Dad Bought a boat need help

[TwistedSeraph]

Hello everybody I’m new to the forum and I know this isn’t the place to say hello but as this is my first post I wanted to say hello nonetheless.

OK here’s the problem. My father just bought a low hour 2013 CROWNLINE 18 SS. The dealer called him just tonight to inform him that they did not winterize the boat it set outside and has a cracked block. They’re trying to replace the engine which is a 4.3 L V6 with a rebuilt. This one has higher hours. Original 43 hours rebuilt 130 hrs. My first instinct was to tell him to cancel the sale and run for his life. Do you agree? Second question is does anyone know how much this would devalue the boat? We’re going to meet them tomorrow any response from someone who knows more about boats than I do would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your time.

p.s. It is a beautiful boat. Like new other than the dealerships horrible mistake. 43 hours on this unit. Terrible waste. Or not…let me know what ya think. ��

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard. Not really that much difference between the engine hours. But why was the rebuilt engine rebuilt? Are the 130 hours after the rebuild? If so it is probably ok since it has been run for a while. But I agree that the value may have dropped with the rebuilt engine.

 

[TwistedSeraph]

He paid right at $30,000 for this boat so I’m wondering what a realistic devaluation might be.

 

[TwistedSeraph]

The boat has 43 hours on it and the new rebuilt engine has 130 plus or minus on it. Just going by what dad told me on the phone earlier. It’s Good to know that in June ours aren’t necessarily a dealbreaker.Thanks for the feed back. ��

 

[Bacchus]

John
Welcome aboard TF.
I'll start by saying that boat is not exactly the mainstream of TF but many members have pretty wide & varied experiences and may be able to shed some light on the subject.

130 hours is still very low hours for a 2013 boat so I don't think devaluation is a major consideration. I believe if you look up NADA boat values for that (or any boat) one of the variables they ask for is eng hours. You can plug in the #s and compare values as a point of info.

I would question & ask for confirmation is the replacement simply a used eng or was it in fact been rebuilt?
If rebuilt, what is the history - what was the reason for rebuilding with only 130 hours? Who did the rebuild and what was replaced as part of the "rebuild"? What is the warranty on the rebuild? What data is available on the engine post rebuild? Compression check?

You might make the deal contingent on a sea trial and inspection by a 3rd party mechanic that might do a compression test as part of his inspection.

Hopefully by probing some more you will get a sense of whether this is a slap in a used eng to complete the sale or a dealer trying to do the right thing.
You can always consider making an (reduced) offer based on your NADA findings and the rebuild info.

 

[JLD]

I would be tempted to cancel the sale. At the very least tell the dealer you want a couple of days to think about it. I probably wouldn't buy a non-operating boat with the hope the dealer gets the rebuild right. I would also find out what do they consider a rebuild?

I haven't researched the prices on these boats, but I'm wondering if 30K is a fair price for this boat? The Crownline Boat Owners facebook group is pretty active, I would ask there about any valuation questions on the boat, www.facebook.com/groups/2697985929.

Jim

 

[BruceK]

I read the OP as saying the original engine had 43 hours recorded, and the proposed replacement engine records 130 hours since being rebuilt. If that`s correct, the replacement is 130 hours into its second life and less valuable than the original.

How much less I don`t know. What is the likely life in hours of these engines, and what does a rebuild cost? With that information, it should be possible to guess at the reduced value, but you still have a reman engine whereas previously you had a near new 43 hour engine in a 43 hour boat.

 

[Comodave]

The problem is that right now the market is crazy. Prices are high and supply is low. So who knows what it has or hasn’t done to the value. Last time I looked at NADA it didn’t ask for engine hours. To my mind it would all depend on the quality of the rebuild.

 

[READY]

Rebuilding a 4.3 gas engine does not seem to make sense. Probably better to either replace with new or worse case a factory remanufactured. You will never know the history of the rebuilt (prior to the rebuild) nor the quality of the rebuild. Personally I would tell them either put in a new engine or no deal. I would even be willing to be fair and up the price by perhaps $1k.

 

[AlaskaProf]

I don't know anything about the boat nor the motor, but I wouldn't do business with anyone so careless with the inventory. Get your money back and run.

 

[BandB]

Run away and restart the entire process, but learn some things from this. First, 43 hours on an 8+ year old boat is very suspicious. Rebuilt engines always bring questions. Unacceptable as substitute. Did same dealer who failed to winterize rebuild it?

