Insurance and Navigation Restrictions

Alaskan Sea-Duction · 03-31-2023, 04:43 PM

GIECO dropped us this year and this required us to seek a new insurance company. All the quotes I received from our broker, Peter, has navigation restrictions, no boating above the 51 longitude line from October to May 15th.

I have never came across this in all my years of cruising the PNW. Why? Is this a new thing in the PNW. Don't know. I even had one company that would require ASD to be on the hard from October 1st until May 1st. Really? Needles to say, they did not get my money.

My required navigation is pretty easy to understand. Coast of Oregon, Washington, to include the Columbia River, B.C. Canada and All of SE Alaska to Cape Spencer to Skagway.

Next year I will be more vigilant when dealing with these companies and their requirements.

Any similar TF folks who run the PNW run into this issue?

twistedtree · 03-31-2023, 05:30 PM

Navigation limits are pretty common, but they also vary quite a bit. What you describe is more restrictive than most I have seen.

Comodave · 03-31-2023, 05:41 PM

Maybe they are worried that you will pull a Titanic???

O C Diver · 03-31-2023, 05:45 PM

Did you call the insurance companies to speak to someone about it?

I've had several changes to my Navigation limits over the years and it's never been a problem or an increase in premium. Looked at doing the Downeast Loop (out the St Lawrence, around Nova Scotia, and back down the East coast to NYC) and asked my agent. No problem and no increase in premium.

The other part that surprises me, is that with your previous experience with going to Alaska each year, I would have thought most companies wouldn't of had a problem with it. Would have thought something new would have been an issue.

Ted

psneeld · 03-31-2023, 05:53 PM

I too have had Nav limits and when I wanted to exceed them, usually it was another percent or two added to the deductible, nothing added to the premium.

Was far less a big deal than i thought.

Can't say for another insurance company though.....

rslifkin · 03-31-2023, 07:01 PM

As others have said, depending on the insurance company it's often not a big deal to get the limits extended, especially with a long history of boating experience.

garbler · 03-31-2023, 09:19 PM

You are paying your agent to handle this kind of thing. Make the agent earn their % and go to work for you with the company. As a rule insurance companies don’t like to deal directly with the assured and finding the right person to talk to can be difficult. But it shouldn’t be for your agent

Rick

SteveK · 03-31-2023, 09:34 PM

Looking forward to hearing the explanation from Peter.

Simi 60 · 03-31-2023, 11:38 PM

They've been pulling silly s4it like that in Oz for a while
Usually cyclone related

Stupid part about it is that we have been cruising in the cyclone zone in mostly calm conditions with very few boats - living the dream

But if you are south below the line you avoid cyclones but get smashed with summer storms often several times a week, east coast lows and Southerly Busters.

guy with a boat · 04-01-2023, 12:34 AM

They just want you out of AK and northern BC in the winter. The dates and lat lines vary a little but I think the limitation is pretty common. Some of the carriers will expand the geography for a higher premium.

We had some version of that limitation on our last couple of policies but it wasn’t a problem for us because I head south before winter anyway.

Hippocampus · 04-01-2023, 08:03 AM

At least for US east coast and Caribbean things have changed as severity and expansion the hurricane season has increased. Multiple vendors dropped out of the market. Those that remain are significantly more restrictive. When shopping have done our own search and simultaneously used a broker. Market is fairly consistent. Premium much higher if in the zone during hurricane season. Zone has moved a bit higher north (usually above Hatteras) . Season 1june to sometime in November (date varies). What’s new to me is crew restrictions. If not immediately coastal no single handing without big bump in premium. If offshore number of crew stipulated and some vendors require they vet before transit. Fortunately this doesn’t impact us as our program has changed. But wonder if you could get insurance for a Bermuda one two now.
Premiums increase after every bad storm season and don’t return to baseline. Hard to get insurance for stuff older than 30yrs. Increase in them asking for surveys.

sunchaser · 04-01-2023, 08:20 AM

May 15 is a month or more too late. Some of the best cruising in AK is during the mid Spring Pacific lull. Petersburg has their Norwegian fest in mid May which requires an early May departure from the Seattle area.

