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Old 10-10-2019, 05:27 PM   #1
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Seller refusing to return my $1000 deposit when I backed of the deal

Iniitially seller assured me that I'll be able to regiester the boat in NY state, even though it's been documented. But after 3 days, seller tells me that I can't regiester the boat until the boat gets un documented and it's going to take 3weeks! Now this process can take longer and can even get complicated, if the right paper work is not submitted!

So, I backed out of the deal and the seller got mad at me and he's refusing to return my $1000 deposit! I mean if the guy knew he's going to put his boat up for sale then why wait until the last minute to un document it! I don't know what to do. This is first time ever buying a boat! What can I do to recover my deposit form the seller?

Thanks,
Lias
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:41 PM   #2
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If purchasing via a broker, money should be held in escrow. If private sale and with a contract with a closing date, then argue seller cannot deliver goods by closing date. If private sale with basic rights but nothing on closing date, work with the seller or pursue small claims court. You will need to build a file - emails of when the closing was supposed to be, etc. Frankly, if it can get ir done in 3-weeks and just move on, you are likely better to just bite your tongue and be patient, but that's just am opinion from deep in the bleachers.

I am unaware that boats cannot hold dual registry with both state and federal authorities (documented vessels) . I'm pretty sure state of Florida requires boats to be registered even if they are documented so it's easier to collect taxes.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:47 PM   #3
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What does the Sale Agreement say about this,or closing date, or documentation,etc. That`s your starting point. Though I`m wondering if this assurance is in the Agreement.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:58 PM   #4
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Seller refusing to return my $1000 deposit when I backed of the deal

I think you are giving too much importance to ‘what the seller says’. A vessel can be both documented and state registered. A USCG COD is null and void when a vessel is sold. It is up to the previous owner to return the old COD to the USCG. It takes months for the USCG to process anything. But as long as you have filed, emailed and submitted the bill of sale, an application for documentation you can wander off within the states.

A state registration is a PITA imho. But you can certainly submit a state registration with a bill of sale. You should call the NVDC National vessel documentation Center. https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organiz...tation-Center/ for the straight scoop. There are private companies that provide this service for about 200 to 500 bucks.

You can also apply for a 5 year term. Imagine that! Having the USCG COD valid for 5 years!!!! And not having to bother with state numbers and junk every year.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:59 PM   #5
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:38 PM   #6
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There is no reason you can not get a NY reg from a document. I never heard of undocumenting a vessel for that purpose.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:38 PM   #7
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Something about this sounds fishy. As noted above you do not have to "undocument" a vessel to register it with a state. When I was a broker for a short while in Annapolis, we routinely registered the boat with Maryland while we waited for the federal document paperwork to clear.

That he can't give you the documents (not in the USCG sense of the word) you need to register it now is very fishy sounding.


Call your state and find out what documents you need to register the boat and demand them from the seller. If he can't supply them, then definitely back out of the sale.


How you get your deposit back is another issue. I assume he is holding the money. Maybe just write it off to a lesson learned.



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Old 10-10-2019, 06:49 PM   #8
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I betcha there is a ‘problem’ with Title. Something sounds fishy.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:56 PM   #9
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Call the bluff if it is one
tell him you'll document it, <$100 no big deal then no NY reg needed
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
. I'm pretty sure state of Florida requires boats to be registered even if they are documented so it's easier to collect taxes.

That's incorrect, Fl collects the tax then it's your choice to doc or reg


just did it in August, paid the tax and filed Docs
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:14 PM   #11
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Whether documented or not, a motorized vessel in New York State must be registered. Check out the New York State DMV website. Thus, a documented boat isn't required to be non-documented to obtain state registration.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:33 PM   #12
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Seller simply has to sign current certificate of documentation over to you on back of certificate. His signature must be notarized. Alternatively he could submit a Deletion From Documentation form.

I don't think NY will register a documented boat without a new certificate or a letter of deletion. They will require some sort of title chain. USCG documentation is a simple, easy but long process and should not hold up sale of boat as long as you have bill of sale and signed certificate.

As others have mentioned, something is off. I suspect he can't find his original certificate. At this point, you can attempt to complete the sale (via a notarized USCG bill of sale and notarized certificate) or head for small claims court where you might prevail but thta doesn't mean he will refund your money.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:37 PM   #13
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Contact Connie, she can tell you what is required.

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Old 10-10-2019, 07:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
I am unaware that boats cannot hold dual registry with both state and federal authorities (documented vessels) . I'm pretty sure state of Florida requires boats to be registered even if they are documented so it's easier to collect taxes.
Calif, I am told, will tax an out of state boat if they stay too long in their precious waters. So now you get to pay 3 time, 3 times. Aren't we all lucky?

Per your $1000, that prevented him from selling the boat to someone else while you were investigated the boat further.
Per re-documenting the boat, it is like buying a used car. The car is in the current owner's name. You must reregister the car into your name.
The boat is documented in the current owner's name. You buy the boat, of course you have to re-document it in your name.
I doubt, if the state will demand you undocumented the boat.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:04 PM   #15
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The feds and states really don't talk between one another so whether you are registered or not ...or documented or not...each doesn't care about the other.



Only the Feds seem to care that you cannot have a state titled boat if documented.


Not sure about titles when states require you to register for overstaying a limit in their state despite you being registered in your home state.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:13 PM   #16
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First I could argue to NEVER EVER give any deposit on ANYTHING where you don't control the deposit. PERIOD!


Let a third party hold it with your explicit instruction that it will be returned to you no matter what, if the deal doesn't consummate.


But now that waters over the damn, so you really have to:


Threaten him where he'll return the deposit. or...
Sue him in small claims court.



However, if this is really a boat you want and is a good deal for you, take it. The state registration is a non issue, documented or not.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:47 PM   #17
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Calif, I am told, will tax an out of state boat if they stay too long in their precious waters. So now you get to pay 3 time, 3 times. Aren't we all lucky?
Many, perhaps most states do this. Certainly Florida does.

I don't understand the problem. Unless the problem is with the title, and that is much easier to learn on a documented boat than a state registered one.

Have the seller sign the COD and get a bill of sale (CG has the forms). Do whatever else you want at your leisure - the boat is yours from that date.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:07 PM   #18
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Wonder if there is a lean against the boat he doesn’t want you to know about. Check the documented title for sure.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:45 PM   #19
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What were the conditions of giving the deposit? The buyer (OP) gave the deposit and then backed out of the deal. Usually a deposit is given to compensate the seller for the time and trouble of removing the boat from the market, restarting the selling process if the buyer backs out, and the opportunity cost of market removal. The deposit is also a good faith demonstration that the buyer will follow through with the purchase.

The deposit agreement should have clauses that specify the conditions that will cause forfeit of the deposit and also clauses that give conditions when the deposit will be refunded.

Perhaps the OP did not read the fine print, or maybe there was no fine print to begin with...
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Old 10-11-2019, 06:41 AM   #20
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We had to undocument our Marine Trader on purchase as we were Aliens (not US citizens ) It was no problem and didn't interfere with registering her in Delaware, a duty free State.
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