Disadvantage of buyer's broker ?

[Trawler_traveler]

We just had a strange non-buying experience which makes us wonder if using a buyer's broker might actually be a disadvantage because the seller's broker has to share the commission ?


-Sven

 

[caltexflanc]

It's only a disadvantage when the seller's broker is a complete jerk. The good ones love it when someone brings them a qualified buyer.

 

[DavidM]

It's only a disadvantage when the seller's broker is a complete jerk. The good ones love it when someone brings them a qualified buyer.

David

 

[DrissZougari]

They all want to sell you a boat to secure a commission!

 

[tiltrider1]

Occasionally you will run into a boat were the Selling Broker knows that it will go fast and he does not need to share the commission. In this case he will tell the Buyer Broker that he is not interested in splitting commissions. A good Buyer Broker would inform you of this and if it is really a good deal you might agree to compensate him for handling the transaction. This will satisfy the Selling Broker as he gets all the commission and only does half the work.

Now if this is not the case then I suspect the Selling Broker already knows that he can't sell the boat to an educated buyer and is just blowing everyone off. There is likely something very wrong that needs to be glossed over and he knows another broker will point that out and all the time spent on the deal will be time wasted.

 

[Trawler_traveler]

Occasionally you will run into a boat were the Selling Broker knows that it will go fast and he does not need to share the commission.

This is what I'm wondering if it happened, but if so the seller's broker didn't tell the buyer's broker. It could just have been that the seller was not very savvy or was playing games, but it certainly made us wonder.

Thanks.



-Sven

 

[ddw36]

I used a buyer's broker to find & buy a sailboat I wanted, many years ago, and am glad I did. He did the shopping for me, free of charge. I told him the specifics I wanted in the boat, how I wanted to use it, etc. He sent me several items w/ photos. I looked at many of them, but they didn't "fit." He then sent me another photo of the one I bought. He also was my broker when I sold my boat. (BTW, this was way before the Internet, but I still think it's a good idea.)

 

[Jeff F]

If you're looking for a sub 250k mass market boat you're playing in a seller's market right now. That's incredibly tough for buyers brokers. Listing brokers are far more reluctant to share commissions and may just refuse to cooperate, or cap the broker's portion of the commission.

So yeah, that can easily get in the way.

What're you looking for? Sorry if I missed it in earlier discussions.

 

[Trawler_traveler]

If you're looking for a sub 250k mass market boat you're playing in a seller's market right now. That's incredibly tough for buyers brokers. Listing brokers are far more reluctant to share commissions and may just refuse to cooperate, or cap the broker's portion of the commission.

It is a sellers' market above that price range too and for non-mass market boats so I'm not sure why you put those constraints on the sellers' market ?

We'll continue to use a buyer's broker but we'll be more aware of the possibility that the seller's broker might be working in his own best interest rather than the seller's best interest.


-Sven

 

[tiltrider1]

Work out a plan with your buyer broker. If he knows you are willing to make up some portion of the commission it gives him the power to negotiate with the selling broker. In this market if I was looking for something very specific that is in demand I might tell my buyer broker that if the selling broker won’t split commission at all that I would still pay a fixed amount for his services. Now he has the incentive to split commission but if the selling broker won’t split he still has incentive to proceed.

Most people don’t realize that with a buyer broker you will be using his sales contracts and not the seller’s contracts. My buyer broker makes sure that I always have an out with full refund right up to the end.

 

[sunchaser]

Occasionally you will run into a boat were the Selling Broker knows that it will go fast and he does not need to share the commission. In this case he will tell the Buyer Broker that he is not interested in splitting commissions. A good Buyer Broker would inform you of this and if it is really a good deal you might agree to compensate him for handling the transaction. This will satisfy the Selling Broker as he gets all the commission and only does half the work.

Now if this is not the case then I suspect the Selling Broker already knows that he can't sell the boat to an educated buyer and is just blowing everyone off. There is likely something very wrong that needs to be glossed over and he knows another broker will point that out and all the time spent on the deal will be time wasted.

A smart seller will insure that the his selling broker does not have an exclusive. This opens the door very wide for a potentially quicker sale and inevitable split commission.

 

[Jeff F]

It is a sellers' market above that price range too and for non-mass market boats so I'm not sure why you put those constraints on the sellers' market ?

We'll continue to use a buyer's broker but we'll be more aware of the possibility that the seller's broker might be working in his own best interest rather than the seller's best interest.


-Sven

I don't have any meaningful experience or insight into the higher price range or niche markets, which is why I qualified my statement. Others here do. But I think we can generalize and say that a seller's market makes the role of buyer's broker more tenuous.

I've always thought that any discussion on buyers brokers should be accompanied by the price range and type of boat for that reason. I'm sure the experience varies enormously based on these factors, as well as your individual needs and expectations.

