Questions from a total newb, USCG registration? Radio licenses?

[ProMaritime]

You "Document" a vessel with the US Coast Guard. You "register" it with state authorities. There is a big difference. If you state register a USCG documented vessel that documentation becomes invalid. The USCG will have no way of knowing this and will continue to send you renewal notices, which you will probably keep on paying. You will only find out that your documentation is invalid when the BAD happens, hopefully not in a foreign port or foreign waters.

 

[RCook]

You "Document" a vessel with the US Coast Guard. You "register" it with state authorities. There is a big difference. If you state register a USCG documented vessel that documentation becomes invalid. The USCG will have no way of knowing this and will continue to send you renewal notices, which you will probably keep on paying. You will only find out that your documentation is invalid when the BAD happens, hopefully not in a foreign port or foreign waters.

Bit of a misunderstanding here. In most states, titling a boat and registering it are two separate things. There are a few that have only registration. In those with title and registration separate, the TITLE is what conflicts with USGC Documentation. USCG Documentation records ownership, the equivalent of state Title.

In WA, for instance, if your USCG Documented boat has been in state waters long enough (60 days generally) you are required to register with WA. This triggers WA sales/use tax and annual WA property tax. It does not conflict with USCG Documentation. The annual WA registration sticker you must display on your boat shows that you've been through the process and paid up.

 

[psneeld]

Post 31 is definitely incorrect or misleading at best....misunderstanding is am understatement.

Registration is mandatory in many states even when your boat is documented.

It NOTHING to do with USCG documentation. Only 3 states I think can issue a title or title like paper when most of the time, states are prohibited from titling if a vessel is documented.

But registering a vessel DOES NOT invalidate a document...you in fact have to transfer it or cancel it with a USCG Bill Of Sale form (I think as I am about to do it) but other forms can be acceptable...also reverse of current COD can be used to transfer.

Here is the deletion process...

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DCO Documents/NVDC/DELETION.pdf?ver=2018-12-28-130935-320

 

[woodlord]

No a lot of lenders require it when they lend money for it so if you don’t pay the boat can be recovered out of the country if you own the boat outright no need to waste th $25 every year on Coast Guard Documentation

 

[woodlord]

Put numbers back on and save the $25 a year

 

[BandB]

Put numbers back on and save the $25 a year

And with that $25 you can boat for 15 minutes. I'd pay $25 anytime not to have the ugly numbers on and not to have to deal with putting them on, some falling off, and every other issue.

But back to topic. One thing I hope all sellers get out of this is the importance of getting it out of your name. As a seller, I want the buyer to use my documentation agent, even if they just register it in their state, as I want to be sure they get it properly registered and I get it completely out of my name. Someone buys a boat and doesn't do anything for a while and it's in an accident or something and suddenly people come for you to pay.

It's really similar to selling a car. People often do so and the buyer doesn't immediately title and register it in their name. The seller ends up with tickets and fines and maybe even accident claims.

An orderly transition of ownership is important to both buyer and seller. Good documentation agencies can make sure that is done. Otherwise, you must make sure yourself.

 

[Comodave]

And with that $25 you can boat for 15 minutes. I'd pay $25 anytime not to have the ugly numbers on and not to have to deal with putting them on, some falling off, and every other issue.

But back to topic. One thing I hope all sellers get out of this is the importance of getting it out of your name. As a seller, I want the buyer to use my documentation agent, even if they just register it in their state, as I want to be sure they get it properly registered and I get it completely out of my name. Someone buys a boat and doesn't do anything for a while and it's in an accident or something and suddenly people come for you to pay.

It's really similar to selling a car. People often do so and the buyer doesn't immediately title and register it in their name. The seller ends up with tickets and fines and maybe even accident claims.

An orderly transition of ownership is important to both buyer and seller. Good documentation agencies can make sure that is done. Otherwise, you must make sure yourself.

Had similar thing like that happen to me with a truck. I sold it to a dealer and they were supposed to handle the paperwork but they didn’t and then they resold the truck. Nobody charged the title and registration out of my name. About 1.5 years later the Tucson police called me asking what my truck was doing around 4 or 5 crime scenes. I told them I had sold the truck and who bought it. Never heard anymore on it but it could have been bad if they had an accident.

 

[ProMaritime]

Correct about state "titling". However, a USCG documented vessel should not display state numbers on its hull, only the state tax decal if applicable.

 

[Bacchus]

And with that $25 you can boat for 15 minutes. I'd pay $25 anytime not to have the ugly numbers on and not to have to deal with putting them on, some falling off, and every other issue.

But back to topic. One thing I hope all sellers get out of this is the importance of getting it out of your name. As a seller, I want the buyer to use my documentation agent, even if they just register it in their state, as I want to be sure they get it properly registered and I get it completely out of my name. Someone buys a boat and doesn't do anything for a while and it's in an accident or something and suddenly people come for you to pay.

