Purchasing boat sight unseen

[tadsheldon]

Hi, all,

Just a query on my part.

As everyone knows, the boat market is really hot right now, although maybe not as hot as a year ago. We are considering making an offer on a boat sight unseen. The seller had a buyer that went all the way to sea trial and then walked. The surveyor on the sea trial has told me this boat is very clean. Except for one or two things this boat is pretty much what we are looking for.

I'm thinking of making an offer contingent on the following:
- Successful sea trial
- Acceptable marine survey
- Acceptable engine survey
- Ability to successfully transfer USCG documentation to us

We are looking to do the loop in 2023, so we have time if this doesn't go through.

Thoughts?

 

[SteveK]

Link to the boat might get an opinion. One thumb down already hearing another buyer went all the way and walked after sea trial.

 

[klee wyck]

Hi, all,

Just a query on my part.

As everyone knows, the boat market is really hot right now, although maybe not as hot as a year ago. We are considering making an offer on a boat sight unseen. The seller had a buyer that went all the way to sea trial and then walked. The surveyor on the sea trial has told me this boat is very clean. Except for one or two things this boat is pretty much what we are looking for.

I'm thinking of making an offer contingent on the following:
- Successful sea trial
- Acceptable marine survey
- Acceptable engine survey
- Ability to successfully transfer USCG documentation to us

We are looking to do the loop in 2023, so we have time if this doesn't go through.

Thoughts?

I have done this and see almost no risk in it. I think it is a useful approach and has worked out for me.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

You could also make an offer contingent on a successful walk through by either you or another person acting as your agent, with some specific conditions. As I understand it, and in my recent experience, some buyers won’t allow a walk through without some earnest indication in place. Turnabout should be fair.

 

[tadsheldon]

Agreed. If I was a seller (and I have been twice), a prospective buyer can look at the boat, but anything else requires an earnest money offer.

You could also make an offer contingent on a successful walk through by either you or another person acting as your agent, with some specific conditions. As I understand it, and in my recent experience, some buyers won’t allow a walk through without some earnest indication in place. Turnabout should be fair.

 

[Jeff F]

Go for it. Specify dates for contingencies and keep them as tight as possible to make the offer more attractive to the seller.

 

[ksanders]

Geez

Why not just fly there, you need maybe a day at the most on the ground.

You can't be that busy that you cannot take the time to go see the boat.

 

[STB]

You aren't buying a boat sight unseen if you've got those contingencies. Just be there for the sea trial and haul out.

There is risk here, but most of it isn't yours. If you show up on the morning the inspections begin and don't like it, you cancel the party. You loose your inspection fees, but probably save the haul fee and might get some discount on the inspections for the cancelation.

The seller, on the other hand, looses a lot of market opportunity.

As a seller, I wouldn't take an offer from a buyer who hadn't seen it. I told them I'd delay accepting any offer (except full price, no contingency, which I'd have to accept) for a few days or a week for them to come visit. They visited, offered over ask, and the deal was done.

 

[SteveK]

Post 8, agreed. Red Flag in this market if a seller accepts those terms.

 

[BandB]

You aren't buying a boat sight unseen if you've got those contingencies. .

You are taking an option to purchase for all practical purposes. Doing so sight unseen is only the risk of the cost of survey and sea trial. You have no commitment to actually buy the boat. So safe. It it was a boat I liked and I couldn't get there immediately, I'd do it.

 

[backinblue]

I'd wonder why the previous buyer bailed at the last minute, but as long you you are protected and can back out with a full refund at any time, what's the risk?

 

[Frosty]

I'm confused about the "purchasing sight unseen" part. That is the title of the thread, but you then describe making an offer sight unseen. Do you mean you would also do the full purchase without looking at the boat?

I have done that with smaller boats (rowing shell, etc.), but recently had the "opportunity" to do the same with a larger boat and ultimately could not bring myself to do it.

In this case the boat was in Canada (I'm in the US), so the entire thing would have been done without me ever setting foot on the boat (survey, video tour, sure, but not actually being on it).

The boat looked very nice, and I had a lot of photos, but.... I decided that was not for me. I realized I have to *smell* the boat, touch the boat, etc. in order to be comfortable spending upwards of $100k.

That said, I'm sure people do it all the time.

