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Old 02-08-2017, 04:09 PM   #21
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I would have to question why you are considering a pad heater when a block heater that goes in the engine water jacket is more efficient and much cheaper. Our previous boat had a Cummins 6BT with a factory installed block heater (which I never used). Automotive parts stores sell these things for about $30. You need to know just where on an engine to install one, but a Cummins dealer should be able to tell you.

In a previous life I flew a small plane up north, and it had a pad heater because it was an air cooled engine. But it was very expensive, and the oil pan had to be super clean or it wouldn't stick. All of our vehicles and machinery with liquid cooled engines had water jacket block heaters.
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:10 PM   #22
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Wolverine heater

I have a 600w lower rad hose heater in my diesel Land Cruiser. Works great. Rarely use it because of the moderate climate where I live. Also have battery heater blankets on both batteries; it's 24v. The guy who prepped it was from Whitehorse.

On my boat, I tried a magnetic oil pan heater and it didn't work long. Don't remember the wattage.

I have a 250w Canadian Polar stick on pad heater on my boat engine. It is a 10.5l (2.8gal) pan. Might leave it on longer based on Tony Athens advice on the 6BTA thread. Although a 6BTA has about a liter more oil and considerably (twice?) more mass, so I'll see.

I also have a Caframo Pali heater in my ER, but I rarely use it.

I didn't remove all of paint either, if I recall correctly, just Brakleen.

Block heaters don't warm the oil in the pan. And a bit of a liability IMHO. If you ever had one leak or blow out on you, you would understand.
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:46 PM   #23
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I would have to question why you are considering a pad heater when a block heater that goes in the engine water jacket is more efficient and much cheaper. Our previous boat had a Cummins 6BT with a factory installed block heater (which I never used). Automotive parts stores sell these things for about $30. You need to know just where on an engine to install one, but a Cummins dealer should be able to tell you.

I love this!

The pad heater I have coming cost around $80. A block heater would be $30. $50 savings. I think it is hilarious that we can own boats that in some cases cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars yet we worry about 50 bucks. I do the same all the time. I lament about spending a few bucks on little items yet am about to lay out 5 grand on a dinghy!
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:47 PM   #24
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I will report back on how the install goes and what it does to the temp of the engine. The heater should arrive this week and I will try and do the install this weekend.
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:57 PM   #25
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I wrote previously that I used a thermocube to cycle my heater on and off. I then edited that out, because I did for a month or two when I first installed it, then I realized I could cause what I was trying to prevent, and removed it. The whole idea of this heater (for me) is to keep the dew point temperature of the engine higher than the ambient air. This way there is no internal condensation.

So consider the use of a timer or a thermostat in this context.
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Old 02-08-2017, 05:02 PM   #26
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I've a Wolverine Model 25 that I got from sbmar. Sanded off the paint before I glued it down. You can touch it when it's on but it's definitely hot. Top of the engine feels slightly warm to the touch. Big chunk of cast iron radiates heat into the compartment. Easy, passive way to keep engine and compartment warm.
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Old 02-08-2017, 05:53 PM   #27
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I love this!

The pad heater I have coming cost around $80. A block heater would be $30. $50 savings. I think it is hilarious that we can own boats that in some cases cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars yet we worry about 50 bucks. I do the same all the time. I lament about spending a few bucks on little items yet am about to lay out 5 grand on a dinghy!
"Aye laddie, look after the pence and the pounds will look after themselves."
(With no disrespect, this needs to be spoken with a Yorkshire, or a Scottish, accent).
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Old 02-08-2017, 06:07 PM   #28
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I would have to question why you are considering a pad heater when a block heater that goes in the engine water jacket is more efficient and much cheaper. Our previous boat had a Cummins 6BT with a factory installed block heater (which I never used). Automotive parts stores sell these things for about $30. You need to know just where on an engine to install one, but a Cummins dealer should be able to tell you....
I believe these pads are $85, so not that different in the grand scheme of things. Plus, Tony Athens recommends them. Finally, While I think I could install a pad, I wouldn't trust my abilities at installing a block heater.

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Old 02-08-2017, 06:52 PM   #29
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I wrote previously that I used a thermocube to cycle my heater on and off. I then edited that out, because I did for a month or two when I first installed it, then I realized I could cause what I was trying to prevent, and removed it. The whole idea of this heater (for me) is to keep the dew point temperature of the engine higher than the ambient air. This way there is no internal condensation.