It's really similar to selling a car. People often do so and the buyer doesn't immediately title and register it in their name. The seller ends up with tickets and fines and maybe even accident claims.

An orderly transition of ownership is important to both buyer and seller. Good documentation agencies can make sure that is done. Otherwise, you must make sure yourself.

Had similar thing like that happen to me with a truck. I sold it to a dealer and they were supposed to handle the paperwork but they didn’t and then they resold the truck. Nobody charged the title and registration out of my name. About 1.5 years later the Tucson police called me asking what my truck was doing around 4 or 5 crime scenes. I told them I had sold the truck and who bought it. Never heard anymore on it but it could have been bad if they had an accident.

I think the above misses or glosses over the need for SELLER to undocument when buyer isn't interested in continuing with documentation.

 

[BandB]

I think the above misses or glosses over the need for SELLER to undocument when buyer isn't interested in continuing with documentation.

By removing from their name, I included undocument. Two ways to remove from name. One way is transfer ownership, the other is undocument. A documentation agent will insure one is done if seller isn't handling themselves.

Still, not so simple for someone just doing once, and very easy for an agent who does it daily.

 

[ProMaritime]

I don't understand all the fuss with using transfer agents or specialists to transfer ownership of a USCG documented vessel. USCG forms are simple to understand and easy to fill out. The accept credit card payments online. US Coast Guard personnel are all sharp and willing to help out the confused. There are boat owners who get hooked into paying up to $75 to for-profit businesses (I won't call them fraudsters) to do their annual renewals. Some do it gladly even though they know the USCG charges only $26.

There is an official backlog of processing for all USCG paperwork, but the for-profit bunch can't do it any faster. In fact, they might even be slower simply because they save up piles of applications and them batch feed them to the Coast Guard for the same processing you can get for $26.

 

[BandB]

I don't understand all the fuss with using transfer agents or specialists to transfer ownership of a USCG documented vessel. USCG forms are simple to understand and easy to fill out. The accept credit card payments online. US Coast Guard personnel are all sharp and willing to help out the confused. There are boat owners who get hooked into paying up to $75 to for-profit businesses (I won't call them fraudsters) to do their annual renewals. Some do it gladly even though they know the USCG charges only $26.

There is an official backlog of processing for all USCG paperwork, but the for-profit bunch can't do it any faster. In fact, they might even be slower simply because they save up piles of applications and them batch feed them to the Coast Guard for the same processing you can get for $26.

I'm not talking the $75 group that just submits. I'll talking legitimate documentation agencies that charge more but submit all state and US items and make sure all are done correctly. You sign over your document to someone else and trust them to follow through and you have no assurance. Complying with state laws can be a challenge. Proper use of requesting expedited processing may be involved. Making sure liens are removed or new ones properly recorded is important. If previously registered, but now documented, there's a state title and state liens to check for, not as easy as on a documented boat. Making sure a title is clean of any liens is very valuable as a mechanic could have filed for a lien. We've found a legitimate Documentation Agency to be very fast and thorough and prevent mistakes while individuals may have no issued but a lot of times they get something sent back for a Bill of Sale the CG doesn't like or some other issue. Many documentation agencies also serve as escrow agencies.

I've known one small mistake to turn a documentation into a many months long ordeal. I heard one owner complaining as it was a simple error on the bill of sale. Just one problem in the 4 months since the sale. The previous owner was now deceased. A documentation agency would have caught it immediately. Most rejections are minor technical matters like something in the wrong place or something not filled in or an outdated form or expired documentation.

Now, to many, it may not be worth it. In the simplest situations, perhaps not to me. The one sale we made, I felt it was worth it to be sure we were completely off of everything and the new owner was in place. On purchases or new boats, dealing with Builders' Certificate, and with need for expediting due to taking out of the country, and with careful handling of state registration to avoid needing to register in a different state, it was worth it for the peace of mine.

Not saying you're wrong, ProMaritime, just explaining our logic.

 

[ranger58sb]

I don't understand all the fuss with using transfer agents or specialists to transfer ownership of a USCG documented vessel. USCG forms are simple to understand and easy to fill out. The accept credit card payments online. US Coast Guard personnel are all sharp and willing to help out the confused. There are boat owners who get hooked into paying up to $75 to for-profit businesses (I won't call them fraudsters) to do their annual renewals. Some do it gladly even though they know the USCG charges only $26.

There is an official backlog of processing for all USCG paperwork, but the for-profit bunch can't do it any faster. In fact, they might even be slower simply because they save up piles of applications and them batch feed them to the Coast Guard for the same processing you can get for $26.

Our financer mandated using a documentation agency. Their own. We understand that's common in a finance situation.

This is not the same as the almost-scammers...

-Chris

 

[psneeld]

For as many errors I have found done by title companies in house closing documents, and recent dealings with accountants banks and insurance companies.... I don't have much faith in "professional" services these days when the task is simple enough to do myself and I trust my own proofreading.

