Seller refusing to return my $1000 deposit when I backed of the deal

[lias]

Iniitially seller assured me that I'll be able to regiester the boat in NY state, even though it's been documented. But after 3 days, seller tells me that I can't regiester the boat until the boat gets un documented and it's going to take 3weeks! Now this process can take longer and can even get complicated, if the right paper work is not submitted!

So, I backed out of the deal and the seller got mad at me and he's refusing to return my $1000 deposit! I mean if the guy knew he's going to put his boat up for sale then why wait until the last minute to un document it! I don't know what to do. This is first time ever buying a boat! What can I do to recover my deposit form the seller?

Thanks,
Lias

 

[mvweebles]

If purchasing via a broker, money should be held in escrow. If private sale and with a contract with a closing date, then argue seller cannot deliver goods by closing date. If private sale with basic rights but nothing on closing date, work with the seller or pursue small claims court. You will need to build a file - emails of when the closing was supposed to be, etc. Frankly, if it can get ir done in 3-weeks and just move on, you are likely better to just bite your tongue and be patient, but that's just am opinion from deep in the bleachers.

I am unaware that boats cannot hold dual registry with both state and federal authorities (documented vessels) . I'm pretty sure state of Florida requires boats to be registered even if they are documented so it's easier to collect taxes.

 

[BruceK]

What does the Sale Agreement say about this,or closing date, or documentation,etc. That`s your starting point. Though I`m wondering if this assurance is in the Agreement.

 

[cappy208]

I think you are giving too much importance to ‘what the seller says’. A vessel can be both documented and state registered. A USCG COD is null and void when a vessel is sold. It is up to the previous owner to return the old COD to the USCG. It takes months for the USCG to process anything. But as long as you have filed, emailed and submitted the bill of sale, an application for documentation you can wander off within the states.

A state registration is a PITA imho. But you can certainly submit a state registration with a bill of sale. You should call the NVDC National vessel documentation Center. https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organi...s-DCO-D/National-Vessel-Documentation-Center/ for the straight scoop. There are private companies that provide this service for about 200 to 500 bucks.

You can also apply for a 5 year term. Imagine that! Having the USCG COD valid for 5 years!!!! And not having to bother with state numbers and junk every year.

 

[fgarriso]

Buyers Agent/Broker!

 

[Arc]

There is no reason you can not get a NY reg from a document. I never heard of undocumenting a vessel for that purpose.

 

[DavidM]

Something about this sounds fishy. As noted above you do not have to "undocument" a vessel to register it with a state. When I was a broker for a short while in Annapolis, we routinely registered the boat with Maryland while we waited for the federal document paperwork to clear.

That he can't give you the documents (not in the USCG sense of the word) you need to register it now is very fishy sounding.


Call your state and find out what documents you need to register the boat and demand them from the seller. If he can't supply them, then definitely back out of the sale.


How you get your deposit back is another issue. I assume he is holding the money. Maybe just write it off to a lesson learned.



David

 

[cappy208]

I betcha there is a ‘problem’ with Title. Something sounds fishy.

 

[lipets]

Call the bluff if it is one
tell him you'll document it, <$100 no big deal then no NY reg needed

 

[lipets]

. I'm pretty sure state of Florida requires boats to be registered even if they are documented so it's easier to collect taxes.

That's incorrect, Fl collects the tax then it's your choice to doc or reg


just did it in August, paid the tax and filed Docs

 

[markpierce]

Whether documented or not, a motorized vessel in New York State must be registered. Check out the New York State DMV website. Thus, a documented boat isn't required to be non-documented to obtain state registration.

 

[SoWhat]

Seller simply has to sign current certificate of documentation over to you on back of certificate. His signature must be notarized. Alternatively he could submit a Deletion From Documentation form.

I don't think NY will register a documented boat without a new certificate or a letter of deletion. They will require some sort of title chain. USCG documentation is a simple, easy but long process and should not hold up sale of boat as long as you have bill of sale and signed certificate.