(And I might have as well, if it were a one-of-a-kind boat. But this was relatively common boat of which I'm sure another one will turn up in the US, and/or later the border will open so I could look at one there.)

Making an offer sight unseen contingent upon, among other things, personal inspection? That seems run of the mill, especially if it's either convenient to you or you can get good photos ahead of offering.

 

[firehoser75]

Tad,

If it were me, I would have to know why the previous "offer" fell though, why did the buyer walk after survey and sea trial?
If I was happy with the answer given (it made sense to me and did not seem a big deal or the owner had "repaired" the problem), I would do as you stated. Your only risk is the expenses involved in travel to the boat's location and the usual expenses of survey, sea trial, etc.
Good luck,

 

[janice142]

When it came to my Seaweed I paid a broker ($75, 14 years ago) to go to the boat and tell me two things.

#1) were the pictures accurate/current?

and

#2) on a walk through did he see any Red Flags that would take her out of consideration?

I did not expect him to crawl through the bilges, start engines or anything like that. What I paid for in essence was for him to be my eyes. From that point after his positive report, a week later I came across the state in order to be present for the survey/sea trial.

Now back then I was just out of chemo, so I was still fighting the brain fog... I was fragile, and so fortunate. Seaweed had bones I could work with. Today she is nothing like the virtually abandoned boat I bought way back when.

Good luck Cap'n.

 

[tadsheldon]

I'm confused about the "purchasing sight unseen" part. That is the title of the thread, but you then describe making an offer sight unseen. Do you mean you would also do the full purchase without looking at the boat?

I have done that with smaller boats (rowing shell, etc.), but recently had the "opportunity" to do the same with a larger boat and ultimately could not bring myself to do it.

In this case the boat was in Canada (I'm in the US), so the entire thing would have been done without me ever setting foot on the boat (survey, video tour, sure, but not actually being on it).

The boat looked very nice, and I had a lot of photos, but.... I decided that was not for me. I realized I have to *smell* the boat, touch the boat, etc. in order to be comfortable spending upwards of $100k.

That said, I'm sure people do it all the time.

(And I might have as well, if it were a one-of-a-kind boat. But this was relatively common boat of which I'm sure another one will turn up in the US, and/or later the border will open so I could look at one there.)

Making an offer sight unseen contingent upon, among other things, personal inspection? That seems run of the mill, especially if it's either convenient to you or you can get good photos ahead of offering.

Good point. I’m an engineer so my vernacular lacks. Title should read making offer sight unseen.

 

[slowgoesit]

We did it in December of last year. Offer with standard contingencies, sight unseen, but a LOT of talking to both broker, and Seller. Also Face Time with broker on the boat, and lots of pics from the Seller while he was on the boat. Survey in early January. Closed end of January. The boat was everything and more that we thought it would be. Broker was stand up and helpful. Sellers . . . well I can't imagine better people than the Sellers. We'll try really hard to live up to their faith in us!

 

[Frosty]

Good point. I’m an engineer so my vernacular lacks. Title should read making offer sight unseen.

Then I'd say it's fairly routine. Usually the offer is contingent upon a few things (which you can specify). Typical ones are survey, engine survey, financing (sometimes), and personal inspection.

Every offer I've ever seen, you have a specific amount of time to get these things done (say, 21 days), and closing should be by a certain date. If anything doesn't work out to your approval, your deposit is refunded to you.

That said, once the seller has accepted your offer, they basically have to continue with you until you either buy the boat, or refuse it within the specified time frame (hence why people say you are securing an option to buy with an accepted offer). I try to be sensitive to that and (obviously) not make frivolous offers, and also keep things moving along. If I'm not going to end up buying the boat, I don't want to drag things out for either myself or the seller.

So I usually try to do the personal inspection first (after accepted offer, if long distance, especially in this market). Surveyors may be busy, and I can often get there first. Then too, if there's some obvious "nope" once I see it, I'm not paying for the survey and the seller can move on along without delay.

The better intel you get ahead of the offer obviously the lower chance of surprises. I ask for high resolution current photos (i.e. NOT Yachtworld's 50 pixel jobbies), and it's amazing what you can see when you zoom in.

