*Inspect rudder actuator oil 30 seconds
The oil is in a plastic container just need to look at it how long dose it take you ?
Volvo Service Cost
- Thread starter MichaelB1969
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
*Inspect rudder actuator oil 30 seconds
The oil is in a plastic container just need to look at it how long dose it take you ?
*Inspect rudder actuator oil 30 seconds
The oil is in a plastic container just need to look at it how long dose it take you ?
If you happen to be sitting in front of the plastic container, 30 seconds might be fair, but you have to get to the bottle to look at it and you have to go back to where you were afterwards and then you have to fill out the form that you checked it and it was OK.
Let's remember that service includes getting to the boat, getting on the boat, gaining access to the work area, going for parts, doing the work, cleaning up, closing up, getting back to the office, disposing of the old parts and filling out the paperwork.
Quite often, standard services like a 200 hr service on a particular engine has a fixed labor rate based on how long it normally takes to do that service, rather than actually timing the mechanic. This is simpler and allows the shop to quote a price, rather than an estimate.
TDunn
Guru
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2015
- Messages
- 889
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Tortuga
- Vessel Make
- Nunes Brothers Raised Deck Cruiser
This is interesting since I am going to be doing the 200 hour service on my Volvo-Penta diesel on Wednesday. I expect it is going to cost me about $135 if I change the air filter or $40 if I don't. The job should take no more than two hours.
Last edited:
sunchaser
Guru
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2008
- Messages
- 10,194
- Location
- usa
- Vessel Name
- sunchaser V
- Vessel Make
- DeFever 48 (sold)
I change my own oil. For me a requirement is a good supply of absorbent pads. Geez I use a lot and spend more time cleaning up and fiddling around than the less messy pros.
Like Irene says, a good Volvo guy is a must. If not treated right the newer designs can get cranky.
Like Irene says, a good Volvo guy is a must. If not treated right the newer designs can get cranky.
Fletcher500
Guru
Volvo parts are expensive and the local dealers are known to charge a lot. With that said, I think the noted cost for the parts and repairs are reasonable.
You wouldn't use Volvo parts if you did it yourself. Most of it is oil & filters, and quality filters would be about half what Volvo charges.[/QUOTE]
The cost of an oil filter is related to the quality. I have had Volvo engines for 23 years I have replaced the oil filters every year. Sometimes I use Volvo filters, sometimes other brands. Each weighs according to the amount of filter medium inside. The Volvo filters are heaviest, proportionally to their higher price. If you are changing after 50 hours you probably don't need anything above a Wix. If after 250 hours you probably benefit by using Volvo brand. Other brands in between.
The cost of an oil filter is related to the quality. I have had Volvo engines for 23 years I have replaced the oil filters every year. Sometimes I use Volvo filters, sometimes other brands. Each weighs according to the amount of filter medium inside. The Volvo filters are heaviest, proportionally to their higher price. If you are changing after 50 hours you probably don't need anything above a Wix. If after 250 hours you probably benefit by using Volvo brand. Other brands in between.[/QUOTE]
I use OEM. Always. However, I also negotiate good prices on them. Often if you'll commit to a supplier 100% loyalty they'll agree to a discount on all sales.
SOJOURN4
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2012
- Messages
- 172
- Vessel Name
- SOJOURN
- Vessel Make
- SWIFT TRAWLER 44
GOING T O DO MY OWN PRE WINTER SERVICE THIS YEAR.
340 hrs on engines.
If all goes well. I suspect 3 hrs per engine (oil, fuel filters, impellers, etc.)
Parts have an incremental cost over Cummings.
340 hrs on engines.
If all goes well. I suspect 3 hrs per engine (oil, fuel filters, impellers, etc.)
Parts have an incremental cost over Cummings.