Corporate and LLC sales/documentation would be a different story.

 

[Circumnavigator]

Is a radio license required for travel into International waters (Mexico) for a vhf? One of the problems with the Internet is that things never go away, all of the threads I can find on the topic are old.

It looks like both a radio license and a radio operators license are required to transmit outside of the US water...

Yes. To use any transmitter internationally (except maybe an EPIRB, but the question is academic) you need an FCC station (ie boat) license and at least one person with a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit. The former costs a few bucks and comes the next day by email. My wife and I have had RROPs for fifty years, so it may be different now, but then (and now, I think) you need only sign a statement that you have read, understand, and will obey the rules and pay a fee. The RROP is good for life.


Jim

 

[Hippocampus]

Same with us Jim as I previously stated and required for SSB usage if you’re not already a ham.

Have used the same documentation/title service for every boat purchase. In our litigious world rather they be on the hook should there be troubles in the future. Have documented every one of my boats including the few that I knew would not see international service. Yes because I don’t like numbers on a boat but also to not have issues with tax deduction if there was a loan and to know there’s no issue with clear title and lack of encumbrances. Without being documented except for a vey rare country it’s next to impossible to be granted practique.

 

[Circumnavigator]

Same with us Jim as I previously stated and required for SSB usage if you’re not already a ham.

Without being documented except for a vey rare country it’s next to impossible to be granted practique.

While I have documented all of our boats that qualified, I disagree with the comment above. On our circumnav we certainly saw boats that had numbers on their bows and were therefore presumably not documented.


Hippocampus, could we have the name of your documentation service?


I should have added above that if your boat is longer that 20 meters -- 65 feet -- it no longer qualifies as "voluntarily equipped" and therefore requires an FCC station license for all transmitters, including radar and VHF.


Jim

 

[Hippocampus]

Vessel Documentation Service

The issue is many countries will not accept state registration as proof of ownership. So although state registration maybe accepted unless you can prove ownership to their satisfaction (which is apparently is hard to do) they won’t grant practique. Would need to search noonsite but think Canada and Bahamas maybe exceptions. Similarly even though you may have sailed across an ocean some countries require a ICC-certificate of competence or RYA certification to allow you to operate a vessel in their waters. The lower levels of US captains licenses nor typical sailing/power squadron courses won’t serve to my understanding.

 

[Hippocampus]

Found this language in noonsite

Boat Registration

It is an international requirement that all vessels (including trailed sailboats) outside their home waters are properly registered. Many countries have a simpler (and cheaper) option to register a boat other than the more involved commercial register.

In the United States yachts can either be registered with the state where the owner lives or if ownership can be traced to the original owner, the vessel can be documented with the Coast Guard. The latter is generally preferable if possible when cruising abroad.

Note: USCG vessel documentation and renewals can now be done online. Read more at this noonsite news report.

 

[ProMaritime]

Like Dirty Harry (Clint Eastwood) said in that movie: "A man has to know his limitations."

 

[BandB]

In the United States yachts can either be registered with the state where the owner lives or if ownership can be traced to the original owner, the vessel can be documented with the Coast Guard. The latter is generally preferable if possible when cruising abroad.

.

Canada, Bahamas, and generally Mexico are no problems with state registrations. Technically, no country should be, but the comments I've heard are of the nature, "It doesn't look official." Agents are use to seeing Certificates of Documentation which have a certain general appearance. In 2015, we cleared into Guatemala with no problem using our COD. There was a boat next to us with obviously a problem. I figured with all the walking back and forth it was something serious as they were talking before we arrived and still after we had cleared. I hesitated to even get near them. I did notice the numbers on the side of his boat. Finally the agent said something in Spanish that someone with me translated which was to the nature of "They need a registration like that boat has (speaking of us). Their piece of paper doesn't even have the United States on it " I asked if I could assist in some way and he said "yes, explain to the captain what a registration should look like." I asked the agent if he'd grab the guys registration and join me a moment, perhaps he'd like some cake. I sit with him and explain I'd like to give he and the others a small token for all the trouble they've had and then I think I can explain things. After laying out five 20's, I explained the US was crazy and the Federal Government also allowed the states to register boats. I explained his was legally registered in Rhode Island and the way you could tell a boat was state registered was the "ugly" numbers on the side. Otherwise it would just have a state sticker like we had or nothing. He finished his cake and told another guy to clear the boat in, that it was ok. The owner walked over and asked what I said or did. Turns out he'd been going back and forth over 4 hours and they were waiting for another agent to arrive. I don't know why he had so much trouble. Perhaps he made it antagonistic and didn't show proper respect.

I use agents in foreign countries other than Canada and the Bahamas. Really smooths the process. I don't know if it was the cake, or the $100, or sitting down in a non confrontational setting, or that my translator (needed very little) was beautiful that helped. He was legal, but he had to convince an agent of that and was failing to do so.

That's why Noonsite says documentation is preferable if traveling to other countries.