As others have mentioned, something is off. I suspect he can't find his original certificate. At this point, you can attempt to complete the sale (via a notarized USCG bill of sale and notarized certificate) or head for small claims court where you might prevail but thta doesn't mean he will refund your money.

 

[fgarriso]

Contact Connie, she can tell you what is required.

connie@allyachtdoc.com 386-462-1144

 

[OldDan1943]

I am unaware that boats cannot hold dual registry with both state and federal authorities (documented vessels) . I'm pretty sure state of Florida requires boats to be registered even if they are documented so it's easier to collect taxes.

Calif, I am told, will tax an out of state boat if they stay too long in their precious waters. So now you get to pay 3 time, 3 times. Aren't we all lucky?

Per your $1000, that prevented him from selling the boat to someone else while you were investigated the boat further.
Per re-documenting the boat, it is like buying a used car. The car is in the current owner's name. You must reregister the car into your name.
The boat is documented in the current owner's name. You buy the boat, of course you have to re-document it in your name.
I doubt, if the state will demand you undocumented the boat.

 

[psneeld]

The feds and states really don't talk between one another so whether you are registered or not ...or documented or not...each doesn't care about the other.



Only the Feds seem to care that you cannot have a state titled boat if documented.


Not sure about titles when states require you to register for overstaying a limit in their state despite you being registered in your home state.

 

[Seevee]

First I could argue to NEVER EVER give any deposit on ANYTHING where you don't control the deposit. PERIOD!


Let a third party hold it with your explicit instruction that it will be returned to you no matter what, if the deal doesn't consummate.


But now that waters over the damn, so you really have to:


Threaten him where he'll return the deposit. or...
Sue him in small claims court.



However, if this is really a boat you want and is a good deal for you, take it. The state registration is a non issue, documented or not.

 

[DDW]

Calif, I am told, will tax an out of state boat if they stay too long in their precious waters. So now you get to pay 3 time, 3 times. Aren't we all lucky?

Many, perhaps most states do this. Certainly Florida does.

I don't understand the problem. Unless the problem is with the title, and that is much easier to learn on a documented boat than a state registered one.

Have the seller sign the COD and get a bill of sale (CG has the forms). Do whatever else you want at your leisure - the boat is yours from that date.

 

[ghost]

Wonder if there is a lean against the boat he doesn’t want you to know about. Check the documented title for sure.

 

[ssobol]

What were the conditions of giving the deposit? The buyer (OP) gave the deposit and then backed out of the deal. Usually a deposit is given to compensate the seller for the time and trouble of removing the boat from the market, restarting the selling process if the buyer backs out, and the opportunity cost of market removal. The deposit is also a good faith demonstration that the buyer will follow through with the purchase.

The deposit agreement should have clauses that specify the conditions that will cause forfeit of the deposit and also clauses that give conditions when the deposit will be refunded.

Perhaps the OP did not read the fine print, or maybe there was no fine print to begin with...

 

[auskiwi]

We had to undocument our Marine Trader on purchase as we were Aliens (not US citizens ) It was no problem and didn't interfere with registering her in Delaware, a duty free State.

 

[Group9]

Federal documentation would interfere with "titling" a boat with the state. It doesn't not interfere with "registering" a boat with the state.

And why doesn't he just use the Coast Guard Bill of Sale Document (CG - 1340) to sell you the boat, and then you can redocument it, or undocument it, or whatever you want.

Either the seller is ignorant, or there is a problem with the title he isn't telling you about.

Small claims court is probably the best place to go to get your deposit back if this can't be worked out, but I'm not familiar with New York law.

 

[hollywood8118]

Iniitially seller assured me that I'll be able to regiester the boat in NY state, even though it's been documented. But after 3 days, seller tells me that I can't regiester the boat until the boat gets un documented and it's going to take 3weeks! Now this process can take longer and can even get complicated, if the right paper work is not submitted!

So, I backed out of the deal and the seller got mad at me and he's refusing to return my $1000 deposit! I mean if the guy knew he's going to put his boat up for sale then why wait until the last minute to un document it! I don't know what to do. This is first time ever buying a boat! What can I do to recover my deposit form the seller?