Second, always buy subject sea trial and survey as part of the deal. I don't care that it's an inexpensive boat. $2-3,000 to not make a $30,000 mistake is still worthwhile.

Third, when you have reason not to trust someone, listen very carefully to what is telling you not to trust them. Don't trust this dealer.

 

[CharlieO.]

had the same thought as B, the place that failed to winterize is the ones I'll trust to R and R a used engine and stand behind it? Even though the engine is rebuilt it is used 130 hrs.

 

[Gdavid]

I would suggest trusting your instincts and advise your father to walk away at this point if he can still do so. Winterizing the engine on a inboard/outboard is one of the most standard and critical requirements for a boat like this in a region with a freezing season. The fact that this was overlooked, either by the prior owner or when it was owned by the dealership does not bode well for the rest of the boat.

The care that a boat receives is equally important to the initial quality of the boat, in most cases, the two are closely tied together, as in: when someone buys a higher tier brand (and Crownline is, I think), they generally have the means and awareness take care of it better than the budget brand item. They are kept under cover or inside and maintenance is kept up with. There are exceptions to this rule and it is too common for first time boat owners who assume that a boat is made for the marine environment so it probably won't be harmed if it gets wet. A simple thing like failing to remove a drain plug and not covering or poorly covering a trailered boat can ruin the whole thing in the coarse of a winter as it can fill up with water and "sink" on dry land. This is especially damaging to boats with wooden coring, stringers, and subdecks but it can damage wood-free boats as. Trapped water freezing can bust a boats stringers and deck apart just as easily as it can crack an engine block.

 

[High Wire]

Would you still buy if it was a low mileage new car but they changed the engine with a questionable used engine? No way on principle. They changed the deal , worse for you, and hope you will just take it. Sorry there are thousands of used boats to buy.

 

[Osprey69]

I don't know anything about the boat nor the motor, but I wouldn't do business with anyone so careless with the inventory. Get your money back and run.

This. Dealer cant even get a winterization right. I would not trrust to wash my boat.

 

[Solly]

I'd want to see proof of the rebuild. Receipt for machine shop work and parts lists.
Still the rebuilt engine has 130 hours plus whatever was on it b-4 the rebuild if I'm reading this right.
I'd hold out for a factory rebuilt engine if you go that route.
When/how did the dealer find out the block was cracked ?
At the very least start over....

 

[slowgoesit]

Run, unless the dealership can provide detailed receipts from a reputable overhaul shop, I'd give this boat a pass. Otherwise, tell them you want the price reduced for the cost of a factory re-manufactured engine.

 

[Benthic2]

I agree with the comment about not trusting a dealer who can't manage to winterize a boat.

Is it common for temps to go below freezing there ? In other words did a freakish cold snap catch the dealer off guard, or did they just plain drop the ball ?

How and when they discovered the problem is HUGE !!! Did they show your dad the boat knowing the block was cracked and not reveal this until after papers were signed? Did your dad witness the engine running when he looked at the boat ? Were they showing the boat to another potential buyer after your dad had signed papers ? It just seems odd that they would discover this after an agreement was reached with a buyer.

I admit that I tend to be suspicious of dealers so I may be biased, but I would find another model boat that has that engine and I would call a competing dealer and ask "I have a brand X boat that I want to replace the 4.3L engine in......could you do that? What's the cost difference between new, factor remanufactured, and local rebuild. What is the availability of a new engine ?

IF you trust the dealer.... and IF they can provide proof of a full quality rebuild job, I would insist on 2 year towing membership in addition to whatever warranty the rebuilt engine comes with. ( if the rebuild doesn't have a warranty, deal is off )

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. TS. Yes. Get out of the deal any way you can. Rebuilt replacement motor? So the engine was rebuilt then used for 130 hours in ANOTHER boat and now wants to live in your dad's boat????? I don't think so. Use every legal means to get the $$ back even if it means a lawyer and a court hearing.
That dealer is a charlatan. As was mentioned, a LOT of boats for sale that don't have excess "baggage".

 

[Lollygag1]

My first question when I read this is what else did the dealer NOT do? Also what will be the quality of the work that is done and has been done?

The only way I would consider this is if the dealer provided an unconditional 2 year warranty on all systems. They wont. I would bail.

