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Old 02-06-2020, 10:06 AM   #21
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I'm use to all those things and more being done. Which items do you find unusual?
Not that they are unusual but rather things I can and do myself before the actual surveyor is commissioned. (examples: On A through E, I like the surveyor 's opinion.) The rest, excluding the out of water survey, I do myself. It shortens the time the surveyor is aboard, satisfies the insurer and reduces the bill for surveyors that want to make a career out of their time aboard.
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Old 02-06-2020, 01:04 PM   #22
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WOW! I have never heard of anyone doing all those things on a survey!
You need to get a new surveyor. Incidentally, you now know at least one person.

I do the survey in two days.

Day 1:
Hull survey and most systems that don't require water. Electrical, structural, etc.

Day 2: Engine Survey and Sea trial.
-> This includes the systems which can't be tested on land (HVAC, generator, engines, pumps, etc).

There is no point in moving onto the engine survey and seatrial is the hull survey bombed. There is no point paying a mechanic to stand around while a surveyor taps on the hull and crawls through the bilges.
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Old 02-06-2020, 04:06 PM   #23
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I've only purchased 2 boats over 34' but have been involved in other purchases as a buyers consultant.

I suggest doing your own through inspection/survey of the chosen boat prior to any offers. That should uncover any major issues and avoid unnecessary time and expense. If not comfortable with your ability to spot problems, bring an experienced boater along to look at the boat for you. Or higher a buyers consultant. An experienced eye, whether a consultant or friend will see issues that you will not.

When selecting a surveyor, do not hire any recommended by the broker. Who do you think he will be loyal to? A buyer that he will probably never see again or the broker that is steering business his way. Find your own, Ask others who have recently made a purchase for their recommendation.

As for engine surveys, I prefer to use a mechanic that specializes in the brand of engine in the boat. You want a specialist, not a generalist. One from the engine dealer or recommended by them.

Don't put a lot of emphasis on the oil analysis. It will identify an engine with major issues like antifreeze, diesel fuel, excessive blow-by and a few others in the oil. But on newer or low hour engines, several oil analysis done over a period of time is required to identify small incremental changes to the engine. And most sellers will likely do an oil change prior to listing the boat. And an unscrupulous seller will do several oil changes to flush out the sump.
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Old 02-06-2020, 04:56 PM   #24
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Not that they are unusual but rather things I can and do myself before the actual surveyor is commissioned. (examples: On A through E, I like the surveyor 's opinion.) The rest, excluding the out of water survey, I do myself. It shortens the time the surveyor is aboard, satisfies the insurer and reduces the bill for surveyors that want to make a career out of their time aboard.
In general and boat specific I agree. Before any offer is made, if the boat is in the ball park, a good pre-survey owner oriented look over is essential. A knowledgeable boater (and a smart friend) should be able to do many systems checks, spot problem areas, assess equipment layout sensibility and overall serviceability before a surveyor ever shows up. Plus review any available records too.

I have done this on vessels up to 65' in size in a compact day. Many others have too.
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Old 02-06-2020, 04:58 PM   #25
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Also remember, you cannot start the main engine and generator until your offer is accepted and perhaps a 10% refundable deposit too.
Here at least, that seems quite wrong. Brokers I encountered recently are willing to start engine(s) and genset as part of the initial inspection.
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Old 02-06-2020, 05:00 PM   #26
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One more comment on sea trials. In addition to running at various speeds including WOT and seeing what max RPM the engines are reaching, put the boat through some paces too. In perfectly smooth water, going in a straight line, every boat will feel good. Find some rougher seas and, if you can't, create your own through some turns and circles. Do some tight turns to see how it handles them. Basically test the boat, just don't go for a leisurely ride.
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Old 02-06-2020, 05:00 PM   #27
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Here at least, that seems quite wrong. Brokers I encountered recently are willing to start engine(s) and genset as part of the initial inspection.
Not in our area.
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Old 02-06-2020, 05:08 PM   #28
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Old 02-06-2020, 05:20 PM   #29
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Not in our area.
Some years ago a vessel I was interested in had a very smart blue water owner that was more than willing to spend a few hours running up things for me. We did the same on our vessel when a very serious buyer showed up even going to the extent to provide a top flight mechanic to show this buyer the vessel in our absence.

Another story, when being given a preview of a Trident 130' as the buyer's consultant the Captain and crew ran everything we desired up for us. Heck they even gave us coffee and pastries fresh from the galley.

Point being, pre survey inspection "depends" and is vessel specific. And is essential IMHO.
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Old 02-06-2020, 05:37 PM   #30
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Some years ago a vessel I was interested in had a very smart blue water owner that was more than willing to spend a few hours running up things for me. We did the same on our vessel when a very serious buyer showed up even going to the extent to provide a top flight mechanic to show this buyer the vessel in our absence.

Another story, when being given a preview of a Trident 130' as the buyer's consultant the Captain and crew ran everything we desired up for us. Heck they even gave us coffee and pastries fresh from the galley.

