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Old 05-22-2021, 10:54 AM   #41
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Agreed and given that need insurance companies request it. But there’s an advantage to 2’itis. You learn learn all aspects as you advance in size. Will say personally have learned more from fellow cruisers and crew and have been mostly disappointed by those holding US captain tickets in the lower tonnage range even to the point of taking them off the watch rotation on a couple of occasions. Yes, there’s fine experienced seamen who are a major resource in that group. But among those doing it as second career occasionally not so much.
One occasion was after being woken up. Listen here’s the circle course. What I’m interested in VMG and comfort. We’re cruising not racing. 14 days or 15 who cares. After being woken a second time bashing through line squalls the first repeat with additional detailed instructions on how to deviate and return to course with further reassurance if we were 50 miles off the line so what. Make it up later. After the third time asked why he wouldn’t change course to avoid bumpies or at least improve comfort. Told he would go point A to B period. Boat could take it. Suck it up. Second was weather router told us to slow down and deviate to a holding lding ground just north of the Bahamas. Router said on our current course and VGM we would hit a 3 day system of 60kt. Other three watches followed these instructions. He didn’t. Once we hit our holding ground he again started to head for Newport. I had no interest with my wife aboard seeing 60k. Turned the boat around and took him off watch.

Oh so true Art. Brains work differently. Wife can back up a trailer with ease. Every time I do it I first need to put my hand on the bottom of the steering wheel. Stop and think. Hand goes left, back wheels goes right, trailer goes left. Then go slow and still screw up. Whereas she just gets it done. Can back up a boat or straight frame truck or large trailer just fine. But small trailers not so much.
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Old 05-22-2021, 11:14 AM   #42
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insurance - at what point is a boat too big?

Plenty of intuitive and gifted airplane drivers in the graveyard early. Turns out their other pilot skills were lacking.

Iím a great boat handler. Can jump on something of any reasonable size - maybe less than 80 feet or so, for me, and after a few minutes or maybe couple hours I can make it dance, my brain and hands just work that way, and I have hundreds and hundreds of slow speed maneuvering hours under my belt. It was the same with driving and flying for me. And Iím a handy and meticulous maintenance guy for someone who hasnít had much formal Ďmechanicíingí training beyond junior high shop class. A catastrophic maintenance issue would be more likely to be despite me than because of me.

But my taking a MV Fintry or even a 40í Nordhavn to Bermuda and back would probably take a few dozens of hours of mentoring first, followed by a lot of self learning, and judgement checks. I have been known to be overly aggressive in my weather and go/no-go decisions in past endeavors of various kinds , I have more self awareness of my weakness in the judgement arena now. And if an engine went TU in a busy shipping channel or in a storm, could I diagnose and fix it in my first month of ownership? And what could I do about the situation in a 100 ton vessel vs a thirty foot cruiser or a 40 foot aluminum fast mover with which Iím more familiar?

All that said, weather related claims for vessels not even underway must dwarf all other claims by some order of magnitude, across many domestic regions. Even inland marinas are struck by tornados.
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Old 05-22-2021, 11:23 AM   #43
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Righty Tightey - Lefty Loosey! Unless reverse threaded. A "thread" factor that is universal through the world!
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Old 05-22-2021, 12:14 PM   #44
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One point missed by some, the point of using a training captain isn't to just observe the captain, but to operate the boat under the Captain's tutelage and observation. Our captains who trained us made us do all the work.

As to Hippocampus' comment regarding captains in the lower tonnages, they get there many different ways. Many have operated very small boats and others have operated no boats, simply been deck crew on many. Low tonnage indicates experience limited to small boats. Some with low tonnage have years of experience but just decided to go for licenses, but others are beginners.
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Old 05-22-2021, 12:37 PM   #45
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Operating a boat is similar to riding bicycle... in that, as long as your hippocampus works well - you never forget.

At one point in my life I took 10 + + years off from boating [lived in the mountains then, but, had previously been brought up around and on boats from birth forward].

So, when I became close to ocean once again I was impelled to reestablish my addiction to boats; yup, I'm repeat user - LOL!

Things came flooding [pun intended] back in... just like yesterday for boat inspection, handling, maintenance, safety and other marine-life requirements/factors.

