Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-11-2014, 07:08 AM   #1
Member
 
City: Holden,MA
Vessel Name: Diane Louise
Vessel Model: Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 5
Replace Engine for Sundowner Tug

I have a 1983 Sundowner Tug (30') with a pathfinder diesel 85hp engine. I would like to replace it with a 4-cylinder Yanmar 110hp engine.

Has anyone replaced their engine in a Sundowner and if so, any suggestions.
Thanks.
Paul Lindgren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 09:23 AM   #2
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
Hi there, and welcome aboard

The previous owner of our 30' Sundowner Tug, Badger, put in a 100hp Yanmar 4JH2-UTE. It was mounted pretty tight against the forward bulkhead, making the addition of engine driven add-ons (serpentine pulleys or a second alternator, etc) problematic, so I'd advize leaving some wiggle room forward (keeping the boats centre of balance in mind) in case you might want to do that. Also, a bigger engine means less room altogether.

Our most fuel efficient cruising speed is pretty low in rpm...about 2600, or just past where the turbo kicks in. I'm no deisel mechanic (bottom end of the learning curve on that one!) so don't know the long term effects of running the engine that way, but so far it purrs right along as happy as can be. In our first year (about 9 months of boating) we averaged 1.5 gallons per hour.

If I was to repower, I'd consider going back to a smaller engine. While there might be times when all that extra brute power might be handy, dragging the extra weight and burning the extra fuel all the time doesn't seem worth it...then again...I haven't been in a situation where that extra power saved the day either, in which case it would have been worth it after all!

Keep dropping in here...there's lots of good information from others waaaaay more experienced than I, and don't forget to try the advanced search function.

Murray
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 09:45 AM   #3
Valued Technical Contributor
 
DavidM's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,785
I think I would opt for the 75 hp Yanmar. It should have plenty of power for a 30' and the lack of an aftercooler is a plus.

David
DavidM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 10:18 AM   #4
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
The base JH engine (55hp) should do fine unless you want more speed. That engine has a great reputation. My fovorite engine is Isuzu and they have a comparable 54hp engine for probably considerably less money. Yanmars are a fairly loud direct injected engine. The upside of that is no glow plugs are needed. I do like my Mitsubishi w pre-combustion chambers and glow plugs.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 10:41 AM   #5
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
I think I would opt for the 75 hp Yanmar. It should have plenty of power for a 30' and the lack of an aftercooler is a plus.

David
for engine

Also remember there is a new gear reducer and old prop and drive line (the fore and aft Murray was alluding to) that enters into switch out. This may be a good time to consider a fuel tank replacement if having the engine out gives you access you otherwise may not have.
sunchaser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 11:13 AM   #6
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
Second David on avoiding an engine with sea water aftercooler. And get a hydraulic reduction gear. Some Yanmars come with mechanical gears (not sure on the 4JH). Those mech gears are obnoxious.

And while the JH is direct injected, noise is tolerable. A bit easier on fuel too. I like the sound of a DI engine better, even if there is a bit more of it!!
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 12:45 PM   #7
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
It will fit. the boat next to me is a Sundowner 30 he replaced a VW diesel with a Yanmar JH. It is pretty tight.

SD
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 12:59 PM   #8
Guru
 
Tad Roberts's Avatar
 
City: Flattop Islands
Vessel Name: Blackfish
Vessel Model: custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 724
I would avoid the high RPM (3600-4000) Yanmar and look seriously at the Beta (Kubota) 60 or 75. These engines put out the rated power at 26-2700 RPM, much closer to the speed you actually use them at. I think it might be (used to be) less money than the Yanmar.

betamarine - Engine View
Tad Roberts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 01:21 PM   #9
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Roberts View Post
I would avoid the high RPM (3600-4000) Yanmar and look seriously at the Beta (Kubota) 60 or 75. These engines put out the rated power at 26-2700 RPM, much closer to the speed you actually use them at. I think it might be (used to be) less money than the Yanmar. betamarine - Engine View
Yep! I noticed that with our wing engine, it's WAY louder then the main and twice the RPM, also runs very rough.
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 01:28 PM   #10
Guru
 
Brooksie's Avatar
 
City: Cape Cod, MA
Vessel Name: Island Seeker
Vessel Model: Willard 36 Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,306
I've done some looking in the 50 hp range and Beta and We$terbeke would be near the top of my list.
Check out this site:
Repowering Tortuga - Choosing a new Engine
Brooksie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 03:22 PM   #11
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Gibsons, B.C., Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,414
Question,
Why do you want to replace it?
Is it simply to repower because the current engine is giving trouble or you are having trouble obtaining repair parts?
OR
Do you want more speed?
It makes a difference.
Hull speed, so called, is about 6-6.5 knots and your current HP is plenty for that.
If you want to get up to about 8 knots you will be pushing the hull without getting on plane and the hp requirements and fuel will jump a lot.

