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Old 01-07-2021, 09:11 PM   #1
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Hi Folks,

I am a new owner of a Grand Banks 42 1999 she is beautiful but no one wants to insure a 20 year old boat any more. The quotes are outrageous.$4000.00 plus. I have been with USAA for 30 years no claims. They sent me to Progressive which just cancelled my policy because she is 20 years old.

I imagine this is a issue all of us older boat owners are grappling with.

I will keep you posted. Any feedback is welcome.

Thanks
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Old 01-07-2021, 09:14 PM   #2
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Welcome aboard and congrats on your new boat. I belong to Boat/US. We have our insurance with them and our boat is a 1987.
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Old 01-07-2021, 09:56 PM   #3
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There is something else going on here. I have a 30 year old boat and no problems with insurance. $4,000 sounds a bit steep but since I have no idea what value you have on the boat nor have you mentioned how much liability you are covering. What area of operations. $4,000 a year sounds like my boat for coverage up and down the west coast but would be high if it was just inland water ways.
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:18 PM   #4
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One challenge I have is the last boat i owned was a 25 ft. sail boat. Insurer's want to see you move up.I would get a better rate if I was trading up from say a 35ft. power boat. I am telling all the insurer's I plan on hiring a Captain for a four week training program which I planned to do no matter what. So much to learn
As I understand from the broker's is insuring a boat prior to the year 2000 is becoming more difficult. Many marine Insurer's are leaving
the business I am told.
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:22 PM   #5
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mikeo, keep shopping, you are asking here in the right place.

I just finished favorable survey on 30 y.o. boat built in BC. That went well, I am with Safeco, but I don't think they will cover boats over about 34' LOA.

Surveyor (very experienced) says big insurer here in PNW is pulling out of market for bigger boats for some reason. I can't say why, will have to work him more with additional home brew.

Condition matters more than years to me. If you have a good survey keep shopping, $4K seems high for your area.

I can see an opportunity for TF "group buy" as there are many responsible lower risk vessels in this on line community.

You just don't see many YouTube videos of trawlers gone wrong.
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:37 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Omikeoreilly View Post
One challenge I have is the last boat i owned was a 25 ft. sail boat. Insurer's want to see you move up.I would get a better rate if I was trading up from say a 35ft. power boat. I am telling all the insurer's I plan on hiring a Captain for a four week training program which I planned to do no matter what. So much to learn
As I understand from the broker's is insuring a boat prior to the year 2000 is becoming more difficult. Many marine Insurer's are leaving
the business I am told.
Interesting. What kind of boat before the 25 sail.
The age of the boat in itself is an excuse. Did it survey well or an arm long list of work. It sounds more like you told them you are not qualified to run a 42. Just a wag. After all you did make a big jump. Even a 30 foot sail needs more skills than a 25 to operate, if you see what I mean.
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:44 PM   #7
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You are so right my friend. We are not the group doing crazy things on the water. One explanation I got from a experienced underwriter I spoke with tonight.
A few years ago there was a big increase in large yacht sales to people with no experience operating them and few qualified underwriter's to oversee the process and the insurer's lost money.
Much harder to insure a boat over 40ft.
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Old 01-07-2021, 11:50 PM   #8
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We thought about buying a larger boat a couple of months ago. I checked with Boat/US just to see what it might cost to insure. It was 17’ larger than our current boat but we used to own a 46’ boat for about 8 years so they said the 17’ jump was fine since we had had the 46’. Their guidelines were larger than a 15’ jump. The price quoted for a 58’ Hatteras LRC valued at $240,000 was $1300 per year. But we are in Michigan so the boat is stored for the winter.
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Old 01-08-2021, 12:23 AM   #9
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Their guidelines were larger than a 15’ jump
Dave, that actual sounds reasonable. while I operated a 70 footer many times with owner aboard, having only owned a few in mid 30's I doubt they would let me make that jump. I am comfortable under 40 knowing I am single handing it even if there is a crew on board. I thought about the 42 GB but decided not today.
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Old 01-08-2021, 06:41 AM   #10
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Your rate of $4K sounds right in line, however you told us the length of your boat but not the value, insurance is based off value, not so much the size. Based upon my recent endeavors getting quotes for 8 different companies, insurance is running about 1%-1.5% of value right now. Then throw in location as a modifier, centerline of US/Mason Dixon Line as baseline, further north, cheaper insurance gets, further south, more expensive it gets.

I ended up using Peter Ricks from this forum who placed us with Boat US, we had zero issues getting quotes on a 40 year old boat@52ft, age of your boat is not your issue. FWIW paid $4500/year using Maryland as location.
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Old 01-08-2021, 08:44 AM   #11
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The age of the boat matters if the policy has a depreciation schedule that applies. 5% a year of depreciation on a 30 year vessel does not leave much. The devils in the details. Does the policy have a depreciation schedule and exactly what does it apply to? Alot of these policies on older boats with depreciation schedules basicly become liability policies.

