask questions only of the surveyor (or, contradictorily, to make an offer without a survey contingency).

6. Close within 14 days.

7. Ask no questions, because I was told a buyer who asked 'questions' was automatically labelled as 'not serious.'

In other words, a 'serious' buyer had to bend down, grab their ankles, say 'thank you sir, may I please have more?', and hand over their wallet and say 'help yourself.'

It was this kind of attitude and reception from the majority of (though not all) brokers I dealt with that resulted in my buying a new boat. For about twice the money I was originally planning to spend on a used boat (but it seemed that wasn't enough for me to be assessed as 'serious' because I committed the unforgivable transgression of trying to ask questions before committing to buy a boat for a six-figure price).

During the past couple of years of market craziness, I don't know if it was so much sellers trying to assess who was 'serious' as it was who was a naive or desperate sucker, and thus easy and quick money.

Of course market conditions of demand exceeding supply drive up prices. That's understandable and expected. But hot markets don't also require rudeness and discourtesy.

It's anyone's guess what the boat market will do in the future, except most bets are for a cooling off, to some degree. It will be interesting to see if basic civility returns. But for me, there's now a long list of people I will never do business with, and a shorter list of people I admire, appreciate, and would always welcome the privilege of working with. Short term greed might have made a few extra bucks, but I hope the long term favors those who maintained a sense of decency and ethics despite the craziness.

Even if someone was just in the early looking stage, as Malcom Forbes said, “You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.”

Depends on which end of the boat market you wete interested in back then. Normal times are a bit more evened out.

[Spinner]

Spending some time in the PNW before you buy is a good idea!

Check out the possible anchorages. There aren’t that many in the Seattle area and regulations require you to move your boat after 10? days 30 days?

As Tiltrider mentioned, fall and winter winds make hanging out on an anchor problematic.

[Squidward]

Have you tried La Conner Yacht Sales? Back when the border was closed, we bought our boat remotely from them. They were responsive, and the sales lady happily did a video tour of the boat for us. She even described the smell (I thought that was going a step above). And long after the sale was complete, and I came down to get the boat, she insisted on picking me up from the car rental place (it was a complicated journey lol).

Anyway, I hope you don't give up on the dream.

[GrandWood]

Originally Posted by Squidward

Have you tried La Conner Yacht Sales? Back when the border was closed, we bought our boat remotely from them. They were responsive, and the sales lady happily did a video tour of the boat for us. She even described the smell (I thought that was going a step above). And long after the sale was complete, and I came down to get the boat, she insisted on picking me up from the car rental place (it was a complicated journey lol).

Anyway, I hope you don't give up on the dream.

Oh no, haven’t given up on the dream, just going to wait till I’m there to interact with brokers and private sellers. I’m in Colorado at present, and emailing/calling hasn’t worked very well. From what’s been said here in the thread, that will be my best option. Have bought and sold many cars, trucks, toys, really anything with a engine attached. As they say cash talks, and that’s how I’ve done most every transaction, face to face with cash in hand.

Following all the online boat sales, seems there’s always one that I’m interested in. Thanks for posting up

[rgano]

Grandwood, where was this woodie you were interested in?

[GrandWood]

Originally Posted by rgano

Grandwood, where was this woodie you were interested in?

Up in the PNW, there’s actually three on my list, GB36s, and there’s a Monk coho 48ft there as well, it’s been on the market for sometime now.

Down in San Diego there’s a GB42 that a couple lived on for 20 plus years, and set up nice.

[PierreR]

GrandWood, you sound serious but everything you are contemplating is setting you up for failure.
You admit to not being in the best of health and I can assure you working on a larger boat is a full time physically demanding job. Add in wood and its likely undoable.

Then you pick on of the toughest areas of the world to actually try it.

You want to anchor out and live off the land on the cheap.

If you told me any of this I would not call you back.

I have forgotten more about wood boats than most people with wood boats today know. I would normally not offer suggestions except you seem sincere and I have a suggestion that fits you desires much more closely in terms of you dreams.

I bought my current boat 4 months ago in Madisonville Louisiana and actually really like this place. It is cheap, the food is plentiful, there are liveaboards and this is the home of the wooden boat festival every October. There is an abundance of wooden boats in this area. A combination of docking in fresh water and playing in salt water is very hard on marine bugs that feed on wooden boats.
Crabbing, fishing, crawdads and shrimping seem to be much easier to do here than the PNW. The weather is for the most part pleasant in the winter. Mid summer is hot and there are hurricanes but you can go up the Tenn-Tom to Mississippi or Tennessee and still largely do what you plan to do cheaply.
I say if you are by yourself and like a more simple lifestyle think GB 32 or 36. There are three a stones throw from my boat.