I use OEM. Always. However, I also negotiate good prices on them. Often if you'll commit to a supplier 100% loyalty they'll agree to a discount on all sales.[/QUOTE]
Weight has absolutely nothing to do with filter quality
Weight has absolutely nothing to do with filter quality
[/QUOTE]The post you quoted in the box and showed as mine was not mine. It was Richard's. Mine was the OEM line only. So, I said nothing about weight.
where are the engine anodes on the newer D4-300?
thanks!
what filters do you guys recommend?
thanks!
North Baltic sea
Guru
My old volvo KAD44 does not have any anode in the engine, D4 machine is unknown.
Mann filter manufactures at least part of Volvo Penta filters for their brand.
I used my old boat with 2 x Volvo KAD44 Mann filter filters 1/2 price vs volvo. Mann filter worked well in laboratory tests that compared different brand filters
NBs
Last edited:
Agreed,
But when you're paying $100 a hour that should cover THEIR overhead. And one of my biggest pet peeves is paying that rate for drive time to the boat. They are not using skill to get to the boat. Most of my mechanics don't over charge for drive time.
And, yes, the mechanic IS in the boat to do his things and stuff like looking at bottle of rudder fluid or coolant is 30 second. Heck, it doesn't take me 5 sec. Inspection of things if one doesn't have to remove things is measured in seconds, not hours. And a lot of those things are on the OPs list.
I don't know if it's a good deal or not, but sure sound like retail plus. I'd much rather spend my boat dollar on skills that are really needed instead of changing oil, filters, etc., which is grunt work.
You can argue they aren't using their skills. However, the other argument is that it's time in which they could be using their skills and you're using the person.
I haven't run into this as we've always taken the boat to the mechanic, which actually costs more in fuel and time.
MichaelB1969
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2016
- Messages
- 679
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Speedy Charlotte
- Vessel Make
- Beneteau Swift Trawler 44
Irish Rambler
Guru
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2014
- Messages
- 1,733
- Location
- FRANCE
- Vessel Name
- 'Snow Mouse.'
- Vessel Make
- BROOM FLYBRIDGE 42.
Sorry to be a dissenting voice.
We ran Volvo trucks in our family business so I do have a lot of knowledge in this subject. At one stage we had a Volvo outboard, saloon car and 12 tractor units
Volvo DON'T MAKE filters, we personally used MANN filters who are recommended by Mercedes, BMW etc.
Volvo sell engines cheap to boat manufacturers because once you have a Volvo engine you won't change it so you are caught for spares and repairs.
Be wary with Volvo because in a boat they uprate their engines in comparison to the truck versions.
The TAMD 40 marine is the same guts/filters as an FL4 engine in a truck.
The TAMD 60 : : : : : FL 6 : : :
TAMD 70 D8 D10 etc.
So parts are cheaper at truck dealers.
In commercial service manuals Volvo warn about engines idling for long periods and running light loaded as they are prone to develop oil leaks around the block.
Once our Volvo trucks reached 500,000 miles we traded them in and bought Mercedes.
We ran Volvo trucks in our family business so I do have a lot of knowledge in this subject. At one stage we had a Volvo outboard, saloon car and 12 tractor units
Volvo DON'T MAKE filters, we personally used MANN filters who are recommended by Mercedes, BMW etc.
Volvo sell engines cheap to boat manufacturers because once you have a Volvo engine you won't change it so you are caught for spares and repairs.
Be wary with Volvo because in a boat they uprate their engines in comparison to the truck versions.
The TAMD 40 marine is the same guts/filters as an FL4 engine in a truck.
The TAMD 60 : : : : : FL 6 : : :
TAMD 70 D8 D10 etc.
So parts are cheaper at truck dealers.
In commercial service manuals Volvo warn about engines idling for long periods and running light loaded as they are prone to develop oil leaks around the block.
Once our Volvo trucks reached 500,000 miles we traded them in and bought Mercedes.
Last edited:
MichaelB1969
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2016
- Messages
- 679
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Speedy Charlotte
- Vessel Make
- Beneteau Swift Trawler 44
I know very little about Volvo engines, but I do know that the D4 specifically was designed from the start as a marine only engine. It is not a modified truck engine. Also, there is no warning about excessive idling in the D4 operator's manual.