 

[Hippocampus]

We’re using a buyers broker for the first time. Although this will be my 9th documented vessel I’m a newbie in this subset of boats. I’m basically most interested in small Nordhavns. I’m using a nordhavn broker. He and I have developed a close relationship as friends beyond just this transaction. He has a detailed knowledge of these boats, the history of prior transactions, the prior owners and even what work and where it was done on them. He has actually told me to walk away from several boats, what a reasonable offer should be on others including which ones are grossly overpriced.
The experience is frustrating as boats are overpriced due to demand being higher than supply. But truly feel having a buyers broker has been most worthwhile. Although between the nordhavn for sale by owner, yacht world etc. he’s not going to find you a boat you don’t otherwise know about. But he knows the owners and knows which ones are thinking about selling. So there is the possibility my next boat will never get listed. So far especially in this overheated market think having a buyers broker has been a significant resource.

 

[PPandE]

I am absolutely using a buyers broker. One that I can highly recommend, by the way. We have an understanding that if for any reason the seller pays less than 5% commission to my broker, I'll make up the difference. We've considered a few boats FSBO and some of them don't pay a commission.

As far as I know, california and florida are the only two states that license brokers. (Please correct me if this is incorrect) It would be an ethical violation for a licensed broker to fail to forward a bonafide offer from another broker.

 

[tiltrider1]

We’re using a buyers broker for the first time. Although this will be my 9th documented vessel I’m a newbie in this subset of boats. I’m basically most interested in small Nordhavns. I’m using a nordhavn broker. He and I have developed a close relationship as friends beyond just this transaction. He has a detailed knowledge of these boats, the history of prior transactions, the prior owners and even what work and where it was done on them. He has actually told me to walk away from several boats, what a reasonable offer should be on others including which ones are grossly overpriced.
The experience is frustrating as boats are overpriced due to demand being higher than supply. But truly feel having a buyers broker has been most worthwhile. Although between the nordhavn for sale by owner, yacht world etc. he’s not going to find you a boat you don’t otherwise know about. But he knows the owners and knows which ones are thinking about selling. So there is the possibility my next boat will never get listed. So far especially in this overheated market think having a buyers broker has been a significant resource.

The Nordhavn is a great example of using a Buyer's Broker. Just like you have done. I know boats, Surveyors never find as much as I find and yet, if I was in the market for a Nordhavn, the first thing I would do is find an expert Nrodhavn broker to represent me. As you have discovered, he is making sure you get what you are paying for.

 

[tiltrider1]

I am absolutely using a buyers broker. One that I can highly recommend, by the way. We have an understanding that if for any reason the seller pays less than 5% commission to my broker, I'll make up the difference. We've considered a few boats FSBO and some of them don't pay a commission.

As far as I know, california and florida are the only two states that license brokers. (Please correct me if this is incorrect) It would be an ethical violation for a licensed broker to fail to forward a bonafide offer from another broker.

Washington requires brokerages to be licensed and bonded.

 

[PPandE]

Washington requires brokerages to be licensed and bonded.

Good to hear. Thanks

 

[markpierce]

It's only a disadvantage when the seller's broker is a complete jerk. The good ones love it when someone brings them a qualified buyer.

The seller's broker might not forward the buyer's bid. Happened to a friend of mine bidding on a home.

 

[fgarriso]

It's only a disadvantage when the seller's broker is a complete jerk. The good ones love it when someone brings them a qualified buyer.

 

[fgarriso]

Curtis Stokes & Associates are compensated for our work on your behalf by the seller or listing broker and we don’t charge any travel or inspection expenses. You save time because we research, preview and provide feedback and photos on all yachts you consider before you travel extensively to visit each yacht for a personal inspection.

This is not a plug for CS&A. I have used them several times in the past.

 

[ddw36]

Curtis Stokes & Associates are compensated for our work on your behalf by the seller or listing broker and we don’t charge any travel or inspection expenses. You save time because we research, preview and provide feedback and photos on all yachts you consider before you travel extensively to visit each yacht for a personal inspection.

This is not a plug for CS&A. I have used them several times in the past.

I lived in MT at the time & had my heart set on buying a sailboat on the East Coast & sailing to Europe. I contacted this broker (by phone, I think) told him what I wanted. He shopped back there for me, sent me a number of photos of boats w/ specs, etc. I flew out, looked at them, decided none met my needs.
After returning to MT, the broker sent me another photo, etc., of the boat I eventually purchased (via FedExpress, no less) & went out there to take possession. He saved me a lot of time & money, altho expensive as it was.
It was a fine boat, but my plans were shortened & I had to sell. She's sailing in Australian waters as of now.

 

[Group9]

We got put in an awkward position the one time we used a buyer broker.

After he had shown us a couple of dozen boats we didn't really like, we saw an ad in craigslist, of all places, for a local boat, that we just went and looked at on our own and fell in love with and bought.

After finding out that this boat had been for sale for six months without him finding it (or deciding not to show it to us), which perfectly met the parameters we gave him, kept me from feeling guilty when we told him his services were no longer required.

 

[tiltrider1]

We got put in an awkward position the one time we used a buyer broker.

After he had shown us a couple of dozen boats we didn't really like, we saw an ad in craigslist, of all places, for a local boat, that we just went and looked at on our own and fell in love with and bought.

After finding out that this boat had been for sale for six months without him finding it (or deciding not to show it to us), which perfectly met the parameters we gave him, kept me from feeling guilty when we told him his services were no longer required.