Another thing I have found helpful is if the broker will do a live video walk-through (this has become pretty common during COVID). Reason I say live not pre-made is that if it's live I can say, oh, can you open that hatch? What's that brown thing above xyz? Can you zoom in on that? What's in that corner? Etc. Still can't smell it but maybe someday we'll have that ability...

 

[Shrew]

You could also make an offer contingent on a successful walk through by either you or another person acting as your agent, with some specific conditions. As I understand it, and in my recent experience, some buyers won’t allow a walk through without some earnest indication in place. Turnabout should be fair.

Anything is possible, but I've never heard of a seller not allowing a prospective buyer to SEE (a.k.a "walk-through") the boat. That would seem completely unreasonable to almost anyone.

It is VERY common to not allow a survey or a sea-trial without a signed P&S and earnest money offered.

 

[Mako]

Anything is possible, but I've never heard of a seller not allowing a prospective buyer to SEE (a.k.a "walk-through") the boat. That would seem completely unreasonable to almost anyone.



It is VERY common to not allow a survey or a sea-trial without a signed P&S and earnest money offered.

I ran into that situation here with a TF member selling his boat. Said that if he was going allow me to bring a surveyor then he’d want another $15k on top of our agreed price. My wife and I couldn’t stop laughing walking back to our car and driving 3 freakin hours home.

Idiots with big things to hide!

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Anything is possible, but I've never heard of a seller not allowing a prospective buyer to SEE (a.k.a "walk-through") the boat. That would seem completely unreasonable to almost anyone.

It is VERY common to not allow a survey or a sea-trial without a signed P&S and earnest money offered.

I think it is a device to dissuade "tire kickers" from wasting time. As mentioned above, there really isn't a downside I guess, so long as it is written properly to allow one to walk away relatively easily.

So as B&B mentioned, though it might be written as an "offer" it is really an option to hold the boat until you can get there to see it, except that the consideration is fully refundable. It signals a level of seriousness to make a seller comfortable to pause the sale to other buyers.

Would I do it as a seller? Don't know. Would I enter into one as a buyer? We'll see I guess

 

[Shrew]

I ran into that situation here with a TF member selling his boat. Said that if he was going allow me to bring a surveyor then he’d want another $15k on top of our agreed price. My wife and I couldn’t stop laughing walking back to our car and driving 3 freakin hours home.

Idiots with big things to hide!

I can see how a seller might ask for earnest money prior to a Survey, but that would be subtracted from the asking price....not ADDED. That almost seems like he mis-spoke.

 

[Mako]

I can see how a seller might ask for earnest money prior to a Survey, but that would be subtracted from the asking price....not ADDED. That almost seems like he mis-spoke.

He was hiding things. Admitted to a recently failed sale after survey.

 

[backinblue]

I'm trying to understand what an additional deposit required for a survey does for the seller? Yes it prevents tire-kickers, but if the buyer is paying for the survey what's the risk to the seller? Sure he will likely find issues, but the seller is not forced to fix them or sell at the agreed upon price regardless. The seller could walk away just like the buyer can.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: Talked to an acquaintance this weekend who is selling her home. She thought go for top price with the boom. Well, asked $389 and texted me it was sold at full price. A day later, fell through. Then sold at $365 and two days later, no sale. Then $370 and you get the drift, it fell through. Then another $370 and it hasn't fallen through yet. Point is houses have similar inspections and basically are options as well. The majority never close. And all those above asking prices are often people making offers on one house after another just to hold it for themselves for a few days. Like boats, it's quite one sided toward the buyer. Only difference is cost of survey.

 

[OkSkipper]

A couple of points (been in the business over 20 years):

It is not at all uncommon in today's market to make an offer or even go to closing on a boat, sight unseen. We sold several last year that way. All with good outcomes. We used Facetime or Skype to be able to do a walkthrough of the boat and have the client ask questions about things they saw. The buyer is hiring a surveyor (of their choosing from NAMS or SAMS) that can give the buyer assurances or point things out that need addressing. The seatrial can even be accomplished with only the surveyor and a skipper aboard. Again, using technology to either video or do a live stream. Of course, its always better if you can inspect the boat yourself, but that is not always practical or possible.

