Miami-Dade issuing property tax notice on yachts
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O C Diver
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I'm wondering if it's self-propelled or a barge. My guess is that it would be treated differently if were intended as a stationary structure. The state may look at vessels that have become permanent fixtures (such as restaurants) differently. It would seem to me, that the determining factor might be things like:
Lack of propulsion and steering
Sanitation system that only discharged into public sewerage
Potable water storage.
Ted
Yeah, that doesn't look like a "yacht" to me. That looks like a houseboat, with no ability whatsoever to navigate anywhere. That's not just a dock queen that DOESN'T go out, that is a permanent structure that CANNOT go out. I'm not too surprised that they would want the owner to pay property taxes. I don't really see this as the thin edge of the wedge.
I can see the neighbors being upset too. Having their views blocked by that volume maximizing cube. No zoning. No neighborhood review.
If just pay and be quiet since the remedy I’d want is for that “yacht” to be removed.
When too much money is involved people can get too creative and violate the spirit of the laws. which isn’t very neighborly either.
Paul Allen was denied a heliport at his house on Mercer Island so he brought in a barge as his landing zone.
A friend’s relative decades ago wanted to land his helicopter on his ocean front property in the Hamptons but couldn’t unless he had his adjacent neighbors permission. So he bought all three neighbors houses, got the permission, installed his heliport and then sold two of them. The city quickly amended the law to state it needed city permission.
If just pay and be quiet since the remedy I’d want is for that “yacht” to be removed.
When too much money is involved people can get too creative and violate the spirit of the laws. which isn’t very neighborly either.
Paul Allen was denied a heliport at his house on Mercer Island so he brought in a barge as his landing zone.
A friend’s relative decades ago wanted to land his helicopter on his ocean front property in the Hamptons but couldn’t unless he had his adjacent neighbors permission. So he bought all three neighbors houses, got the permission, installed his heliport and then sold two of them. The city quickly amended the law to state it needed city permission.
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RT Firefly
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Greetings,
Mr. OC. The article states it can cruise at 5 knots. I am assuming it can steer/navigate (not terribly well I expect but...). Wouldn't surprise me if it had a composting toilet and on board water storage either. Going to be an interesting case.
Mr. OC. The article states it can cruise at 5 knots. I am assuming it can steer/navigate (not terribly well I expect but...). Wouldn't surprise me if it had a composting toilet and on board water storage either. Going to be an interesting case.
HopCar
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It is self propelled. The Miami Herald published a photo of it underway. Very strange.
The issue here is it’s intent is clearly for a permanent waterfront property. Rules can rarely be written so others can’t avoid - selfishly - their intent. It’s a bigger issue when navigable waterways with federal jurisdiction are involved.
Everyone knows what the intent here is and consequently there should be ways for the city to enforce its zoning and tax base.
Raise all boat taxes with rebates given for those that achieve minimum travel? Seaworthy ratings? Maximum moorage volume and height regulations per linear foot of mooring?
Everyone knows what the intent here is and consequently there should be ways for the city to enforce its zoning and tax base.
Raise all boat taxes with rebates given for those that achieve minimum travel? Seaworthy ratings? Maximum moorage volume and height regulations per linear foot of mooring?
I see no numbers. Makes me think it's unlikely that it's registered as a boat. If he failed to do so, that would definitely hurt his case.
jgtrucking
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Neihborhood review? If property next door ever comes up for sale i suggest not buying it, because i do with what i own, as i please... because i own it.
Im currious where this insane idea in a free society, someone needs permission from his neibor to do something on his property. Maybe a an education is in order?
We've had local zoning laws as well as neighborhood rules for decades. Nothing new about any of this.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. b. Agreed. There SHOULD be ways in this particular case but....as you note it's difficult to legislate intent. People have been avoiding taxes for millennia. How many have their boats registered in non-tax states? Nothing illegal in that.
Seems this guy is adhering to the letter of the law.
Mr. b. Agreed. There SHOULD be ways in this particular case but....as you note it's difficult to legislate intent. People have been avoiding taxes for millennia. How many have their boats registered in non-tax states? Nothing illegal in that.
Seems this guy is adhering to the letter of the law.
Sure. Cities and states can pass zoning laws, for example to keep neighborhoods residential versus commercial, place height restrictions, create maximum square footage against lot size etc etc. it’s why an oil company can’t tear your neighbors house down and build an oil refinery there. Building codes to ensure safety. Etc etc.
As part of the process, they often seek neighborhood involvement, as what you do affects your Neighbot and their property values.
This property regulation has gone on for hundreds of years. Indeed, it’s why you can even claim to own that property.
No one can do whatever they want in their property, I assure you.
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We know many people who rarely ever take their boat out. Some only ever travel from the lift to the slip and back. Some only take one trip a year. You're going penalize all the dock queens in an effort to address one house boat.
Boats staying over 90 days in FL must be registered there, regardless of other registrations. Does he have it registered as a boat? If not, then it must be a floating structure. Many marina offices are similar and they are subject to property tax.