[GrandWood]

Originally Posted by PierreR

GrandWood, you sound serious but everything you are contemplating is setting you up for failure.
You admit to not being in the best of health and I can assure you working on a larger boat is a full time physically demanding job. Add in wood and its likely undoable.

Then you pick on of the toughest areas of the world to actually try it.

You want to anchor out and live off the land on the cheap.

If you told me any of this I would not call you back.

I have forgotten more about wood boats than most people with wood boats today know. I would normally not offer suggestions except you seem sincere and I have a suggestion that fits you desires much more closely in terms of you dreams.

I bought my current boat 4 months ago in Madisonville Louisiana and actually really like this place. It is cheap, the food is plentiful, there are liveaboards and this is the home of the wooden boat festival every October. There is an abundance of wooden boats in this area. A combination of docking in fresh water and playing in salt water is very hard on marine bugs that feed on wooden boats.
Crabbing, fishing, crawdads and shrimping seem to be much easier to do here than the PNW. The weather is for the most part pleasant in the winter. Mid summer is hot and there are hurricanes but you can go up the Tenn-Tom to Mississippi or Tennessee and still largely do what you plan to do cheaply.
I say if you are by yourself and like a more simple lifestyle think GB 32 or 36. There are three a stones throw from my boat.

I spent over a year in Biloxi, MS, Kessler AFB, retraining in the USAF, very enjoyable area, camped out on the islands just off the coast, fishing was some of the best I ever experienced. Neighbor also in the USAF had nice cabin cruiser and towed along a John boat, fished all the canals.

Lived in Galveston for 2 yrs right after HS, owned property down in Punta Gorda, Fla. brother lives in Jacksonville, Fla. I like the whole gulf coast quite abit, and the people were great, the crawdad cookouts were hard to beat. Pensacola beaches were the most pristine white sand I’ve ever been to, crystal clear waters.

And lots of places for extended cruises, it would be a priority if not for……

The Hurricanes is what has deterred me from thinking of owning a boat there. Trying to find insurance I’ve read is really tough, lots of restrictions were you can go and such. And man when a thunderstorm comes in, rained like I never experienced, crazy close thunder and lighting.

Thanks so much for replying

[garbler]

Looked at hundreds and hundreds of Groco’s and rarely seen a problem. Easy to service don’t freeze up like Wilcox Crittenden or the English Davies and are made of good quality silicon bronze from same foundry that Buck Algonguin uses ( I’m told ). If the color freaks you out well it’s unwarranted. If they get pinkish in color then I’d worry a bit as this is sign of dezincafication but these are good quality with very little alloy zinc so not to worry. Hanging a sea strainer of that thru-hull is a a serious problem. Move it.

Surprised that nobody here thinks it’s a problem boring four thru-hull holes in about a square foot of the underwater hull skin. It’s funny but I can never sell the idea of a simple sea chest with yacht builders

Rick

[Fishsail]

We put a deposit on a used boat with just looked at the pics 800 miles away.then we hired a local surveyor for $250. Just to give the boat a look over. He sent us videos and tons of pics. I just wanted to know if it was worth the trip down? He showed us some great features the broker never mentioned in his listing, like a built in washer/dryer, a dinghy crane with chocks. It was the best 250 I spent, much cheaper then making the trip down myself, in which I’ll be doing next month for the official survey. But yes the broker was very lazy, apparently not much money in this deal. Brokers seem to just want each quick sale, not looking for long time clients or referrals.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Nick14

Of course no one wants to waste time on those who are not serious, whether you're on the selling or buying side. Many of us have had enough headaches, on both sides, dealing with things like craigslist to swear it off for life. But it can be a matter of judgement and personal opinion as to what one considers 'serious.'

During the peak of the pandemic insanity fueled seller's market, I was advised that what a 'serious' buyer needed to do in order to earn a broker's attention was -

1. Ask no questions. Period. Questions about a boat were just not allowed.

2. Make an offer sight unseen. For no less than full asking price, and usually more.

3. Offer must have an escalation clause to automatically outbid other offers.

4. Offer to be cash and not have any financial contingencies.

5. Ask questions only of the surveyor (or, contradictorily, to make an offer without a survey contingency).

6. Close within 14 days.

7. Ask no questions, because I was told a buyer who asked 'questions' was automatically labelled as 'not serious.'

In other words, a 'serious' buyer had to bend down, grab their ankles, say 'thank you sir, may I please have more?', and hand over their wallet and say 'help yourself.'

It was this kind of attitude and reception from the majority of (though not all) brokers I dealt with that resulted in my buying a new boat. For about twice the money I was originally planning to spend on a used boat (but it seemed that wasn't enough for me to be assessed as 'serious' because I committed the unforgivable transgression of trying to ask questions before committing to buy a boat for a six-figure price).

