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Old 04-25-2022, 11:04 PM   #1
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PNW Trawler Market - Prices

I see asking prices quite high. Looking at older (around 40 yrs old) Taiwanese boats.
Is it possible that they appreciated over last 5-8 years? I thought you always lose money on old boats.
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Old 04-25-2022, 11:33 PM   #2
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Not in this market. Time will tell in the future.
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Old 04-25-2022, 11:48 PM   #3
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I think there will always be a market on well designed, well maintained trawlers, regardless of age. The major drawback to the age IMHO, is recent changes in the insurance industry that may leave people scrambling to find affordable, quality insurance in some geographical areas.
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Old 04-26-2022, 12:56 AM   #4
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So, is say 45% appreciation over last 6 yrs something to be expected in today's market ?
Or would it be too optimistic?
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Old 04-26-2022, 01:16 AM   #5
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So, is say 45% appreciation over last 6 yrs something to be expected in today's market ?
Or would it be too optimistic?
Short term yes, then expect a sudden drop when conditions change and people dump luxury items to pay the mortgage.

Not sure about 45% over 6 years, I see 45% over last 3-4 years though around here.
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Old 04-26-2022, 05:22 AM   #6
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Normal trends are a buyers market, though the percentage varies wildly. Some brands such as Nordhavn have defended their resale values exceptionally well. Ar the other end are custom one-off designs (unicorns) that take forever to sell and see steep decline.

From time to time an event disrupts normal trends and shifts the curve. 1973 oil crisis. 2008 Recession. 2020 Pandemic.

I see the airline sector is up 11% in the last two weeks, and many of the Pandemic stocks such as Netflix have clipped much of their lofty gains. Perhaps this means people are returning to normal vacation activities and will deselect boat ownership.

It's hard for me to imagine a scenario where used boat values don't decline but I have been so wrong these last few years. Inflation and high interest rates should be whacking the residential real estate market but it's still on fire. 3-months before the pandemic, a friend sold his house in Coconut Grove, a desireble part of Miami. Initially, I thought he was the luckiest guy on the planet to have sold before the bottom dropped out. The house has roughly doubled in the 30 months since he sold.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Tough market to buy into.

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Old 04-27-2022, 09:09 AM   #7
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I've noticed a surge in totally bonkers listings recently - here's a 1990 Jefferson ACMY asking $450k - check out the engine room pic!

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/199...-acmy-8287945/

'89 Tolly 53 asking $375k
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/198...yacht-8290403/
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Old 04-27-2022, 01:38 PM   #8
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Lack of inventory, was the words used by a broker we talked to last week. When we stated we would be going to Trawlerfest in Anacortes. He said don't waste your time, unless your interested in a new boat. The two boats that this broker was going to show at Trawlerfest had already sold. I suspect, others brokers are in the same boat, pardon the pun. Limited supply, fetches high prices.
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Old 04-27-2022, 02:45 PM   #9
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After studying the market for a few months, I bought another motorcycle and decided to wait until we have a "market adjustment" before buying. I am seeing boats that should be hauled off for scrap at $40k and anything I would want starting at twice that... not enough inventory, too much demand.


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Old 04-27-2022, 03:23 PM   #10
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I think it has a lot to do with location, Puget Sound and the San Juan islands are highly regarded cruising grounds.

We decided to buy a budget trawler here on the east coast to learn on and figure out what we want on our next boat when we relocate west.
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Old 04-27-2022, 04:43 PM   #11
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Over the last ten years boat prices, especially used boat prices have fluctuated widely. From a low about ten years ago to a high about two (or so years ago) . But you need to be careful about reaching false conclusions based on asking prices.

Any dramatic event, Covid, Ukraine invasion, maybe even a big deal local event like a midwest storm will cause asking prices to jump (or drop) IMMEDIATELY, like that very day. It may take months for the actual market to fluctuate.

For instance.. Lets say that there are four large marina and boat manufacturing fires one dreaded Sunday night in and around Lake Michigan. The next day boat asking prices will go up. Supply and demand! Will buyers pay the asking price? Doubtful but maybe.

Remember also that determining actual price a boat sold for is a very tricky business. Someone may say they got $60,000 for their boat but what about the condition, what about a trade in, what about having to carry some paper? Was it the middle of the winter or prime boat buying season?

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Old 04-27-2022, 05:01 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
Over the last ten years boat prices, especially used boat prices have fluctuated widely. From a low about ten years ago to a high about two (or so years ago) . But you need to be careful about reaching false conclusions based on asking prices.

Any dramatic event, Covid, Ukraine invasion, maybe even a big deal local event like a midwest storm will cause asking prices to jump (or drop) IMMEDIATELY, like that very day. It may take months for the actual market to fluctuate.

For instance.. Lets say that there are four large marina and boat manufacturing fires one dreaded Sunday night in and around Lake Michigan. The next day boat asking prices will go up. Supply and demand! Will buyers pay the asking price? Doubtful but maybe.