This isn't a special situation on one dock queen. This is a case of a floating structure vs. a boat. I don't know other specific rules that may be involved such as the means of attachment to land.
There are floating cottages sold in some areas and set up permanently to docks. I would imagine they would also be in question.
This doesn't look like a boat or quack like one so might be burdensome to prove it is one. A state boat registration would certainly help in doing so.
Could definitely be an interesting case. We'll find out ultimately if the owner did all his due diligence in advance. If so, the county will likely lose. If not, they may win.
psneeld
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I think this is a case of "loophole" and how many times have I heard people brag about the "loophole" they used for something.
I think that "yacht" looks better than many of the yachts, boats, etc floating in front of other homes...and lots of peoples docks and boatsheds...... but we can't legislate "taste"......
As to registration...maybe it is documented as a self-propelled barge.
I think that "yacht" looks better than many of the yachts, boats, etc floating in front of other homes...and lots of peoples docks and boatsheds...... but we can't legislate "taste"......
As to registration...maybe it is documented as a self-propelled barge.
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Slowmo
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I have to pay a 'personal property tax' on my 21' Wellcraft (Tahoe boat) in California. It depends on the county, we register ours at our home address and pay the tax there. Tax would be different if we registered it in another county but too much hassle for a few bucks. I imagine the tax would be bigger for a 'real' boat. So taxing boats as property isn't unique. Now I don't think I pay that in WA for the Tollycraft but maybe its buried in the WA registration fee.
In Florida there is no property tax on boats.
Florida Statute section 327.02
(14) “Floating structure” means a floating entity, with or without accommodations built thereon, which is not primarily used as a means of transportation on water but which serves purposes or provides services typically associated with a structure or other improvement to real property.
If he is using spuds he probably runs afoul under 327.4109(4)
"The owner or operator of a vessel or floating structure may not anchor, moor, tie, or otherwise affix or allow the vessel or floating structure to remain anchored, moored, tied, or otherwise affixed to an unpermitted, unauthorized, or otherwise unlawful object that is on or affixed to the bottom of the waters of this state. This subsection does not apply to a private mooring owned by the owner of privately owned submerged lands."
(14) “Floating structure” means a floating entity, with or without accommodations built thereon, which is not primarily used as a means of transportation on water but which serves purposes or provides services typically associated with a structure or other improvement to real property.
If he is using spuds he probably runs afoul under 327.4109(4)
"The owner or operator of a vessel or floating structure may not anchor, moor, tie, or otherwise affix or allow the vessel or floating structure to remain anchored, moored, tied, or otherwise affixed to an unpermitted, unauthorized, or otherwise unlawful object that is on or affixed to the bottom of the waters of this state. This subsection does not apply to a private mooring owned by the owner of privately owned submerged lands."
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HopCar
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And in addition to the property structure argument, Miami Dade can clearly argue that by the owner's own testimony and actions it is not a boat as if he'd considered it a boat, he would have registered it as such. It's an example where you fail to get all the advice needed and fail to follow through and check all the boxes. I remember moving from NC to FL and becoming residents, we had a lengthy check list of actions but when NC questioned whether we owed them more income tax, the facts were overwhelming and submitted our list and they immediately agreed. There were certainly steps they could have taken and things they could have avoided to strengthen their claim it was a boat. I don't know how they did on the others, but see this as a big miss.
HopCar
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The newspaper article I read said it “was registered with the Coast Guard”.
As OC Diver said, in Florida, even if it is documented, you still have to pay an annual fee, and you are required to display the registration sticker. You don't put registration numbers on it, but the law does say you must display the sticker
Now, the part of the law that says you have to display the sticker seems not to be too often enforced. Could be that he drew enough attention to himself, by stretching the law as far as he could, that they decided they could get him on the sticker issue this time.
Now, the part of the law that says you have to display the sticker seems not to be too often enforced. Could be that he drew enough attention to himself, by stretching the law as far as he could, that they decided they could get him on the sticker issue this time.
psneeld
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Not registering it by itself does not mean it's not a boat.
Documenting it and buying it from a company that calls them yachts certainly helps.
Just not "registering" it with the state doesn't disqualify it and is a separate infraction of the law.
By the USCG's definition of a vessel it fits whether documented/registered or not.
the definition of the word vessel found in 1 USC 3, which is:
"The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft or other artificial contrivance used, or capable of being used, as a means of transportation on water."
This is what it looks like when the concept gets out of hand....
Documenting it and buying it from a company that calls them yachts certainly helps.
Just not "registering" it with the state doesn't disqualify it and is a separate infraction of the law.
By the USCG's definition of a vessel it fits whether documented/registered or not.
the definition of the word vessel found in 1 USC 3, which is:
"The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft or other artificial contrivance used, or capable of being used, as a means of transportation on water."
This is what it looks like when the concept gets out of hand....
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Article says it is Coast Guard registered (documented) meaning no numbers
But should have sticker. However, CG registration swings things back in their favor, in my opinion.
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