Progressive vs Gallagher Charter Lakes

[lewismd007]

Just purchased my 1982 KK42 and im shopping for insurance. So far the 2 quotes I've gotten back are Progressive (through jim horton @jack martin associates) and Gallagher Charter Lakes.

Both quotes are almost the same, just wondering if anyone has had good/bad experiences with either company? Has anyone had trouble with either company dropping older boats?

 

[Gulf Comanche]

Ive had Progressive for 13 years through USAA. Have never made a claim so I cant say if they’re good/bad. But, USAA has been great down through many years so I hope that if I ever have to make a claim they’ll be as good as USAA. I figured if USAA took them on they’ll be decent to work with.

 

[Pau Hana]

Progressive is an insuring company, while Charter Lakes is a brokerage.

Progressive has limited pollution coverage, and very limited personal effect and medical coverages. They also limit coverage on older boats to $40k.

Bottom line- read the fine print, and don't confuse a low premium as a good deal with solidn marine coverage.

 

[BDofMSP]

Mr Lewismd,

Since you're fairly new to the forum I'd encourage you to heed the advice of Pau Hana. He's an expert in this area and has helped many of us here on TF. Myself included.
BD

 

[GFC]

+1 to the advice above. I used an insurance broker for my boat because I wanted super coverage more than a cheap premium.

Talk to an insurance broker, explain what you want and ask him to explain the diff between a "boat policy" and a "yacht policy". The diffs will amaze you, but that's what an insurance broker does best--he explains more than just what the premium is.

In the 12+ years I used a broker in Seattle they changed my coverage from one company to another twice because I could get better coverage. If you want to be well covered, don't quibble about paying for it.

 

[AlanT]

Progressive is an insuring company, while Charter Lakes is a brokerage.

Progressive has limited pollution coverage, and very limited personal effect and medical coverages. They also limit coverage on older boats to $40k.

Bottom line- read the fine print, and don't confuse a low premium as a good deal with solid marine coverage.

+1 I agree with all the above.

Here are some things you will want to know/compare:
~ Is coverage on an agreed value basis or will it be depreciated to actual cash value at time of loss? (Commonly referenced as the difference between Yacht policy and boat policy).
~ Are you covered for resultant damage from machinery breakdown etc. (if your boat sinks because the shaft seal broke is it covered?) Many policies have machinery breakdown exclusions with no coverage for resultant events/damage.
~ Is the pollution & P&I limit sufficient for it to be scheduled as an underlying coverage to your personal umbrella policy (if you have one)?
~ What is the coverage for your tender?

Have fun!

~A

 

[lewismd007]

Progressive is an insuring company, while Charter Lakes is a brokerage.

Progressive has limited pollution coverage, and very limited personal effect and medical coverages. They also limit coverage on older boats to $40k.

Bottom line- read the fine print, and don't confuse a low premium as a good deal with solidn marine coverage.

Pau, Thanks for helping me out. Below is my progressive quote (I got this through jack martin associates) Can you please help me understand the $40k coverage you stated?



Length: 42 Hull material: Fiberglass Garaging/Mooring Zip Code: 20765 State: MD Use: Pleasure Use Exclusively Propulsion type: Inboard Number of motors: 2 Total horsepower: 240 Limits Deductible Premium ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. $224 Bodily Injury and Property Damage Liability $500,000 combined single limit each accident Liability To Others Includes Fuel Spill Liability ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Uninsured Boater $500,000 combined single limit each accident 61 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Medical Payments $25,000 each person 45 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Comprehensive Agreed Value $130,000 $2,500 1,072 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Collision Agreed Value $130,000 $2,500 369 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Included with Comprehensive and Collision: Disappearing Deductible Wreckage Removal Marine Electronics ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Sign & Glide® 30 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Coastal Navigation 75 Nautical Miles included ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Replacement Cost Personal Effects $5,000 $250 16 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Hurricane Haul Out Selected 20 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Total premium for 1982 Kadey Krogen $1,837 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Total 12 month policy premium, with paid in full discount $1,837

 

[AlanT]

An observation.

In the USA most of us boat owners are or have been homeowners, and as such we are accustomed to purchasing homeowners insurance. Most of us have never read those policies and consequently when we migrate to boats we tend, also, not to read those policies.

There is an important difference however. In every state homeowners policies and the coverages that they contain are regulated by the State's Insurance commissioner. In consequence all homeowners policies contain coverage that is standardized across the country. There are additional coverages that can be purchased, but the basic coverages are all formulated to comply with the state insurance commission.

Boat or Yacht insurance is completely different. While it is subject to the regulation of state insurance commissions there are no mandated coverage forms or coverages. An insurer is free to design a policy that meets their needs and it is up to us to determine if that policy also meets our needs as boat owners.

My advice is always require a copy of the policy form before signing up. Any insurer/broker/agent will be happy to send a pro forma policy. It will only take half an hour to read and you will learn for example whether you are getting coverage for your boat sinking when the sinking occurs as a result of machinery breakdown or wear and tear (for example).

By way of a practical example. Chubb has a reputation as a 'good' insurer. They have a good policy form. Their "Yacht Select" policy covers this resultant loss. However their "Yacht" policy is cheaper and does not cover this.

Its a pretty significant difference that would not be apparent to anyone unless (1) They read their policy form or (2) They are represented by a good broker (Such as Pau) who will be happy to point out differences between coverages - FOR HIS CLIENTS.

