All Oceans Closing for DIY Sale??

[DonW28]

We are getting close to a DIY listing for our 06 34T Mainship and were looking at All Oceans Closings out of Dania FL to handle the paperwork and escrow. Seems like a smart way to protect us and the future purchaser. Does anyone have any personal experience with them? Other marine escrow companies in Florida that you could recommend?


Merry Christmas to all,


Don

 

[BYNW]

Options

It's my understanding that the Florida companies don't handle the funds. I would connect with a firm that takes care of the documentation and funds. i can personally recommend Marine Documentation Services (Anacortes WA), Pacific Maritime Title (Seattle), or Anacortes Marine Documentation (Anacortes). I realize they are not in your area but they all handle interstate and international deals on a daily basis.

Marine Documentation Service, Inc.
3.5(8) · Title company
25+ years in business · Anacortes, WA · (360) 299-3272
Open ⋅ Closes 4PM

Pacific Maritime Title LLC
4.8(12) · Title company
10+ years in business · Seattle, WA · (206) 632-4668
Open ⋅ Closes 4:30PM

Anacortes Marine Documentation LLC
No reviews · Title company
Anacortes, WA · (360) 588-4876
Open ⋅ Closes 5PM

 

[Judy at JWY]

ASAP Marine Documentation does have an escrow account. Kimberly Clark has been my doc agent of choice for many years. (954) 926-2387.

 

[DonW28]

It's my understanding that the Florida companies don't handle the funds. I would connect with a firm that takes care of the documentation and funds. i can personally recommend Marine Documentation Services (Anacortes WA), Pacific Maritime Title (Seattle), or Anacortes Marine Documentation (Anacortes). I realize they are not in your area but they all handle interstate and international deals on a daily basis.

Marine Documentation Service, Inc.
3.5(8) · Title company
25+ years in business · Anacortes, WA · (360) 299-3272
Open ⋅ Closes 4PM

Pacific Maritime Title LLC
4.8(12) · Title company
10+ years in business · Seattle, WA · (206) 632-4668
Open ⋅ Closes 4:30PM

Anacortes Marine Documentation LLC
No reviews · Title company
Anacortes, WA · (360) 588-4876
Open ⋅ Closes 5PM

Thank you for the recommendations. While I am likely to stay along the east coast it is good to have options. And these days with everything electronic it isn't the issue it used to be.


Don

 

[DonW28]

ASAP Marine Documentation does have an escrow account. Kimberly Clark has been my doc agent of choice for many years. (954) 926-2387.

Thank you for the recommendation.


Don

 

[twistedtree]

What are you wanting this company to do, especially for a DIY sale? Just be an escrow agent?

 

[DonW28]

While escrow is certainly a big one they can also handle all the document prep and title work. Having once signed a vehicle title in the wrong way (middle initial and not full name) I can tell you that fixing it wasn't easy. I think the buyer would 100% appreciate knowing that the USCG documentation required to properly transfer the boat is filled out correctly and the boat has a clear title with no liens. I can certainly draw up a generic sales contract off the internet but have sometimes found it best to let people that do certain things every day handle them for you. And having just signed a pile of documents electronically that sure seems like the way to go. Can't cost that much and probably will be split between the buyer and us. Just a nice piece of mind thing for both parties I would think.



Don

 

[rgano]

I will someday sell my current boat the way I did my Grand Banks 42. Created a web page through a friend who is a website developer and advertised the boat on a couple of boat trading sites with either a link, if allowed, or other method to allow the shopper to find it. Buyer wired money to my bank, and we went there to confirm and use their notary services to sign the USCG doc transfer/bill of sale I got off thier website. Two weeks beginning to end.

 

[DonW28]

I will someday sell my current boat the way I did my Grand Banks 42. Created a web page through a friend who is a website developer and advertised the boat on a couple of boat trading sites with either a link, if allowed, or other method to allow the shopper to find it. Buyer wired money to my bank, and we went there to confirm and use their notary services to sign the USCG doc transfer/bill of sale I got off thier website. Two weeks beginning to end.

I would love to do it that way. But being someone that doesn't finance things isn't there more to it if the buyer has a boat loan? I find it awfully hard to believe that some bank would give a person $$$ and let them hand it over to me and have me give them a clear bill of sale. This has got to be more complicated with most buyers. What is a preferred lien the internet references on the documentation. I just pulled out my USCG documentation and there is nothing on the back about a mortgage holder having any rights to the vessel. Seems an easy way to rip off banks.



Guess the flip side of it is as long as I get paid what do I care. Except somewhere in the fine print that I know nothing about there is most likely one or more obscure federal statues that would make me responsible as well.



Is it really as easy as wire the money and sign the back of the USCG documentation or is this the best case with a cash buyer?