I don’t find that awkward at all. I imagine you never discussed non commissionable sales with him. The fact that he didn’t bring it up means he wasn’t a good broker. A good buyer’s broker does more than just finds the boat. They also handle all the paperwork with their forms so all the fine print is known.

None the less, he failed to provide any kind of service and his fee reflected such.

 

[CarlF]

If a listing broker freezes out a buyers broker he can expect the same to happen to him.

The standard brokerage agreement requires the broker to present all offers. If an owner ever discovered that an offer wasn't presented to him he could cancel the brokerage agreement (and I sure would).

The yacht sale world is a very small one. Word gets around fast. A listing broker that screws buyers brokers will find buyers brokers stop bringing him clients. He'll quickly starve.

That said, there are often backroom deals made between the brokers on the commission split. But I'd be surprised if they let that screw up getting the deal done.

The most important thing to remember when using a buyers broker is he is paid by the seller so has a conflict of interest. Assume that anything you tell your broker (like how high you might go in price) will make its way to the sellers broker. And normally the two brokers will talk privately about how to get the seller to come down on price and the buyer to come up. It's all about getting the deal done.

 

[IslandTractor]

We used a buyer's broker and found it very helpful. I wouldn't buy another boat without a good broker on MY side to help. It wasn't so much the identification of possible boats (Yachtworld handles that pretty well) but rather the process that occurs after identification that we found our broker to be so useful. For starters, he spent most of his career as a service manager for Hinkley and other excellent yards so knew boat maintenance issues backwards and forwards...much more useful than a simple survey. Secondly, he was able to give concrete advice on what similar boats actually sold for and could call other brokers to compare condition etc of sold boats. Finally, he simply knew the process so insured that we got cooperation from the selling broker in ways we wouldn't have thought to ask (arranging a delivery crew for example).

 

[Coalman]

Hi Sven, we used a buyers broker, Mike Martin at Curtis Stokes, and had a great experience. We wouldn't do it any other way IMO. We are first time boaters and first time buyers, a second set of eyes is not a bad thing. He is a very experienced boater and broker specializing in long range trawlers, who guided us through the whole buying process. brokered the negociations, financing, survey, taking ownership, etc. He traveled from the Carolinas to northern Michigan, the week before Christmas to be with us during our initial walk thru inspection while the boat was in dry storage and then again in May, for the on the water survey after the break up on lake Michigan. It didn't cost us anything. Another consideration is he will represent us if and when we decide to sell. Don't see the downside.

 

[JLD]

We’re using a buyers broker for the first time. Although this will be my 9th documented vessel I’m a newbie in this subset of boats. I’m basically most interested in small Nordhavns. I’m using a nordhavn broker. He and I have developed a close relationship as friends beyond just this transaction. He has a detailed knowledge of these boats, the history of prior transactions, the prior owners and even what work and where it was done on them. He has actually told me to walk away from several boats, what a reasonable offer should be on others including which ones are grossly overpriced.
The experience is frustrating as boats are overpriced due to demand being higher than supply. But truly feel having a buyers broker has been most worthwhile. Although between the nordhavn for sale by owner, yacht world etc. he’s not going to find you a boat you don’t otherwise know about. But he knows the owners and knows which ones are thinking about selling. So there is the possibility my next boat will never get listed. So far especially in this overheated market think having a buyers broker has been a significant resource.

I'm wondering if this is a correct statement? It could be that he might have some insight on a boat(s) before they come to market. As a nordhavn broker he might hear about an owner who is thinking about putting their boat on the market, before they actually do so.

Jim

 

[Moon]

Buyers' brokers are worth the expense

As a maritime attorney and multiple boat owner I know the value of enlisting the aid of buyer's broker. Most brokers are ethical and will not risk losing a good reputation or sale by playing games. Yes, a conflict of interest may arise when brokers are anxious to earn a commission but the benefit of having a professional on your side far outweighs that risk. Brokers that have been in the field for a long time know their niche markets. Frequently they have familiarity with the vessels you might be interested in that far exceeds casual observation. Some may have handled a sale of the vessel you like previously. Brokers can look up sale prices of comparable vessels to aid you in arriving at a fair market offer. The seller's broker takes the "more the merrier" approach and only has allegiance to the seller. If you work with a buyer's broker be honest with your expectations and disclose the fact that you will be shopping on your own in the classifieds. Most buyer's brokers will expect that and offer assistance in the transaction if you want it. IMO unless you are an experienced buyer or a maritime attorney it is worth the expense. I have received too many calls from buyers with remorse and no recourse to count. Once the transaction is completed there is little a lawyer can do unless you are the victim of fraud.

 

[ProMaritime]

Ya think? Of course it does. Greed is everywhere.

 

[Lollygag1]

Our buyers broker experience was great, he was able to point out items we likely would have missed and helped with the negotiations which saved us close to $10k. Plus he assisted on surveyor, transport and other items. Since it was out first big boat his services were invaluable.

While I am sure no broker wants to share commission most understand its part of the business and frankly want to sell boats quickly.