Liability Waiver for Crew

[lwaugaman]

Greetings All, I am planning a 4 month trip from San Diego to Seattle (Vancouver if BC opens) and then back to San Diego aboard my 50' M/V.

I am single and will am considering bringing crew members along for 7-10 days at a time. I'm on "findacrew.net". It seems to be a very good resource for my objectives and I have been contacted by several experienced crew members - all female. My objective is crew and not necessarily romance, but I wouldn't expressly rule anything out.

I need a basic liability waiver that would cover accidents as well as interpersonal conflicts that may arise. My cruise will be mostly short, 50-100nm harbor hops making it easy to swap out crew members along the way, so it will be easy for crew to disembark in the event that captain or crew have a change of heart.

Of course I will do as thorough due diligence as possible including phone chats and video calls to review expectations and get to know the individuals as well as possible before inviting/accepting them aboard.

Any advice is appreciated.

Captain Lou

 

[DavidM]

Wow, female crew lining up to cruise with you and sign a liability waiver!!! That is crazy on many levels. But ignoring the craziness:

Check with a lawyer if you are serious about the liability waiver. You may find that it is invalid in many states if not the US as a whole. Then ask if your general liability insurance- home owners plus umbrella covers you. You may find it doesn't.

Marine liability is weird, particularly with you as the captain, so don't assume anything.

David

 

[gsholz]

Definitely put it on Youtube as a weekly series.

 

[OldDan1943]

Paid crew???
Check with your insurance company.

You: do not make 'the first move'.
Check references and if necessary for a police record.

 

[mvweebles]

Curious - what type of liability are you concerned with?

As DavidM says, maritime law has a different point of view of a captain/crew than, say, employer/employee. In a court, you might have more luck with a cap on liability vs a total waiver. Your best defense will be clearly setting out mutual expectations - watch standing, washing boat, meal prep, laundry, who pays for shoreside meals, schedule changes due to mechanical/weather issues, etc.

Good luck - sounds like a nice trip.

Peter

 

[oscar]

Definitely put it on Youtube as a weekly series.

Slap on a Patreon account and you're home free.

 

[bligh]

Greetings All, I am planning a 4 month trip from San Diego to Seattle (Vancouver if BC opens) and then back to San Diego aboard my 50' M/V.

I am single and will am considering bringing crew members along for 7-10 days at a time. I'm on "findacrew.net". It seems to be a very good resource for my objectives and I have been contacted by several experienced crew members - all female. My objective is crew and not necessarily romance, but I wouldn't expressly rule anything out.

I need a basic liability waiver that would cover accidents as well as interpersonal conflicts that may arise. My cruise will be mostly short, 50-100nm harbor hops making it easy to swap out crew members along the way, so it will be easy for crew to disembark in the event that captain or crew have a change of heart.

Of course I will do as thorough due diligence as possible including phone chats and video calls to review expectations and get to know the individuals as well as possible before inviting/accepting them aboard.

Any advice is appreciated.

Captain Lou

Are you a USCG licensed Captain?


You can use any liability waiver you want. But, likely, maritime law makes them all invalid if they are being compensated in any way (food lodging, money, favors, etc.)



I'd make sure you have a good 'yacht' policy that covers crew and you get a rider for them. I paid $150 to have 4 crew (both paid and unpaid crew) insured for a year (that's 4 crew aboard at one time -not 1 crew 4 times a year). Any competent marine insurance broker/agent should be able to take care of this pretty easily.

 

[psneeld]

Are you a USCG licensed Captain?


You can use any liability waiver you want. But, likely, maritime law makes them all invalid if they are being compensated in any way (food lodging, money, favors, etc.)



I'd make sure you have a good 'yacht' policy that covers crew and you get a rider for them. I paid $150 to have 4 crew (both paid and unpaid crew) insured for a year (that's 4 crew aboard at one time -not 1 crew 4 times a year). Any competent marine insurance broker/agent should be able to take care of this pretty easily.

Haven't ever gotten too deep with this one, I know the payimg passenger rules pretty well with reference to captain licensing...but this is paying crew. The owner here may be under less regulation than the people being paid as crew.

That being said, only if no paying passengers....even if under barter.

 

[ancora]

We had an admiralty law attorney give a talk at our yacht club where he mentioned "hidden liens." Anyone who has been on your boat can file a lien for any reason and you will not find out about it until you attempt to sell it. Yes, it's blackmail to get the "lien" cleared.

 

[BandB]

Two parts to this.

One, get attorney to draw up the agreement between the two or more of you.

Two, get insurance to protect you.