So consider the use of a timer or a thermostat in this context.
I was wondering about your use of the thermocube. My thought is the same as yours, keep the engine above ambient at all times.
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:28 PM   #30
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"Aye laddie, look after the pence and the pounds will look after themselves."
(With no disrespect, this needs to be spoken with a Yorkshire, or a Scottish, accent).
Much like "Penny wise, pound foolish"

Being a Yank, I tend to think in terms of..

"A penny saved is a penny earned."
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:19 PM   #31
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Dhays, have you considered immersion block heaters or are you locked in on oil pan pad heaters? I've used Kim Hotstart immersion heaters with both my current 6bt Cummins and also 2-cycle Detroits. I'm pretty sure your QSBs have a pipe plug like mine on the stbd side of the block that will take the heating element. I run mine on timers, running 2 hours on and off when it's cold. The engine room stays about 20 degrees above ambient and the engines are warm to the touch. Gets rid of moisture downstairs too. I think they're 1000 watts each. I'll send you a picture of the installation if you'd like one.
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Old 02-08-2017, 11:53 PM   #32
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Dhays, have you considered immersion block heaters or are you locked in on oil pan pad heaters? I've used Kim Hotstart immersion heaters with both my current 6bt Cummins and also 2-cycle Detroits. I'm pretty sure your QSBs have a pipe plug like mine on the stbd side of the block that will take the heating element. I run mine on timers, running 2 hours on and off when it's cold. The engine room stays about 20 degrees above ambient and the engines are warm to the touch. Gets rid of moisture downstairs too. I think they're 1000 watts each. I'll send you a picture of the installation if you'd like one.

I have considered it. My first concern is that they are normally a much higher wattage. The nice thing about a pan heater is that they are quite low power and are heating the engine at the bottom, which means the heat will tend to rise (very simplistic thinking on my part).
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Old 02-09-2017, 05:40 AM   #33
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Pan heater will heat the oil (if its above the heater) and yes heat will rise but an oil pan heater won't warm your engine, not enough power. Heat radiates away from the engine as fast as you are adding it at the bottom so no practical temp rise.
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Old 02-09-2017, 07:47 AM   #34
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In taking down an oil pan many of the magnetic heaters will show carbon deposits from burning the oil.

Heating the coolant is far far a better system.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:16 AM   #35
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In taking down an oil pan many of the magnetic heaters will show carbon deposits from burning the oil.

Heating the coolant is far far a better system.

We will see how it goes. I know Tony Athens has been recommending pan heaters over the coolant heaters for a few years now.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:21 AM   #36
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I got the pan heater installed today. The process is simple but it was very difficult. I imagine my boat is similar to many. The bottom of the oil pan is about 6" from the bottom of the oil drip pan. The bottom is also about 5" below the two steel structural pieces that run lengthwise on either side of the engine. So to sand off the paint on the bottom of the pan was a bit of a pain. It entailed laying between the engine and the water tanks and reach one arm down and wiggling my fingers with the sand paper. It was painful.

Eventually, I got the paint off (three layers) down to bare metal. I was able to get the pad heaters stuck in position (again one handed). Then seal the edge with high temp silicone.

Then the relatively easy task of running an extension cord near the engine so I can plug it in. Finally, trying to reprint the metal next to the heating pads.

All in all it took about 10 hours of very painful work to complete a job that I thought would take about 30 minutes. Tomorrow I will go back and check the temps.
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:02 AM   #37
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Should the bilge fill will the heating pads need replacement?

Stuff happens,,,
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:13 AM   #38
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Pan heater will heat the oil (if its above the heater) and yes heat will rise but an oil pan heater won't warm your engine, not enough power. Heat radiates away from the engine as fast as you are adding it at the bottom so no practical temp rise.
This was my experience and general thought.

I would be interested in knowing just where all the heat from 250w or whatever really goes.

Maybe someone with the new IR tech can take a picture with some engine room temp info to see what is what.
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:29 AM   #39
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I had the coolant heater installed in the repower I did on my Mainship. Power was no problem as it was included in the slip fee.
However it made the engine too hot. I only used it a few times and then only to help warm the boat on a cool weekend.
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:30 AM   #40
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Should the bilge fill will the heating pads need replacement?

Stuff happens,,,
I would be concerned that the oil pan would get rusty after you sanded off the paint should you have a "water event".
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