During the past couple of years of market craziness, I don't know if it was so much sellers trying to assess who was 'serious' as it was who was a naive or desperate sucker, and thus easy and quick money.

Of course market conditions of demand exceeding supply drive up prices. That's understandable and expected. But hot markets don't also require rudeness and discourtesy.

It's anyone's guess what the boat market will do in the future, except most bets are for a cooling off, to some degree. It will be interesting to see if basic civility returns. But for me, there's now a long list of people I will never do business with, and a shorter list of people I admire, appreciate, and would always welcome the privilege of working with. Short term greed might have made a few extra bucks, but I hope the long term favors those who maintained a sense of decency and ethics despite the craziness.

Even if someone was just in the early looking stage, as Malcom Forbes said, “You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.”

If this was you're take-away, I can see why you have problems.

[Nick14]

Originally Posted by Shrew

If this was you're take-away, I can see why you have problems.

Very thoughtful, considerate, and helpful comment.

My observations were not just my 'take away', but things that were specifically said to me. Including, by you, in another thread:

Originally Posted by Shrew

My unsolicited advise,

1) Submit an offer with a deposit and contingencies (subject to survey and seatrial). People are making offers sight un-seen. You're calling to book appointments. It's not the broker you should be frustrated with, it's the other buyers.

2) Stop asking 'tire kicker' questions (e.g. 'engine hours'). There is time for that during survey. You are sending up a red flag to the broker.

3) The only question to ask is 'who is holding the deposit in escrow'. You'll get your money back provided the
P&S contingencies are not met. Don't bother asking about 'When will I get the deposit back'? The broker isn't the escrow/title agency and can't answer this question. Again, (no offense) but you're sending up red flags.

4) Yes, wire transfers, because checks can bounce. Purchase and Sale agreements are not sent without a 'good faith' deposit. 10% is standard. When bidding wars occur, deposit mini's can be higher. Your (albeit mild) resistance to wires and deposits and sending up red flags to the broker.

and as I responded back then:

Originally Posted by Nick14

It's reasons such as these that I gave up on trying to buy a used boat and signed an agreement for a new build. If asking the engine hours is a 'tire kicker' question on a half-million dollar boat, then I'm not in the market. I wouldn't buy a used car without asking how many miles it has. Why would I spend 10 times more on a boat and not know? If a boat has 1000 hours I'm interested; if it has 5000 I'd like to know up front so I don't waste my or anyone else's time with an offer, deposit, survey, etc. It's a simple question, and if a broker considers it a 'tire kicker' question, then they may be looking for the kind of naive sucker @Gdavid mentioned who'll fork over their money for anything. That's not me. I worked too hard for my money.

I have nothing against wire transfers, and ask for them myself as a seller. Maybe I'm too demanding, but if someone is requiring that I wire them over $100,000 just for them look at my offer and let me know if they'll consider it, then I would like to know how and when I'll get my money back if they say no. If it's a 'red flag' to someone that I'd like that stated in the agreement, I'm not willing to risk $100,000.

We're all victims of our own past experiences. One of mine was several years ago, I sent a deposit along with an offer on a boat. The offer was declined, and it took me many months, and the involvement of an attorney, to get my deposit back. $100,000 isn't pocket change to me.

My take on current brokerage market conditions is that greed and megalomania are too much at play. If the preferred buyer is a naive rube who won't ask such annoying questions as engine hours or terms for refund of a six-figure deposit, then I'm not a player in that game.

Part of my own baggage is that I've owned 13 boats over 52 years, and have never been subjected to this kind of rudeness, arrogance, and disrespect. I may be hopelessly old school, but I don't think it's too much to expect professionalism and simply civility, which I strive to always give in all my dealings. There is a list of brokers I will never work with again based on these recent experiences. These market conditions will not remain this way forever, and I will remember those who acted decently, and those who didn't.

There are those (perhaps on the selling side, or being brokers) who profited, sometimes greatly, from the market conditions over the past few years. I suspect many people made more money, working less hard, particularly from buyers who were willing to be subservient and submissive.

But that doesn't mean every buyer must be servile. Some people, like myself, would rather exit the game than bend over and take whatever comes. Like I did, and went for a new boat instead of continuing to beat my head against the used boat market wall.

Not all brokers and sellers I interacted with acted so arrogantly and imperiously. Some (a minority) kept a sense of integrity, civility, politeness, and adherence to basic decency as well as business integrity. Those people are on the short list of ones I would always welcome and appreciate the opportunity and privilege of working with, and will get my future business. There's a longer list of people I will never deal with again, on the buying or selling side.

[PhilPB]

Not only did we find our boat but we also found our slip on Craigslist. Win...win