 

[Seevee]

TOTALLY AGREE WITH THE OTHERS ABOVE.... pass on this one... too many red flags, and a 130hr rebuilt engine? There's probably more to the story.


NOW, WHAT'S YOUR GOAL FOR THIS PURCHASE? If day cruising, occasionally overnight and light duty boating, I'd pass all together on an IO. Get a simple single engine outboard. MUCH more reliable.

 

[mvweebles]

Smaller go-fast boats such as this, I would recommend pinging "TheHullTruth.Com" forum. They are much more in to smaller-sized boats, many fishermen. They can likely help with valuation.

Nothing untoward about the dealer - sounds like they came clean and offered a fairly reasonable solution, though your dad is in a tough spot. Definitely a big change - enough to trigger run-don't-walk response. But Dealer can likely re-sell the boat without discount even with disclosure. Problem here is the surprise-factor - goods-delivered are materially different than goods-represented.

Good luck -

Peter

 

[SoWhat]

I'm a little confused about the hours listed. The engine with a cracked block should have about 500 hours. It could be repaired with a short block or long block (with heads) Long block would run about $2500 and add another $2500 for labor. You then have an engine with 0 hours.

You could but a new OEM engine for $10K, labor not included. The larger question is the warranty the dealer is offering on the rebuilt engine. How many years or how many hours, and where can it be repaired. If limited to the dealer only... I'd be a little hesitant to have warranty work done at a dealer who can't winterize an engine.

Loss of value wouldn't be my major concern. $30K is at the top of the market and sooner or later the market will come back down to earth.

 

[JLD]

NOW, WHAT'S YOUR GOAL FOR THIS PURCHASE? If day cruising, occasionally overnight and light duty boating, I'd pass all together on an IO. Get a simple single engine outboard. MUCH more reliable.

If you wanted to go even simpler, as there are no lower units on a jet boat, I would recommend checking out a Yamaha SX190 or AR190 jetboat. $30K could get something from 2018/2019. Yamaha also has a very large dealer network. There is a fantastic group of folks over at jetboaters.net to ask questions of. While not dedicated to Yamaha boats, Yamaha dominates the jet boat market, so most boat specific threads are about Yamaha boats.

Jim

 

[alormaria]

What happened to the boat that used the rebuilt engine for 130 hours?

 

[Art]

Boat condition [in general] sounds great!

Dealer capability seems very poor.

Engine as a rebuild you will never know all the facts of = Absolute No Go!

Overall suggestion by me: Do Not Purchase unless a certified "Brand New" same style engine is put in correctly with full written guarantee.

As some one else mentioned... your dad could even add a grand or so to purchase price for the new engine. IMO, if purchased with used/rebuilt engine then minimum of $5K off price - as long as careful mechanic inspection is first completed.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Boat condition [in general] sounds great!

Dealer capability seems very poor.

Engine as a rebuild you will never know all the facts of = Absolute No Go!

Overall suggestion by me: Do Not Purchase unless a certified "Brand New" same style engine is put in correctly with full written guarantee.

As some one else mentioned... your dad could even add a grand or so to purchase price for the new engine. IMO, if purchased with used/rebuilt engine then minimum of $5K off price - as long as careful mechanic inspection is first completed.

Nope. There is someone honest out there who has something better. Go find it.

 

[SteveK]

Original 43 hours rebuilt 130 hrs

A 2013 boat with only 43 hours on the engine in 8 boat years, I don't think so. Pictures of the boat should show it in showroom mint condition with 43 hr runtime. Does not add up.

Similar engine with 130 hours on rebuild sounds plausible. As others alluded how many hours on the rebuilt engine before rebuild. Was it a 2013 engine too?

Either the OP does not have the correct number of original hours, was misinformed by seller agent, but something is not right. Does not make sense.

Unlike others that say run run run, I would want the correct facts before a decision is made. Maybe the boat sat for 8 years unused because the block froze in the first year.
The buyer is in the drivers seat and should exercise that right to know all the facts. Independent inspection reports perhaps, was it mechanically surveyed.

An eight year old boat should not be walked away from with knowing all the facts.

 

[Shrew]

First off. I'm curious about the replacement engine. Is this a re-manned engine from Mercruiser with a warranty? Or is this just a swap from another boat?? These are very different animals. I've never heard them state the hours on a remanned engine. It is usually considered ZERO hours since the entire engine is rebuilt

 

[SBR]

RUN! TwistedSeraph RUN!

Find another boat and dealer.