Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-03-2022, 02:33 PM   #1
Member
 
City: Haven
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 12
New purchase nightmare

Hello all, newby here, if Iím not doing something correct here, please advise.

Began the buying process from a manufacturer in Washington State, September 2021.

I am an out of state buyer that Spent a day on a similar vessel with Mfg, sale rep and general manager, negotiated purchase price, add onís, options and delivery date, On or before 10/1/22, to date no boat. I was issued the Co order sheet signed by Mfg.

11/28/22 mfg says boat is done, I requested my surveyor look it over. Mfg reply, no, after you pay u may survey all you want. I had no choice. So, I send a person to factory to look it over on 12/1, you know, just to look it over, see if it was done and verify a few things, HINÖ.

Word from my viewer is, boat is not done, every hand in factory on it. Ok, itís close, no worries, they demand closing on 12/2 or else! So, I send payment in full with tax docís signed.

Now, they want me to sign a purchase agreement, all news to us, that waives all my rights, including paying their atty fees in the event litigation ensues?

Has anyone here experienced this type of conduct before? To date I have not signed and WILL NOT sign. Any verbatim concerning a requirement for me to sign something should have been disclosed 14 months ago, not after theyíve been paid, no?

Can anyone refer me to an attorney in washington that has experience with this type of matter?

Thanks in advance! Rusty
Rusty Rudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 02:47 PM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 17,980
Welcome aboard. Sorry to hear this. It must be extremely difficult to deal with this. Keep us informed.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 02:55 PM   #3
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,886
Greetings,
Sad welcome aboard. Yep. Get an attorney involved ASAP.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 03:14 PM   #4
Guru
 
City: West coast
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Sad welcome aboard. Yep. Get an attorney involved ASAP.
+1

I would have that conversation with my lawyer before signing anything too.
bowball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 03:28 PM   #5
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5,090
You definitely need an attorney as you need to discuss specifics that cannot be disclosed in a public forum.

I will add one avenue of possible compromise: hold final payment in escrow pending buyer verification of completion (e.g. a Survey). But frankly, your safest route may be to go quiet until you have legal representation. If your description is accurate, the builder has your cojones in a vice and wants to bully you. I doubt he will favorably respond to you unless you have artillery behind you.

An additional tip: you might want to reach out to Steve D'antonio, a noted buyers' inspector. My guess is he has some experience with this type of dispute and may know of an attorney who can assist.

I wish you the best of luck. My guess is we will never know the end of the story - builder will include a "No Disparagement" clause in whatever settlement you reach.

Peter
__________________
M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
mvweebles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 03:33 PM   #6
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Walkabout Creek
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 8,581
Try Fred Robinson. If he can't help, he should be able to refer you to someone. He's in Seattle or nearby.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 03:33 PM   #7
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Walkabout Creek
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 8,581
Ranger?
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 04:50 PM   #8
Member
 
City: Haven
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 12
Thanks!
Rusty Rudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 06:38 PM   #9
Guru
 
Pete Meisinger's Avatar
 
City: Oconto, WI
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,564
It sounds to me like they are not very proud of their product.

At the very least you need to escrow a pretty large part of the payment.

pete
Pete Meisinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2022, 06:44 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
City: Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 151
I used Terry McGee to settle a lawsuit I had against Northern Marine. He did a great job and I highly recommend him.
Judy at JWY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2022, 08:13 AM   #11
Member
 
City: Haven
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 12
Thank you all for your input on this situation I am in. I am seeking advice from a PNW local attorney today to see what my options are and will report back when I learn more about my options.

The only thing we want is our boat and the ownership documents.....

(Great site full of information and nice folk)
Rusty Rudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2022, 08:35 AM   #12
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,886
Greetings,
Mr. RR. I would strongly advise you report ONLY when ALL is signed, sealed and delivered. Never mind about options. IF this goes to litigation, anything might be used as evidence...even seemingly innocent comments on a forum like this.

Edit: Personally, I would ask the mods to delete this thread entirely. don't give the "enemy" any ammunition.

FULL report afterwards, of course.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2022, 09:26 AM   #13
Guru
 
City: Winthrop
Vessel Model: Pacific Trawler 40
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. RR. I would strongly advise you report ONLY when ALL is signed, sealed and delivered. Never mind about options. IF this goes to litigation, anything might be used as evidence...even seemingly innocent comments on a forum like this.

Edit: Personally, I would ask the mods to delete this thread entirely. don't give the "enemy" any ammunition.

FULL report afterwards, of course.
__________________
Iggy
Iggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2022, 12:39 PM   #14
TF Site Team
 
Shrew's Avatar
 
City: Westerly, RI
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,748
What are the terms of your original P&S? That is all that really matters. They can have you sign to extend, but you're not compelled to sign a new P&S signing away additional rights at the 11th hour.
__________________
Shrew
/SHro͞o/
noun
1. A small insectivorous mammal resembling a mouse, with a long pointed snout and tiny eyes.
Shrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2022, 06:05 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Action's Avatar
 
City: Phoenix, AZ
Vessel Name: Enigma
Vessel Model: 1997 Wellcraft Excel 26 SE
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 282
FWIW

I know little about marine purchases and the contracts that go with that transaction.