Don

 

[rgano]

Absolutely was that easy. His problem to get the money. It is only mine to accept the transfer and away he went. He got into town on Saturday after his surveyor checked it out on Thursday and Friday. We ran the boat around some for him Sunday after he and crew spent the night aboard and agreed on a price. By Monday 0900 he had his bank wire the money. We left my pier headed for Texas at 1100 and by 1200 I was stepping off the boat onto a bridge abutment after checking him out on the laptop navigation I leant him for the trip. At 1210 the Calypso disappeared around a bend in the ICW never to be seen by me again after 29 years owning her.

 

[twistedtree]

I think your purchase agreement is way more important. Signing the documentation certificate and transferring payment is the easy part. Re documenting in the buyers name is their job to do, as is any lien search.

I’d suggest starting with a boat purchase and sale agreement that can be found on the internet. Maybe find a couple because they do vary a bit. At least you can use them to become familiar with typical terms.

All this said, they buyer will typically present you with a proposed contract. I’ve never heard of a title company helping with a purchase agreement. They usually ask you for it so they know what they are supposed to do.

 

[DonW28]

I think your purchase agreement is way more important. Signing the documentation certificate and transferring payment is the easy part. Re documenting in the buyers name is their job to do, as is any lien search.

I’d suggest starting with a boat purchase and sale agreement that can be found on the internet. Maybe find a couple because they do vary a bit. At least you can use them to become familiar with typical terms.

All this said, they buyer will typically present you with a proposed contract. I’ve never heard of a title company helping with a purchase agreement. They usually ask you for it so they know what they are supposed to do.

I'll develop one based on the sources from the internet. Sounds like this is no different than selling a titled car. If I can show up at the bank and sign the documentation and have the sales price wired into my account then I'll be a happy ex-boater. I can point the buyer to these services if they need something.


I do need to get smarter on borrowing money though. I still find it hard to believe a company would loan someone money to purchase something like a boat and not require some legal documentation to attach a claim to the boat. Guess as the seller it is not my problem. I sign over the boat and that is between them.


Thanks for the input and I'll draft up that purchase agreement


Don

 

[Judy at JWY]

Sorry to throw saltwater on this, but as long as it goes well, it is easy. There are many pitfalls for Sellers and Buyers. Why not rely on professionals? As in professionals in the marine industry that have repeatedly closed boat sales by the hundreds into the thousands of transactions. This thread sound like you guys are relying an awfully lot on the internet for a significant transaction.

 

[DonW28]

Sorry to throw saltwater on this, but as long as it goes well, it is easy. There are many pitfalls for Sellers and Buyers. Why not rely on professionals? As in professionals in the marine industry that have repeatedly closed boat sales by the hundreds into the thousands of transactions. This thread sound like you guys are relying an awfully lot on the internet for a significant transaction.

I'll end up hiring one of the services and likely the one you recommended. Was going through the paperwork this morning and realized the dinghy was electronically titled in Florida. No clue how to transfer that document and since this is the first and only time I will ever have any boat titled in Florida I'm not going to learn. So a documented trawler, a state titled dinghy and if I decide to sell it as well the dinghy trailer is titled in NC.



Don

 

[Judy at JWY]

Is the trawler also going to be State titled in Florida or just the dinghy? Be aware of the possibility of FL. sales tax being required, even on the dinghy. Kimberly will explain it all to you.

 

[DonW28]

Is the trawler also going to be State titled in Florida or just the dinghy? Be aware of the possibility of FL. sales tax being required, even on the dinghy. Kimberly will explain it all to you.

6% sales tax will be due in Florida if the boat remains in the state. As a private party sale it is collected by the DMV/County tax office when the boat and dinghy are registered. Only way around that is to remove the boat from Florida waters before it is legally required to be registered. I had to research this one a bunch before we brought this boat into Florida waters the first time. At least if you were a resident of another state and were leaving here then you are off the hook. Can't speak for your home state of course. Hard to avoid taxes one place or another.


Don

 

[Judy at JWY]

6% sales tax will be due in Florida if the boat remains in the state. As a private party sale it is collected by the DMV/County tax office when the boat and dinghy are registered. Only way around that is to remove the boat from Florida waters before it is legally required to be registered... Hard to avoid taxes one place or another.

Please check this out carefully. I'm not sure what is meant by "removing it before it is legally required." My understanding is that in a private sale conducted in the State of Florida that FL sales tax is due. IF buying through a broker, the broker can offer a Sales Tax Exemption which has various options with the longest one being able to remain in the state for 180 days before being required to leave for another taxing jurisdiction (meaning for example you can't go from FL to Bahamas but are required to show proof (fuel or dockage receipt) that you have arrived in another state.)

 

[DonW28]

Please check this out carefully. I'm not sure what is meant by "removing it before it is legally required." My understanding is that in a private sale conducted in the State of Florida that FL sales tax is due. IF buying through a broker, the broker can offer a Sales Tax Exemption which has various options with the longest one being able to remain in the state for 180 days before being required to leave for another taxing jurisdiction (meaning for example you can't go from FL to Bahamas but are required to show proof (fuel or dockage receipt) that you have arrived in another state.)