As to the contingency of having the USCG documentation transferred, there is no need because the documentation will be a new application, not a transfer of an existing one. We have sold may boats over the years where the documentation had expired. With new documentation it is taking quite awhile to get the actual document these days. The documentation company will issue you a "running letter" that allows you to use the boat while waiting for the actual document.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[HypnoBob]

Under what conditions would you not move forward with the purchase? Make your list of these contingencies, including the standard ones you listed above.

Be sure to include a renegotiation if repairs needed as a result of the survey exceed some predetermined level.

 

[CarlF]

I’d do a Skype or zoom video walkthrough where you can tell the broker what to point the camera at. You’ll know a lot in 20 minutes.

If it still interests you, then make an offer with a deposit and your listed covenants. That will keep someone else from getting it with still no risk to you. The survey results always gives you enough excuse if you want to get your deposit back.

Be there in person for the survey as the surveyor will explain things to you far better than the written report. Remember that your insurance company will get the survey reports and will want a boatyard receipt showing everything was fixed before they’ll insure you. Best to let the surveyor tell you minor issues and leave them out of the report.

 

[klee wyck]

A couple of points (been in the business over 20 years):

It is not at all uncommon in today's market to make an offer or even go to closing on a boat, sight unseen. We sold several last year that way. All with good outcomes. We used Facetime or Skype to be able to do a walkthrough of the boat and have the client ask questions about things they saw. The buyer is hiring a surveyor (of their choosing from NAMS or SAMS) that can give the buyer assurances or point things out that need addressing. The seatrial can even be accomplished with only the surveyor and a skipper aboard. Again, using technology to either video or do a live stream. Of course, its always better if you can inspect the boat yourself, but that is not always practical or possible.

As to the contingency of having the USCG documentation transferred, there is no need because the documentation will be a new application, not a transfer of an existing one. We have sold may boats over the years where the documentation had expired. With new documentation it is taking quite awhile to get the actual document these days. The documentation company will issue you a "running letter" that allows you to use the boat while waiting for the actual document.

Hope this is helpful.

I bought Domino under the exact circumstances referred to in the top paragraph here, sight unseen. The owners and broker were very willing and very adept at video of all aspects of the boat, including underway.
And, likely the only reason I was still in the market when Domino came along, is that the owner and broker for a 68 foot aluminum monohull that was 2000 miles closer to me but across an international boundary were not as good at making me comfortable under those conditions.

Lucky for me....

 

[Bryant]

Sight unseen

Hi, all,

Just a query on my part.

As everyone knows, the boat market is really hot right now, although maybe not as hot as a year ago. We are considering making an offer on a boat sight unseen. The seller had a buyer that went all the way to sea trial and then walked. The surveyor on the sea trial has told me this boat is very clean. Except for one or two things this boat is pretty much what we are looking for.

I'm thinking of making an offer contingent on the following:
- Successful sea trial
- Acceptable marine survey
- Acceptable engine survey
- Ability to successfully transfer USCG documentation to us

We are looking to do the loop in 2023, so we have time if this doesn't go through.

Thoughts?

When you say “all the way to sea trial” I’m confused. Typically I walk through a boat, then sea trial it then survey. Was the reverse process used in this case? If the previous buyer had already done the haul out and survey then walked after the sea trial having already spent $1000 or more, that would be a huge red flag to me. But, If he just did the sea trial, he might have decided the boat is to big for him or to small or just got cold feet. I’d need to know a little more. Otherwise, your offer with those contingencies is reasonable, although I would add “successful walk through” by you since I assume you would be there for the sea trial. You might see something that would cause you to not waste your time and money on the rest.
If however you are saying that you would never see the boat till it’s delivered and you’re just taking everyone else’s word, under no circumstances would I do that. You might wind up buying a perfectly sound boat that you can’t stand because of its handling characteristics or how it rides through the water. For this size of investment and commitment, you need to be involved at some point prior to purchase.

 

[Donna]

This is an interesting thread. I very recently purchased another boat. My dream boat went pending. I asked my broker to call me if the sale didn’t go through. It didn’t go through. The people purchasing the boat did it all. Full survey, sea trial and then found out, they couldn’t get financing. I swooped in and offered a cash deal. Drove 4 hours, stayed 2 days and did a sea trial.

Currently waiting to pick her up. She is on the hard for bottom paint and a stabilizer issue. Not at my expense.