But, Peter can shed some light on the subject for ASD’s particular case.

Portage_Bay · 04-01-2023, 09:14 AM

ASD, My broker put me with Red Shield. They're an underwriter specializing in the PNW. I do have geographic and seasonal limits but I have found that my broker can get the geographic limits adjusted when I need them. I don't know about seasonal. With your extensive experience I would expect Red Shield would do the same for you.

I can think of another option that might be worth looking into. An Alaska insurance brokerage. Somebody has to write policies for the boats up there.

ancora · 04-01-2023, 10:01 AM

Calling Geico is a waste of time, as neither their agents nor their underwriters know anything about boats. I spent a month, two surveys a lot of money and effort (DIY) to get my insurance renewed.

tiltrider1 · 04-01-2023, 10:05 AM

For 40 years I have had restrictions on my insurance policy. Every time I have asked to go beyond the restrictions it has been granted. This includes going from Seattle to LA and going to Alaska. While insurance companies like Red Shield retain the right to say no, I have never found them to reject a reasonable request. Now if you ask to go to LA in December I bet they would say no.

I once asked Red Shield if I could extend my off shore limit from 25 miles to 30 miles to avoid crab traps and they granted it instantly.

Moonfish · 04-01-2023, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiltrider1

I once asked Red Shield if I could extend my off shore limit from 25 miles to 30 miles to avoid crab traps and they granted it instantly.

We've had Red Shield for a couple of years now, and they do seem amenable to modifications and extensions.

garbler · 04-01-2023, 03:12 PM

Like almost all insurance policy terms they are based on calculated risks, statistical averages and those gurus who work in Risk Management. Averaging formulas never work with exceptions or experienced mariners no matter how long they’ve been cruising the same waters and coasts. These calculations focus more on the inexperienced and less experienced since statistically there are more of them than highly skilled sailors. And lately the neophyte segment is carrying more hull value than the whiskered element. Go figure but there is solid dollars and cents logic to most of these limitations.

What’s is funny is how archaic some of these navigation rules that are still in place are. They often date back centuries. Take the ‘ Graveyard of the Atlantic ‘ Cape Hatteras and the ‘ outer banks ‘.The mariner’s sayings like ‘ If the Bermudas let you pass, watch out for Hatteras ‘. True enough in the age of sail when coastal trading was heavy from North to South to North, reliable soundings and reliable coastal navigation aids were rare so bad weather and moving shoals left the bottom littered along with Nazi sub targets . Needless to say many of the nav limits are often based on old shipping and Lloyds loss information from the bygone days. Years ago it was not uncommon for old time New England yachtsmen to almost automatically have coverage down the coast, to the Abacos & Exumas and often Bermuda, of course they didn’t deal with GEICO, BoatsUS or Allstate etc.etc.. It’s the job of a good producer/agent/broker to put a face and credentials on the customer/assured so the company can tweak coverages where warranted.

Rick

Alaskan Sea-Duction · 04-01-2023, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portage_Bay

ASD, My broker put me with Red Shield. They're an underwriter specializing in the PNW. I do have geographic and seasonal limits but I have found that my broker can get the geographic limits adjusted when I need them. I don't know about seasonal. With your extensive experience I would expect Red Shield would do the same for you.

I can think of another option that might be worth looking into. An Alaska insurance brokerage. Somebody has to write policies for the boats up there.

Tried Redshield. Lol What a joke. They wanted me on the hard. Coverage 25 miles from mouth of Columbia. Portland is 100 miles. They don't want my money.

Portage_Bay · 04-01-2023, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction

Tried Redshield. Lol What a joke. They wanted me on the hard. Coverage 25 miles from mouth of Columbia. Portland is 100 miles. They don't want my money.

Hope they don't pull the same crap on me at renewal. If so I'll be shopping.

Moonfish · 04-01-2023, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction

Tried Redshield. Lol What a joke. They wanted me on the hard. Coverage 25 miles from mouth of Columbia. Portland is 100 miles. They don't want my money.

Well that sucks. I'm with Portage Bay on this one, hoping they don't pull the same crap with us at renewal.