~A

 

[Pau Hana]

Pau, Thanks for helping me out. Below is my progressive quote (I got this through jack martin associates) Can you please help me understand the $40k coverage you stated?



Length: 42 Hull material: Fiberglass Garaging/Mooring Zip Code: 20765 State: MD Use: Pleasure Use Exclusively Propulsion type: Inboard Number of motors: 2 Total horsepower: 240 Limits Deductible Premium ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. $224 Bodily Injury and Property Damage Liability $500,000 combined single limit each accident Liability To Others Includes Fuel Spill Liability ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Uninsured Boater $500,000 combined single limit each accident 61 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Medical Payments $25,000 each person 45 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Comprehensive Agreed Value $130,000 $2,500 1,072 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Collision Agreed Value $130,000 $2,500 369 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Included with Comprehensive and Collision: Disappearing Deductible Wreckage Removal Marine Electronics ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Sign & Glide® 30 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Coastal Navigation 75 Nautical Miles included ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Replacement Cost Personal Effects $5,000 $250 16 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Hurricane Haul Out Selected 20 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Total premium for 1982 Kadey Krogen $1,837 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Total 12 month policy premium, with paid in full discount $1,837

The attached is what we have as the Progressive quoting parameters; this link is from the Progressive website:

https://www.progressive.com/boat/

Insurance limitations for boats and PWCs
When it comes to boat insurance, Progressive boasts some of the broadest acceptability in the business. But there are some types of vessels that can’t be added to a new or existing Progressive policy:

Boats over 10 years old and worth more than $500,000 Boats 11-20 years old and worth more than $250,000 Boats more than 20 years old and worth more than $60,000.

In either case, the 1982 boat at $130k agreed value falls outside the published Progressive quote parameters, so I'm a bit confused. Email me at peter@novamar.net- I'd like to discuss further.

 

[lewismd007]

The attached is what we have as the Progressive quoting parameters; this link is from the Progressive website:

https://www.progressive.com/boat/

Insurance limitations for boats and PWCs
When it comes to boat insurance, Progressive boasts some of the broadest acceptability in the business. But there are some types of vessels that can’t be added to a new or existing Progressive policy:

Boats over 10 years old and worth more than $500,000 Boats 11-20 years old and worth more than $250,000 Boats more than 20 years old and worth more than $60,000.

In either case, the 1982 boat at $130k agreed value falls outside the published Progressive quote parameters, so I'm a bit confused. Email me at peter@novamar.net- I'd like to discuss further.

Peter, I called my broker (Jon Horton @ Jack Martin Associates) and asked him your specific question as I had previously been denied by progressive when I called them directly. He said he is one of 5 brokers in the country who can insure older boats with up to $150k agreed value with progressive. Jon came HIGHLY recommended through this forum.


Also, my other quote is the merkel, but I think I am going to go with progressive.

 

[Pau Hana]

I know Jon Horton- he is a good guy. If you can get that is writing, all the better!

That said, I see Progressive as a secondary market- their coverages are not as desirable compared to what others offer (ie., pollution liability is a part of the overall liability coverage, instead of a separate standalone sublimit of $997,100 to meet the Federal mandate of the Oil Pollution Act of 1990, or medical coverage limited to $10k vice $25k, and personal effects coverage limited to $5k vice $10k (or greater)). If there is another market (such as Chubb, Markel, Travelers, etc) available, they are worth looking into. Was the vessel surveyed as part of the purchase process? Is there an ownership history issue (first owned larger vessel)?

Also, the terms "Comprehensive" and 'Collision" are automotive insurance terms, and not maritime terms. Marine policies use "Total Loss" and "Partial Loss".This sounds insignificant, but the maritime terms are definitely more inclusive than the automotive terms.

Again- always read the policy so you know what you're getting into.

 

[lewismd007]

I know Jon Horton- he is a good guy. If you can get that is writing, all the better!

That said, I see Progressive as a secondary market- their coverages are not as desirable compared to what others offer (ie., pollution liability is a part of the overall liability coverage, instead of a separate standalone sublimit of $997,100 to meet the Federal mandate of the Oil Pollution Act of 1990, or medical coverage limited to $10k vice $25k, and personal effects coverage limited to $5k vice $10k (or greater)). If there is another market (such as Chubb, Markel, Travelers, etc) available, they are worth looking into. Was the vessel surveyed as part of the purchase process? Is there an ownership history issue (first owned larger vessel)?

Also, the terms "Comprehensive" and 'Collision" are automotive insurance terms, and not maritime terms. Marine policies use "Total Loss" and "Partial Loss".This sounds insignificant, but the maritime terms are definitely more inclusive than the automotive terms.

Again- always read the policy so you know what you're getting

into.

I appreciate what your saying...but I could only get 2 quotes PERIOD for my 1982 KK42, so while I wish I could be more picky...that's all I can get In addition to jack martin and gallagher great lakes, I called BoatUS/Geico, Latitude 34, and progessive....none of them would cover a boat my age.

 

[Pau Hana]

I appreciate what your saying...but I could only get 2 quotes PERIOD for my 1982 KK42, so while I wish I could be more picky...that's all I can get In addition to jack martin and gallagher great lakes, I called BoatUS/Geico, Latitude 34, and progessive....none of them would cover a boat my age.

Just sent a PM to you...