Thanks,
Lias

Post a link here of the boat for sale so someone else doesn't get suckered buy the same guy again


HOLLYWOOD

 

[Shrew]

The boat can be in NY for 90 days before it requires registration. I've never registered a boat BEFORE I bought it. Any boat I've ever bought has been registered weeks to up to two months after I bought it (within the requirements of that state(I've registered boats in NH, CT and RI all the same way).

The USCG is holding the Title and that is what needs to be transferred as part of the sale. You couldn't register the vessel in your name with the sellers name on the documentation.

The P&S should have specific language around what allows the buyer to back out. It should include that the deposit is refundable. Typically the stipulations are Survey, Sea Trial, and a closing date. As Seevee mentioned, you can define the terms for back-out anyway you want.

At this point, either the contract includes terms which allow you be refunded your deposit or it doesn't. Either you've met the terms your you haven't. If the contract doesn't say 'contingent upon registration', then this is not a legitimate reason to back-out. If there are no time limits, or you haven't exceeded the time limits, then this is not a legitimate reason to back out.

This is mostly speculation since we aren't privy to the terms on the P&S.

 

[Seevee]

<<<<Originally Posted by mvweebles
. I'm pretty sure state of Florida requires boats to be registered even if they are documented so it's easier to collect taxes.>>>>

That's incorrect, Fl collects the tax then it's your choice to doc or reg

just did it in August, paid the tax and filed Docs

Just to be correct, the state of FL does require a boat to be registered (and the tax paid). A FL title is not require if documented.

 

[tiltrider1]

I’m thinking there is more to the story here. First time boat buyer, might not fully understand documenting/title/state registration. Seller might not be very good at communicating. Also, why was a deposit made, was this to hold the boat for survey or to find financing? I’m thinking this is a CL deal gone sideways.

 

[Group9]

[/I]

Just to be correct, the state of FL does require a boat to be registered (and the tax paid). A FL title is not require if documented.

And, in fact, it would be illegal to title a federally documented vessel.

And, for a good reason, there would then be two titles for one vessel.

 

[OldDan1943]

What a crock. You even attempt to document or get state register a boat before you buy it, sort of sounds like you are attempting to steal the boat.
What you do want to make sure is, there are no leans on the boat.

 

[AKDoug]

In Alaska, new last season, even though a vessel is Documented it must also have State registration numbers and decal. I was boarded for inspection in Seward this last August and they informed me of the new regulation but didn't cite me for not having State registration. I am assuming the State thought they were losing revenue by allowing Documentation only...

 

[kthoennes]

In Alaska, new last season, even though a vessel is Documented it must also have State registration numbers and decal. I was boarded for inspection in Seward this last August and they informed me of the new regulation but didn't cite me for not having State registration. I am assuming the State thought they were losing revenue by allowing Documentation only...

Wow. For a second there I thought you (or the water cop) were off in the weeds, couldn't possibly be right, but sure enough, A.S. 05.25.055(d) appears to require the display of state reg numbers. The language they use is not quite clear to me though, they keep talking about a federally issued certificate of number and the state issuing a matching number, not sure what they mean by that. Huh. I keep a copy of 46 US code Section 12106 on my boat just in case I ever needed to show it to a state or local water cop. Pretty clear, the display of state numbers can't be required on fed doc vessels.

 

[kthoennes]

Oh, I think I understand now. Yes, AK Admin Code, AAC 70, amended effective Jan 2019. So if you're undocumented, then you have to display the state reg numbers (and decal) on the bow. Fine, that's routine. If you're documented though, then you ask the state to issue a "certificate of number" that matches your federal number, but I don't see any reference that says the state certificate number has to be displayed on the bow, just "carried on board" (2AAC 70.180(b)). Boy. Wow, none of those silly complications here. Wonder why they take that approach. Seems to me state registration by itself puts all your data in the state system, why goof around with all the complications of a state number that mirrors your USCG number. Maybe some of the Alaskans on here can clarify.