The filters used for my service were Volvo branded. You are probably right that Volvo sources them from another provider, but they are sold under the Volvo brand.
I did talk extensively with local technicians about a number of engines and they all unanimously felt that the D4 was a very reliable engine. They had seen very few issues with them, and there are a lot of the D4's around.
Lastly, Beneteau sells a lot of boats. It is in their best interest to specify engines that are reliable. Otherwise, their customers will have a poor experience and their own brand will suffer. They are also not exclusively wed to Volvo, as they use other brands as well. For example, whereas the ST44 uses Volvos, the ST34 (and now ST35) uses Cummins. I am sure their engineers did plenty of due diligence with the D4 before specifying it in a fairly high volume boat sold around the globe.
Anyways, you may very well be right about Volvo in general, I have no idea. But again, the D4 is known to be a reliable engine.
Last edited:
Yes, what Irish Rambler experienced on trucks may not translate to your boat at all. One thing I see a lot of too is people speaking of engines they had, as in past tense. Then we never know how long ago. However, engines change and the experiences of today's models may be very different than past models. I've heard people go on and on about MAN's, which we have and find out they're talking long before common rail and the issues they had do not exist today. Similarly if someone just loves an old engine, that doesn't mean today's engines from the same manufacturer are the same.
BandB,
True, but driving in a car I could argue they are not producing any skills that require overhead, shop tools, computers, training, manuals, parts etc. So, why would it not be reasonable to pay their wage and benefits and a reasonable car fee for that part?
Thank you. What worries me is I have the service records on the boat I am about to buy and the one thing missing on the parts list is anodes for engines and genset. How often are folks generally changing these? Boat has been in the water less than two years. I hope there are no surprises when inspected.. engines were built in 2014, boat is a 2015, put in commission dec 2015 i believe. I heard Volvo may have started doing away with anodes but not sure.
Last edited:
Does any overhead go away while they're in the car? The facility is still operating. The training cost isn't refunded. Very few variable costs, most fixed, at least within reasonable limits. The biggest variable cost is that of operating the vehicle he drives to get to you.
If I have an employee who I can bill $100 an hour for, I'm not going to have him drive two hours at $30 or $50 an hour, unless I don't have enough business and really need the mobile business.
I've been friends with dealers who constantly got the complaint you make but they described things as I have. One specifically had no service charge for customers who had purchased from them and a reduced charge for regular customers who had not, but new customers paid full price. Their cost of providing mobile service was greater than their cost of shop service. They had top quality vehicles full equipped with tools and equipment.
BandB,
Well maybe so, but an employee will NEVER produce a full 8 hours of revenue, so some of the time is just overhead. Cleaning stuff, training, breaks, etc. Just part of the cost of doing business.
When I was in the service business, I was tickled to get 6 hours revenue from and 8 hour day. A few things I could charge top dollar for, special skills, hi tech machines, etc., but not always. I NEVER charged full labors rate for delivers, house calls. etc. It just ain't fair. But if I did that, I could hire extra people to stay in the shop and be productive. A mobile operation is MUCH CHEAPER than a dirt shop... no doubt about it, but probably lends itself to small operators who just operate from their truck with no shop.
I patronize that kind of operation. One of my guys starts the clock when he opens his tool box at the boat, and I like that. But he's not cheap, either.
But there's some operations that you just can't do out of a truck, so it does depend.
But the OPs stuff is all dirt simple truck stuff with minimal tools.
Well maybe so, but an employee will NEVER produce a full 8 hours of revenue, so some of the time is just overhead. Cleaning stuff, training, breaks, etc. Just part of the cost of doing business.
When I was in the service business, I was tickled to get 6 hours revenue from and 8 hour day. A few things I could charge top dollar for, special skills, hi tech machines, etc., but not always. I NEVER charged full labors rate for delivers, house calls. etc. It just ain't fair. But if I did that, I could hire extra people to stay in the shop and be productive. A mobile operation is MUCH CHEAPER than a dirt shop... no doubt about it, but probably lends itself to small operators who just operate from their truck with no shop.