Now, in the agreement be 100% honest including that sexual activity may take place but is not a requirement for employment and will not impact it and either party is always free to say "no."

I'm not going to dodge what you're clearly trying to protect yourself against. Be upfront with any crew you engage, which I'm sure will be as independent contractors. Also understand yourself that if at some point the romantic angle changes you cannot legally have them leave for that reason, no matter how uncomfortable it becomes.

Now, also, understand none of this relieves you of any parent obligations you might incur as a result.

One more thing and that is you should pay for their transportation to your boat but more importantly home from anywhere you might be when a falling out occurs.

Oh, and don't give us the BS that "My objective is crew and not necessarily romance". Your objective is clearly hoping for romance or, at least, friends with benefits. If you find someone with similar objectives then great for you. I find nothing wrong with bringing Tinder to your boating world as long as both parties are completely honest from the outset.

Why insurance? Because there is no contract in the world that can protect you from all liability that might arise in this situation. You will always be liable for your actions.

 

[HTurner]

If romance is the object, find it at a bar or super market produce department. If one is going to do 50 or so miles a day... go it alone, forget the crew, more trouble than it is worth.

 

[OldDan1943]

Hey here's an idea. Talk with an attorney who is familiar with maritime law then, talk with your insurance agent. You may need additional or separate liability insurance AND a health insurance policy for them.
NO ONE with a DUI!!!!!

 

[IronZebra]

Hey here's an idea. Talk with an attorney who is familiar with maritime law then, talk with your insurance agent. You may need additional or separate liability insurance AND a health insurance policy for them.
NO ONE with a DUI!!!!!

No DUI if going into Canada. My understanding is they are pretty strict on that asking about that when entering Canada.

 

[MurrayM]

After an exhaustive 15 second Internet search, you might want to consider a 'mutual release'...you from them and them from you.

 

[Barabus]

I would bring buddies. Crew seems like a lot of drama. Watch Below Deck. No thanks.

 

[OldDan1943]

No drug related arrests and specify NO drugs onboard unless you hate your boat and have a overwhelming desire to meet new and interesting people, in prison.

 

[BruceK]

As I read the OP, no payment involved,just volunteer crew.
However, the whole concept is fraught with issues. Someone will always find their way around a "waiver',and the chances of all those ever changing crew being lovely people as assessed pre voyage, is about zilch.

 

[BandB]

As I read the OP, no payment involved,just volunteer crew.
However, the whole concept is fraught with issues. Someone will always find their way around a "waiver',and the chances of all those ever changing crew being lovely people as assessed pre voyage, is about zilch.

Well, the cite he's using is mostly free or dirt cheap, no professional crew there.

Actually, the lack of pay makes protecting his anticipated behavior even more difficult.

 

[Pau Hana]

Greetings All, I am planning a 4 month trip from San Diego to Seattle (Vancouver if BC opens) and then back to San Diego aboard my 50' M/V.

I am single and will am considering bringing crew members along for 7-10 days at a time. I'm on "findacrew.net". It seems to be a very good resource for my objectives and I have been contacted by several experienced crew members - all female. My objective is crew and not necessarily romance, but I wouldn't expressly rule anything out.

I need a basic liability waiver that would cover accidents as well as interpersonal conflicts that may arise. My cruise will be mostly short, 50-100nm harbor hops making it easy to swap out crew members along the way, so it will be easy for crew to disembark in the event that captain or crew have a change of heart.

Of course I will do as thorough due diligence as possible including phone chats and video calls to review expectations and get to know the individuals as well as possible before inviting/accepting them aboard.

Any advice is appreciated.

Captain Lou

Interesting premise.

Any professional paid crew would need to be endorsed onto the vessel policy for liability coverage to be in effect. Find a crew is generally not professional crew, but adventurers wanting to hitch a cheap ride from Point A to Point B.

The best advice I've seen given- consult a maritime attorney before proceeding.

My advice- negate the romantic aspect, and get grew that are mariners and not just along for the ride.

 

[BandB]

Interesting premise.

Any professional paid crew would need to be endorsed onto the vessel policy for liability coverage to be in effect. Find a crew is generally not professional crew, but adventurers wanting to hitch a cheap ride from Point A to Point B.

The best advice I've seen given- consult a maritime attorney before proceeding.

My advice- negate the romantic aspect, and get grew that are mariners and not just along for the ride.

Wifey B: You expect him to pay for crew? :lol: Then he'd have to find someone to pay for sex as well? Why you be messin' with the dude's plans.