Bottom line, for most on TF - Boating Is In Your Blood!! Yea!!!!!
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Old 05-22-2021, 02:53 PM   #46
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This is sort of funny... When I used to captain for a Mainship dealer the service they offered any new buyer was my services to take them out and go over the handling of the boat. (The yard supervisor handled the "shakedown", as well as go over the various systems). If the customer wanted more lessons, they could contract my services, which was normally taken care of by the dealer. The normal client was usually older (50+) and their last boat experience was usually around a 25 foot sport boat 20-25 years prior. The normal Mainship they were purchasing was either the 40 or 43 Trawler.

The funny thing here, now seeing the post regarding the 10+ foot rule from insurance is that I has no idea that I assisting these clients with their insurance! Live and learn.
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Old 09-06-2021, 06:58 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by garychurch View Post
I went from a 27’ SeaRay I/O to a 64’ Grand Banks MY. The insurance company required me to have a qualified approved (by them) for a minimum of 100 hours and submit a letter from the Captain I was now qualified to handle the boat as an owner/operator.

Insurance runs from 1% to 2% of the boat’s value per year. Depending on coverage and assessed risk. For the Grand Banks that ran from $8,000 (US) to $11,000 (Caribbean) to $19,000 (US but within the hurricane belt).
Same. Except I was going from a pontoon boat to a 60! Same roughly up to 100 hours on an approved captain with endorsement.

Being in the PNW my premium for a comprehensive policy was only 0.7% of agreed to hull value with 2% deductible. No hurricanes out west must be the difference.
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Old 09-07-2021, 12:09 PM   #48
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Just got off the phone with my agent. Totally flipping my boating program. Other than small outboards and dinghies never owned a motor vessel. Have only cruised sail.
Told given my experience I would get the lowest rates available. No need for a captain. No vetting crew unless I wasn’t on the boat or extraordinary circumstances.
Turns out their thinking is virtually all the systems on a modern cruising sailboat are the same with the additional issue of the sails and rig. Yes, vendors and sizing maybe different but gensets, watermakers, engines, navigation, electrical are the same. Motor has the additional issue of stabilization. In terms of claims history the human mistakes are the same. Poor maintenance or installations, poor navigation or watch keeping etc. Sail and power are brothers . The antagonism you sometimes see is totally ridiculous to me. Apparently insurance sees skill set so much alike they are willing to apply sail experience to power.
Still, you don’t know what you don’t know. So I already have training for me and the bride arranged. Fortunately at no expense. You can kill yourself or another by ignorance. Unless you’ve achieved some level of competence think it’s unwise and immoral to operate any vessel.
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Old 09-07-2021, 12:56 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Hippocampus View Post
Just got off the phone with my agent. Totally flipping my boating program. Other than small outboards and dinghies never owned a motor vessel. Have only cruised sail.
Told given my experience I would get the lowest rates available. No need for a captain. No vetting crew unless I wasnít on the boat or extraordinary circumstances.
Turns out their thinking is virtually all the systems on a modern cruising sailboat are the same with the additional issue of the sails and rig. Yes, vendors and sizing maybe different but gensets, watermakers, engines, navigation, electrical are the same. Motor has the additional issue of stabilization. In terms of claims history the human mistakes are the same. Poor maintenance or installations, poor navigation or watch keeping etc. Sail and power are brothers . The antagonism you sometimes see is totally ridiculous to me. Apparently insurance sees skill set so much alike they are willing to apply sail experience to power.
Still, you donít know what you donít know. So I already have training for me and the bride arranged. Fortunately at no expense. You can kill yourself or another by ignorance. Unless youíve achieved some level of competence think itís unwise and immoral to operate any vessel.
Well you do have trawler speed experience.
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Old 09-07-2021, 02:42 PM   #50
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If it passes survey next boat tops out at ~20kts. Been on large tris that go that fast but never owned one. Be a new experience.
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:37 PM   #51
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I'm not surprised at them taking sail experience. I figure the required level of skill and knowledge to use a sailboat without getting hurt is higher than on most powerboats.
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:54 PM   #52
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I'm not surprised at them taking sail experience. I figure the required level of skill and knowledge to use a sailboat without getting hurt is higher than on most powerboats.
There was a thread here that spoke of how many of us were former sailboaters. I agree there is a correlation, add to that offshore experience, there is no doubt insurers will look like you are less a risk than a landlubber buying a boat.
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