I patronize that kind of operation. One of my guys starts the clock when he opens his tool box at the boat, and I like that. But he's not cheap, either.
But there's some operations that you just can't do out of a truck, so it does depend.
But the OPs stuff is all dirt simple truck stuff with minimal tools.
Fletcher500
Guru
Volvo mother ship supplied zincs may have a hollow core. They will last 6 months max, and even less in the summer. You can buy after market solid zincs and they will go longer, but changing them every 6 months is best practice.
Unless you plan on breaking in to the coolers to inspect as part of your mechanical inspection, you will not find out anyway, especially during a survey because the owner and Broker likely wont go for it, or sit there for several hours while the Tech pulls off end caps on the coolers. Actually, even if you could get the caps off and get a look, you can check the tube bundles and see what type of blockage/sludge there is, but the PO's lack of changing zincs for the past 2 years probably wont be visibly apparent anyway.
The after cooler is the most important one, but again, doubt you will find out much unless you get everyone to agree to specific checks up front, that are beyond the typical Mech survey.
Agree, this is all very important, but unfortunately many owners don't do it. Its hard enough to find used boats where people change the oil, much less their zincs and other stuff. If the boat is only in the water 2 years, I would not be overly concerned.
Some of the newer gensets don't have zincs. Not 100% sure, but what I have heard.
Disclaimer, this is a grey area, and you need to be comfortable with the situation, so the above is only my .02. Others on here may have very different opinions.
MichaelB1969
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2016
- Messages
- 679
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Speedy Charlotte
- Vessel Make
- Beneteau Swift Trawler 44
Yes they had their First Service Inspection at 20 hours and 100 hour service at 96. Since then only 20 hours have been put on. I looked through all the records and could not find anything indicating the engine or genset anodes were checked or replaced although apparently 16 hours were spent on the 100 hour service...which is absurd...
Last edited:
IRENE
Guru
That amount of attention is probably better service than 50% of boats see. I wonder what they were doing for 2 days on a 100-hour service?
Can you or the technician just pull the anodes and check them? It is super simple and you will know, like right now, what is going on...
If there are anodes remaining behind the plug, then I would assume they are continuing to do their job. If they are gone, then maybe you negotiate an allowance in the event something turns up. How does everything else look, mechanically? It seems that this is a very new unit.
Can you or the technician just pull the anodes and check them? It is super simple and you will know, like right now, what is going on...
If there are anodes remaining behind the plug, then I would assume they are continuing to do their job. If they are gone, then maybe you negotiate an allowance in the event something turns up. How does everything else look, mechanically? It seems that this is a very new unit.
Last edited:
Survey and inspection is this coming week. Yes, I will ask for the anodes to be pulled. I am worried that if they are found to be non-existent that internal damage could've been done. If there are pieces broken off, where would they end up? The genset had to get a new impeller a couple months ago. Is it possible the anode in the genset broke off and damaged the impeller or is it located after the impeller? Boat is just shy of two years old.
IRENE
Guru
Regarding the potential for pieces in your genset - I don't know.
I believe our engine anodes (heat exchanger/charge air cooler) are downstream of the impeller, so not a concern there.
When I discovered one of my anodes wasted farther than I was expecting, it was essentially deteriorating in place. I think most of the loose particles came out in my hand with the plug/anode and the draining water. I mentioned this to my technician and he stated any remaining pieces would dissipate inside.
Good luck this week, and please post any potentially useful information.
I believe our engine anodes (heat exchanger/charge air cooler) are downstream of the impeller, so not a concern there.
When I discovered one of my anodes wasted farther than I was expecting, it was essentially deteriorating in place. I think most of the loose particles came out in my hand with the plug/anode and the draining water. I mentioned this to my technician and he stated any remaining pieces would dissipate inside.
Good luck this week, and please post any potentially useful information.