 

[Comodave]

Any time you bring potential sex into the equation you are asking, rather begging, for problems. Waaaay to risky, IMO.

 

[OldDan1943]

Some folks will volunteer to be non-paid crew so they can get more sea time (towards their license) but, if he is not an official Captain, the sea hours mean nothing in the crew member's log.

If he wants a sea nymph then go rent one for a day or week. My point being, no unfulfilled expectations and no surprises. Dont even call her "crew".

 

[Pau Hana]

Some folks will volunteer to be non-paid crew so they can get more sea time (towards their license) but, if he is not an official Captain, the sea hours mean nothing in the crew member's log.

Not so, sir- sea time does not have to be under a professional captain to count towards the USCG license. 1 day of sea time is described as 4 hours underway on a vessel, be it yours or some else’s.

 

[Hippocampus]

Have been using crew for passage for decades. Use Herb’s OPO, Salty Dawg and crew finder but mostly get folks via word of mouth. Bad crew can literally make you dead or sink/ruin your boat. Do fairly involved vetting. Due to Jones act avoid paid crew as that presents additional expense but also obligations. Take no live lumber as then they could say they’re passengers and then I potentially have increased liability. Often take crew who have active tickets but ask they acknowledge this is a unpaid pleasure voyage as to escape Jones act obligations. Have done more attesting of days at sea than I can remember. No longer hold any active ticket as it’s a hassle and insurance looks at experience not license when judging premium so no longer has much effect on cost like it used to do. That has no effect on my attesting as a master.
I’m clear. I pay for all boat expenses-fuel, clearances, food, etc. Crew is responsible for all land expenses - their bar/restaurant bills, their travel to and from the boat, their incidental expenses and purchases or medical expenses etc. boat is dry underway and zero tolerance. If they are unsafe I’ll take them off the watch schedule and/or divert to the next port and drop them off. I make my obligations to them and their obligations to me clear and it’s written down. Once I have firm crew commitments I send the resumes to my insurance vendor. They either approve the list or I need to recruit new ones (so far no rejections by insurance). I usually start months in advance of passage. Fortunately over time you develop your own crew list. Still, sh-t happens so I try to have a few alternates. For these I’ve occasionally paid for flights but other rules hold.
Should mention I believe taking on crew can be viewed as a contract. There’s lots of issues beyond liability.
That they were truthful in all their statements (current health, abilities, experience, availability etc.).
I send a an email stating clearly their obligations and mine as well as the details of the voyage and attesting that they have been entirely truthful. I request they acknowledge they accepted their obligations and the details of the voyage. I haven’t run into liability problems (knock on wood) yet but have found those emails helpful on occasion. I’ve thrown people off the boat on rare occasions. Closet drunks who were functional alcoholics, once a person who didn’t disclose a prior history of a serious medical condition which could reappear during the period of passage. Things like that. I worry more about those things then liability although a phrase “passage making is a dangerous activity. You incur all risks related to same and your time on the boat” for what it’s worth. Also I’ve served as crew for friends. Want the same behavior from them or I’ll not get on the boat. Here I usually offer to share boat and land expenses as these are my friends.

 

[OldDan1943]

Not so, sir- sea time does not have to be under a professional captain to count towards the USCG license. 1 day of sea time is described as 4 hours underway on a vessel, be it yours or some else’s.

Signed by the ship's master.
1 day in foreign waters accounts for 2 days, towards your captain's license.

 

[OldDan1943]

Not so, sir- sea time does not have to be under a professional captain to count towards the USCG license. 1 day of sea time is described as 4 hours underway on a vessel, be it yours or some else’s.

Hmmm, then I can generate and sign my own logged hours and apply it towards my USCG captain's license? If so, I have learned something new.

 

[psneeld]

For lower level licenses....... yes, you can sign your own sea service forms with proof of boat ownership.

I don't remember foreign waters counting differently.

 

[OldDan1943]

For lower level licenses....... yes, you can sign your own sea service forms with proof of boat ownership.

I don't remember foreign waters counting differently.

But of course you must also pass the written test.
I do not recall if there a proficiency test on boat handling and knot trying and navigation.

 

[psneeld]

There isn't, but those are questioned in one of the tests.

Towing licenses (not assistance towing) require a towing proficiency card filled out by a certified evaluator.

 

[OldDan1943]

Back to the original subject.
I think it would be easier to date a lady, take her out on a couple of boat rides.... then longer rides and start instructing her. If she still likes it, hire a woman captain for two or 3 days plus a night's training. While the lady captain is training her, you go sit in the saloon, out of the way and shut up. LOL