I know a lot about Real Estate purchases and the different contracts.
Typically a used home (resale) purchase uses a universal contract that is created by the Realtor Association of the given state. The contract becomes standard for all purchases of previously owned homes.

For a new home, generally that contract is generated by the new home builder. And nearly every contract is different for every different home builder. In addition, they are typically longer contracts to address additional items that are requested by the design center (options) for the home to be built. Almost every contract that I have ever seen (executed before the home is built) limits the liability of the builder/seller. Generally as a buyer you are signing a document that states you can not sue.

In practice, if the builder/seller does or does not do something specified in the contract they get sued and the court system disregards the waiver of liability because the the builder did not build what was agreed to in the contract.

My recommendation (which is too late at this point) is to always have a purchase contract before any money is transfered. And before any work is done. The dates and time frames of when the work or transaction will be completed may be inaccurate. (Supply chains issues and ???) However the general idea on a complex arrangement is the thing will be built to specifications. Which also includes how it is assembled, meaning some level of quality.

Good luck.

Action
__________________
>>>>>>>>>>>Action
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2022, 07:34 PM   #16
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,650
Hopefully by now, the OP is getting appropriate advice.

Barring US law that prevents it, there is already an agreement between the OP and the Seller.

The purpose of seeking/requiring an Agreement at this late stage, when the Agreement spelt out by conduct and Order forms etc has been performed except for delivery,is likely to protect the Seller from liability. As one of the terms suggests.Maybe there is a third party involved on the Seller`s side in the seeking this "Agreement" at such a late stage.

It sounds like the ultimate "cart before horse" situation, a retrospective "Agreement".
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2023, 10:05 PM   #17
Member
 
City: Haven
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
What are the terms of your original P&S? That is all that really matters. They can have you sign to extend, but you're not compelled to sign a new P&S signing away additional rights at the 11th hour.
Indeed, I consulted with an experienced litigator near Seattle. He explained what you have said similarly. The purchase contract signed by the manufacturer was nearly an order form and contract establishing price, amenities and contracted delivery date, signed by the general manager and sales person. To wait 15 months and attempt to force someone to sign something that is not true (boat is everything buyer dreamed by of by personal inspection while the buyer has not seen the build), delivery 3 mo late or that the buyer will fund the attorney representing the builder is nonsense, according to this attorney. We were advised to sign stating “duress” was the only reason any signatures were provided. Apparently in that state when you indicate the other party pays atty’s fees is a scare tactic that sails both directions. They too are responsible for mine AND that clause is looked down upon by those in the legal field for all the obvious reasons. The bottom line is, all we want is our paid for boat without all the BS, mis leading information, deceptive practices and accurate delivery date and product quality paid for…. Most of which has been a struggle at best. We now seek a surveyor from the area that is top notch and reputable for doing a thorough job. I’m going to search this site and attempt to find someone as its probably been discussed. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INPUT ON THIS UN PLEASANT EXPERIENCE! Typing from a phone, responses are challenging!
Rusty Rudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2023, 10:45 PM   #18
Guru
 
Portage_Bay's Avatar
 
City: Coupeville Wa.
Vessel Name: Pelorus
Vessel Model: Californian 42 LRC
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,922
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rudder View Post
Apparently in that state when you indicate the other party pays attyís fees is a scare tactic that sails both directions. They too are responsible for mine AND that clause is looked down upon by those in the legal field for all the obvious reasons.
I can from personal experience say that is true. You cannot be compelled to pay the other's legal costs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rudder View Post
We now seek a surveyor from the area that is top notch and reputable for doing a thorough job.
Long ago I had a disagreement over maritime matters that ended up in court. My advice is to search out a surveyor with court experience. Unfortunately I don't know how to do that these days other than hours on the phone and email.
__________________
Some things are worth doing simply because they are worth doing.
Portage_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2023, 12:11 AM   #19
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,650
Glad you got advice and came to terms over the last minute imposition. But,what a way to end a transaction? Lawyers retained, bizarre "agreement" provisions, loss of faith and confidence, and a sour aftertaste.

What will warranty work dealings be like? Or is there now no warranty?
Another member had an awful experience with the mfrs of a new boat. Is this the norm now? I guess someone has to, but good reasons not to buy new.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2023, 01:08 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
Mambo42's Avatar
 
City: Curacao
Vessel Name: Endless Summer
Vessel Model: 1979 Defever 49
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 262
I am not a US citizen, you all may have different laws, but when I buy something new I definitely want to inspect it before I make the final payment. My back ground is in aviation and also there it is normal that final payment is only made after the buyer is fully satisfied with the product, in other words that it is according to what the contract stipulates.
It sounds very strange to me that you are not allowed to have a survey done prior to making a final payment. In my opinion that sounds a lot like: 'we know we made mistakes, but we don't want to admit them and we definitely don't want to pay for them'.

In any case it was good of you not to mention their name here. There is more than 1 boat builder in Washington State, so they can never make a claim for defamation. Your name is also not here, so nobody can make a link between you and that company. Just make sure you keep it that way.

And indeed, get a good lawyer and demand that survey or inspection. In many countries the builder has the obligation to deliver a good product, I cannot imagine that obligation does not exist in the US.
__________________
If you want sea view...........buy a boat !
Mambo42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012