Another good reason to use a service. However, Florida law places no obligation that I can find on the "seller" of a boat to collect and remit sales tax. That is done at point of registration by the county tax office. So it was seem logical that if a non-resident bought a boat in Florida and then left the state and never registered it in Florida there would be no sales tax due. I bought a 25 foot Hydra-Sport in Tampa many years ago, paid for it, hooked it to the truck and drove back to NC. Never heard a word from Florida and the boat was titled and registered in NC. The law is quite clear that there is an exempt status for non-residents buying from a broker. Hard to fathom that they would force non-residents to pay sales tax on a private sale. Again, let the experts handle it but I'm pretty confident that if you live in Texas and move the boat there you aren't paying Florida sales tax on it unless you stay in Florida waters long enough to legally have to register it.



Don

 

[Shrew]

Buyer wired money to my bank, and we went there to confirm and use their notary services to sign the USCG doc transfer/bill of sale I got off thier website.

This protects the seller with no protection for the buyer. The bank isn't acting as the escrow in this case. He paid you cash in good faith that you were named as the sole owner on a title (with no liens) and that you would sign that title over to him. You were fully protected, while the buyer had zero protections here.

Alternative payments such as certified check, cashiers check, personal check, have no protections for the seller.

There are only two methods which protect both parties:

1) Cash and title transfer at closing

2) Wire Transfer to neutral 3rd party into an escrow account.

 

[Seevee]

This is not rocket science, but if uncomfy with the paperwork, hire someone that does that to protect YOU. The buyer may want his own closing agent or do it himself like I do, and if I was forced to deal with your agent, I'll probably pass.



As mentioned, the purchase agreement is far more important, spelling out the terms and conditions, payment, inspections, discrepancies, etc., etc.

 

[Judy at JWY]

I have just started a new thread: Purchasing a boat in Florida: sales taxes

Please don't shoot the messenger! This is not self-serving as buying a boat in Florida through a broker does not exempt you from paying taxes, it just buys you time (10 - 180 days) to get out of dodge if you are not planning on keeping the boat in Fl. Private sales have no exemptions.

 

[Shrew]

This is not rocket science, but if uncomfy with the paperwork, hire someone that does that to protect YOU. The buyer may want his own closing agent or do it himself like I do, and if I was forced to deal with your agent, I'll probably pass.

As mentioned, the purchase agreement is far more important, spelling out the terms and conditions, payment, inspections, discrepancies, etc., etc.

I'm not uncomfortable with paperwork. I am, however, curious how you handle the transfer of funds and title?

When you say you refuse to deal with an agent, we're talking about a escrow company, not a broker here (I assume). Are you talking about from the perspective of the buyer or the seller?

As a seller, I'm not signing a title without being able to verify funds. As a buyer I'm not wiring money into your account trusting that the deal will close.

 

[Seevee]

I'm not uncomfortable with paperwork. I am, however, curious how you handle the transfer of funds and title?

When you say you refuse to deal with an agent, we're talking about a escrow company, not a broker here (I assume). Are you talking about from the perspective of the buyer or the seller?

As a seller, I'm not signing a title without being able to verify funds. As a buyer I'm not wiring money into your account trusting that the deal will close.

Shrew,
The absolute easiest way is to meet and do everything at the table together, after all the conditions, inspections, title work, etc., has been done. The buyer presents the check, or makes a wire transfer at a bank, if you meet there. And the seller signs the bill of sale, and notarizes the Document, if needed.



I have had problems with agents and escrow companies, so I avoid them. I like to put everything in my favor, but will bend, depending on the seller/buyer and the boat. Generally, I'll sell on a first check gets it, but will hold it for someone to do an inspection or if they're traveling to see it. I rarely use deposits unless they're non refundable, and never had an issue. Just do the deal quickly... even if it costs a few extra dollars.



One of my pet peeves, is that many brokers want a contract and deposit before you even see the boat, let alone take it out. Who the hell would agree to that???? Every boat I've purchased, I've had a ride in it prior to a contract or a deposit, and I certainly don't mind paying the expenses. And, they promise to return your deposit if you don't like it, BUT it requires the signature of the buyer, seller and agent to release it. I had one agent that wouldn't... years ago, and I filed a complaint with their regulatory folks and they lost their license. Just don't deal with that anymore.

 

[friz]

I have just started a new thread: Purchasing a boat in Florida: sales taxesPlease don't shoot the messenger! This is not self-serving as buying a boat in Florida through a broker does not exempt you from paying taxes, it just buys you time (10 - 180 days) to get out of dodge if you are not planning on keeping the boat in Fl. Private sales have no exemptions.

I am responding to a new thread Purchasing a boat in Florida: sales taxes. Have you ever thought your tax dollars are being wasted? Siphoned off into graft and corruption? Absolutely they are. So at every opportunity I will not pay taxes to employ useless employees at my expense. So when you sell your boat in Florida or any other state where you have the opportunity, on the title record the sales price with the decimal point moved to the left.