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Old 01-08-2021, 09:03 AM   #12
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Yes but they still cover environmental cleanup and mine covers salvage...the depreciation is on a partial loss but not the total loss if I understand the policy.



I have an "Agreed value" policy on a 32 year old boat (surveyed for about $20,000 higher. Cost for in year round in Florida a little over $2000.
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Old 01-08-2021, 09:21 AM   #13
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Yes but they still cover environmental cleanup and mine covers salvage...the depreciation is on a partial loss but not the total loss if I understand the policy.



I have an "Agreed value" policy on a 32 year old boat (surveyed for about $20,000 higher. Cost for in year round in Florida a little over $2000.
Correct, But they decide if it is a total loss or not.

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Old 01-08-2021, 09:49 AM   #14
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Correct, But they decide if it is a total loss or not.

Bud

true they evaluate at time of loss but start from the agreed value...not an automatic depreciation...if you disagree, your own evaluation and arbitration is an option.


chances are if you have a halfway decent boat....full coverage is a far cry from liability only.
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Old 01-08-2021, 09:55 AM   #15
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Ask your broker a hypothetical. If your boat sank at the dock and engine room partially filled with water. Probably would not be total loss. How much would you get to repair it? If your boat is 30 years old and your policy has a depreciation schedule you would not get enough to buy an inflatable.

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Old 01-08-2021, 10:19 AM   #16
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Hi Folks,

.... I have been with USAA for 30 years no claims. They sent me to Progressive which just cancelled my policy because she is 20 years old.

Thanks
USAA placed us with Markel when Progressive cancelled us. Markel isn't the lowest cost, but they are currently letting customers do their own 5-7 year renewal survey, which saves a big surcharge and eliminates the inconvenience of inept surveyors invading your space...what a scam that is. Anyway, call USAA and ask them about Markel.
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:25 AM   #17
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Ask your broker a hypothetical. If your boat sank at the dock and engine room partially filled with water. Probably would not be total loss. How much would you get to repair it? If your boat is 30 years old and your policy has a depreciation schedule you would not get enough to buy an inflatable.

Bud

Been in the salvage business long enough that if the entire engine room filled with water...total loss most ikely.


Partial submerge? That's a loaded question.... but even if it were not totaled, then as long as the environmental was paid, and the salvage was paid I can live with that. I can lose money on something paid long ago...but I wouldn't want to pay out of pocket a $100,000 salvage and environmental bill.


So once again...it's NOT just a liability policy even with depreciation.


My broker said it was easy to get a liability policy and for cheap...not so much what I pay for...but I still think it is better risk management than liability only.


Really not all that educated on insurance...hopefully an insurance expert will chime in.
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Old 01-08-2021, 04:47 PM   #18
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So much great feed back here. Thank you all for the valuable info.
Since my last post after reaching out to six or so brokers I am getting some more down to earth Proposals. Waiting to hear from a few others.

This forum was a Godsend when I was looking to buy a Grand Bank's. So much wisdom and practical advice. Can't thank you all enough. I hope to pay you back in the years to come.

When in Norwalk CT. Say hello and come for a cruise.
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Old 01-08-2021, 05:09 PM   #19
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Your rate of $4K sounds right in line, however you told us the length of your boat but not the value, insurance is based off value, not so much the size. Based upon my recent endeavors getting quotes for 8 different companies, insurance is running about 1%-1.5% of value right now. Then throw in location as a modifier, centerline of US/Mason Dixon Line as baseline, further north, cheaper insurance gets, further south, more expensive it gets.

I ended up using Peter Ricks from this forum who placed us with Boat US, we had zero issues getting quotes on a 40 year old boat@52ft, age of your boat is not your issue. FWIW paid $4500/year using Maryland as location.

One percent is high enough... I think that I'd go bear much more than that. If you figure out the value of money, risk you're taking and cost of the premiums paying much more 1% doesn't make sense. If you factor in the everything the break even point is about 15 years. So, just be careful for the first 15 years. Most of use won't have any issues for the first 30 years. I haven't and I've been boating for about 50 years.
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Old 01-09-2021, 08:19 AM   #20
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Been in the salvage business long enough that if the entire engine room filled with water...total loss most ikely.


Partial submerge? That's a loaded question.... but even if it were not totaled, then as long as the environmental was paid, and the salvage was paid I can live with that. I can lose money on something paid long ago...but I wouldn't want to pay out of pocket a $100,000 salvage and environmental bill.


So once again...it's NOT just a liability policy even with depreciation.


My broker said it was easy to get a liability policy and for cheap...not so much what I pay for...but I still think it is better risk management than liability only.


Really not all that educated on insurance...hopefully an insurance expert will chime in.

My point is simple and hopefully understood by OP and others. Policies for older vessels that do not have depreciation schedules are totally different and much better policies than policies that have deprecition schedules that apply. The latter will not help very much in the repair of the vessel (due the math). Comparing policies on premiums and agreed values/deductables alone does not give an acurrate assesment.



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