Remember also that determining actual price a boat sold for is a very tricky business. Someone may say they got $60,000 for their boat but what about the condition, what about a trade in, what about having to carry some paper? Was it the middle of the winter or prime boat buying season?

pete
Absolutely need to not overreact to asking prices. There are people looking at opportunistic selling. It's the "I don't really care but if someone is willing to pay me this, I'll sell." I see the same thing in the South Florida housing market as we have a friend who buys houses but hasn't paid asking for any. On the other hand there are markets where every house is selling for more than asking. I've heard Dallas and Houston are that way.

The reality is if you find a boat you want, you make an offer and see what happens. You may be closer to what the seller wants than you think. If not, you move on to the next one.

Now to add, there is a real shortage of used boats for some groups of years. We're about to see more as very few boats were built from 2009-2015 or so. Much fewer than before or since.
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Old 05-05-2022, 08:50 AM   #13
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I think there will always be a market on well designed, well maintained trawlers, regardless of age. The major drawback to the age IMHO, is recent changes in the insurance industry that may leave people scrambling to find affordable, quality insurance in some geographical areas.

I will not argue with your assessment of the insurance situation, but the irony is that I think my 1973 GB36 is a better built hull than some of the newer boats. They weren't very familiar with composite layup and compensated by hand laying an over abundance of material. I just had it glass bead blasted and the guy said he hasn't seen many hulls in the extraordinary condition mine is in. Mine was apparently Epoxy coated from the factory which prevented any water saturation. Age shouldn't be the predominant factor, but a comprehensive survey. Alas that would make sense and completely mess with the actuaries heads'.
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Old 05-05-2022, 09:03 AM   #14
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If I were an insurer, age of a fiberglass hull would be of little concern. It's all the other stuff inside the hull that would cause me to limit age of boat I'd insure. Tanks, electrical systems, DIY "upgrades." You get the idea.

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Old 05-05-2022, 09:12 AM   #15
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If I were an insurer, age of a fiberglass hull would be of little concern. It's all the other stuff inside the hull that would cause me to limit age of boat I'd insure. Tanks, electrical systems, DIY "upgrades." You get the idea.

Peter
Agreed. I am trying my best to undo all of the DIY performed over the years and bring everything I can up to ABYC standards. I am replacing 2 of the bulkheads as they were rotted. I am photographing every thing I do for future reference. No insurance Co would touch the boat in it's original condition. I'm not sure if they will after I'm done either, but I'll give it a shot.
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Old 05-05-2022, 10:00 PM   #16
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Iím wondering what the net of high inflation, higher interest rates and a possible recession will be on higher end boat prices? Inflation should make new boats cost more, supporting used prices. Higher interest rates will make financing more expensive for those that finance. And recession will lower demand.

Which prevails?
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Old 05-06-2022, 06:00 PM   #17
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I know we've had lots of threads on this topic, but I still see zero indicators that boat prices are falling at any level. Or houses. Or RV's. I know prices for large boats at my marina are always a little higher than you'd expect because of the time and trouble and money it takes to move big(ger), non-trailerable boats to this area, but even elsewhere -- well, for example, my father lives in a marina condo in Stuart, FL and took me for a boat ride to see all the boats at the nearby Fleming dealership (Burr yacht sales). Cheapest used boat was $2 million. I know Flemings are very high end and deservedly so, but even in a very active area like FL, he sees continued price spikes on the horizon and Dad's a former yacht broker. No decline in sight -- although I can't tell anymore if it's market forces and current supply and demand, or inflation or both.
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Old 05-25-2022, 12:20 PM   #18
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My sense of it (your mileage may vary) is that there has been a permanent change brought about by Covid. People are reconsidering their work-life balances, driven by the wake-up call that things entirely outside your control can shorten your life expectancy dramatically. A "don't plan for retirement, do it now" sort of thing.

Combine that with another Covid-driven thing wherein people don't want to vacation in large, crowded environments anymore. Resorts are out, AirBnBs are in. I don't see this changing, though resorts will still have customers, because more people are traveling.

All of this is to say that boating is more popular because of Covid, and I think that popularity is here to stay.
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Old 05-25-2022, 12:56 PM   #19
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I just love some of the buzz words used, sarcastically love. Words like "Normal". What is that? Is it the high end or the low end? Who defines it? There is no such thing as normal pricing. It varies.

Similarly I read posts saying they see a market drop soon and others saying they think the higher prices are permanent.

In the most recent posts I see "recession will lower demand", "continued price spikes on the horizon" and "I think that popularity is here to stay."

Reality, none of us know. Law of averages say some of us will be right, but not because we knew, some simply had to be right. I believe strongly prices will rise until they drop, then drop until they rise. I just have no idea when either limit will occur.
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Old 05-25-2022, 05:32 PM   #20
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I just love some of the buzz words...like "Normal". What is that?
Not to be argumentative or pedantic, but I think a reasonable definition of "normal" is "within one standard deviation of average on a normal distribution curve", or (in better English) about 68% of the time.

But yes, people are bothered by change... until they get used to whatever they've changed to, and then they don't want to move off of that. Also, I can't predict the weather tomorrow, let alone boat sales markets.
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