Point being, pre survey inspection "depends" and is vessel specific. And is essential IMHO.
But you're talking owners and their employees. The statement I was referring to was brokers starting engines and gensets and, in our area, the vast majority will not. In some cases, owners may be available or have crew on larger boats to do so, but brokers will not take the risk.
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Old 02-06-2020, 07:52 PM   #31
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But you're talking owners and their employees. The statement I was referring to was brokers starting engines and gensets and, in our area, the vast majority will not. In some cases, owners may be available or have crew on larger boats to do so, but brokers will not take the risk.
I agree.
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Old 02-06-2020, 08:34 PM   #32
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A prudent broker will not show a boat with the owner onboard.

An owner who wants to sell his boat will never be aboard during a showing.

Having the seller and buyer meet before an offer is accepted is a really bad idea.
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Old 02-06-2020, 08:56 PM   #33
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But you're talking owners and their employees. The statement I was referring to was brokers starting engines and gensets and, in our area, the vast majority will not. In some cases, owners may be available or have crew on larger boats to do so, but brokers will not take the risk.
I assume they do it with owners permission. I can`t recall inspecting a boat where the raw water seacocks were anything but open. Some even frozen open.
A brokerage boat seen this week had the 3 position bilge pump switches set to "off".
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Old 02-08-2020, 05:32 PM   #34
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Not in our area.
I can understand that for larger boats, but for smaller (<50') vessels, from my experience, it's never been an issue.
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Old 02-08-2020, 05:43 PM   #35
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Hello all. Currently a sailboat owner I have been reading this forum and learning while searching for a suitable trawler. We had our present sailboat surveyed when we purchased it but did not sea trial, and had no regrets. However a twin engine power vessel is much more complex and we will want a sea trial but have no idea how to conduct one.
How is one done and what do you look for? Does a surveyor or mechanic go along?
Thank you for any advice.
FWIW, an older boat will have issues, that's a given. The trick is to find out what the issues are and having done that, decide if the boat still represents good value.

This may depend on how handy you are with fixing things, if you are not, things can get pretty pricey very quickly.

Good luck with the search.
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Old 02-08-2020, 05:58 PM   #36
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When boat shopping a few years ago, we must have inspected (looked at) at least 30 boats prior to making an offer. None of those boats were started or had any of their systems operated prior to an offer to purchase. Just wasn't allowed.

If I were selling my boat, I would not allow a broker that is probably unfamiliar with all aspects of my particular boat, or a potential buyer that is currently "just looking" to operate the systems (including engine, gen set, etc.) prior to an offer. IMHO too much risk, all of it mine!
Even after the accepted offer, I would want to be aboard to avoid any potential problems that could result if someone made a mistake along the way, including the incorrect shutdown (or lack thereof) of any of the systems. I would try to be as discrete as possible and give the buyer and his/her "people" their privacy when needed!
I work too hard and spend too much on keeping our boat in "tip top" condition and would want to avoid future problems that could easily accidentally develop. By the way, I would take my boat up to WOT for up to 15 minutes if that is what the buyer or his mechanic/surveyor asked. Beyond 15 minutes is just not needed.

To the OP, paying for a "complete" thorough survey is "cheap insurance" when compared to the overall costs and potential costs associated with buying a boat!!!
Follow the good advice you have been given here, and carefully check out your potential purchase. Don't be afraid to "walk away" after the survey costs (and a "bad boat") should the results indicate that as your best course of action. Way less expensive than buying a "lemon".
If you can find a boat where the owner has kept good maintenance records and/or receipts, and the boat shows it has been "loved", that is a very good place to start, but still check it out carefully.
Good luck,
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:03 PM   #37
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I can understand that for larger boats, but for smaller (<50') vessels, from my experience, it's never been an issue.
But then I said "not in our area" and you're not in it.
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:47 PM   #38
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Would any of you purchase private.?

We are looking at 36’TT on Monday, which is a private sale! The owner has been great, and has offered us to spend 2 nights on it at the dock to get a feel if it’s for us. So this gives me 2 days to scour the ER and other systems.

We do still plan to get a haul out survey and engine mechanic to check things out.

The confusion for us is the dealing, he has said what he is asking. We have not countered or no contract signed.
At what point would we put deposit down? Before or after we personally view the boat?
Any thoughts, I find this an unusual situation. But very great fuel to owner to allow us to view the boat in this way.

Any thoughts?

Thx
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:56 PM   #39
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Troy,
If I were the seller, I would want an accepted offer and deposit before you were allowed to stay overnight, survey, sea trial, operate systems, etc. Viewing without an offer, no problem! Also, before the overnight, I would want to ascertain your level of expertise to ensure that everything would go well and also to determine who was taking any risks that might be involved in such an arrangement?

There are a lot of "looky loos" out there, and I would not want one wasting that much of my time, or using my boat for an overnight free "adventure".

Private sale, no problem, but as the buyer you still need to exercise the necessary level of care in your purchase process.
Good luck,
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Old 02-08-2020, 07:22 PM   #40
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Tom,
Thanks, yes that makes sense. At first when the owner offered the sleep over I thought it was a little strange. But then We thought if he had anything to hide, this isn’t how one would do it! With him offering this it made us even more interested, thinking we found a gem.

We have viewed the boat before with the owner, but we’re un decided at the time! And crawled on the outer decks many times, even had a few glasses of wine on the upper helm.

Troy
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