These boats will plane with enough power but to get it will likely crowd the engine compartment big time.
With 85 hp I'm guessing you have a 4 cyl. Lehman or Perkins.
Be very carefull with measurments. That eng. compartment is tight and you could create a problem if the engine contemplated is much larger than what you have now.
C lectric is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 07:46 PM   #12
Guru
 
Anode's Avatar
 
City: Missourah
Vessel Name: M/V Scout
Vessel Model: Sundowner Tug 30'
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 645
I have a Kubota Beta in my Sundowner. It replaced a Pathfinder.
I'm very pleased.
PM me if you want more info or pictures.
__________________
Chip

Deliveries & Yacht Services
www.captainchip.com
Anode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 08:04 PM   #13
Moderator Emeritus
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Roberts View Post
I would avoid the high RPM (3600-4000) Yanmar
Excellent advice!

Its amazing how many people will tout a 1800 RPM generator over a 3600 RPM engine, then turn right around and recommend a high RPM unit as the main engine.

I would recommend a engine that developes the HP needed for hull speed operation at a RPM rating that is lower. Actually the lower the better (within reason) with the only real issue being size constraints.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788 Dos Peces
Seward, Alaska - La Paz, Baja California Sur
https://maps.findmespot.com/s/XLJZ#history/assets
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 10:03 PM   #14
Guru
 
tpbrady's Avatar
 
City: Gooding ID/Wrangell AK
Vessel Name: Silver Bay
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42-002
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,040
A couple of years ago I looked at various re-powering options and decided the best option at that time was the John Deere 4045D. It developed the full rated HP at 2600 RPM and could matched up with NMEA 2000 gauges giving more options at the helm and for monitoring.

Tom
tpbrady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 12:00 AM   #15
Guru
 
LarryM's Avatar
 
City: League City, TX
Vessel Name: Pelago
Vessel Model: Wellcraft 3300 Coastal
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Roberts View Post
I would avoid the high RPM (3600-4000) Yanmar and look seriously at the Beta (Kubota) 60 or 75. These engines put out the rated power at 26-2700 RPM, much closer to the speed you actually use them at. I think it might be (used to be) less money than the Yanmar.

betamarine - Engine View
Yanmar has been gradually reducing the rated RPM of the JH Series engines. My 4JH3E (2001) is rated at 3,800 RPM and can sound pretty busy at the recommended 85% power - 2,900 RPM.

The latest 4JH5E (N/A Common Rail) engines are rated at 3,000 RPM and the 4JH4-TE (Turbo DI) at 3,200 RPM. At around 2,500 RPM or less they might be more reasonable shipmates. They are also available with either Kanzaki or ZF hydraulic transmissions which are smooth and quiet. They do remain somewhat pricy though.

Good luck in your search.

Larry
m/v Boomarang
LarryM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 01:49 AM   #16
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
Why the need for more horsepower? I'm not aware your boat is suitable for planing speeds. Seems like wasted effort and expense to overpower that boat. Perhaps you have the wrong boat.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 01:54 AM   #17
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpbrady View Post
A couple of years ago I looked at various re-powering options and decided the best option at that time was the John Deere 4045D. It developed the full rated HP at 2600 RPM and could matched up with NMEA 2000 gauges giving more options at the helm and for monitoring.

Tom
My 2010 JD 4045D is only rated for a maximum 2400 RPM to produce its maximum 80 horsepower. It's happiest at 1800 RPM. (Low RPM engines are gooood.)
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 05:51 AM   #18
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
In our first year (about 9 months of boating) we averaged 1.5 gallons per hour.

This would AT BEST be perhaps 30HP.

I would look for an engine with NO turbo of about 50 HP.

If the tranny is in good shape you might be able to machine an adapter to continue its use.

If you need to purchase a tranny go 2 sizes larger if you buy a Hirth .

The old Perkins 4-107 or similar would seem ideal , as they dont mind low power operation , lorry engine.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:43 AM   #19
Veteran Member
 
City: thisted
Vessel Name: Elviva
Vessel Model: trawl/tug Ejvind 25
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Roberts View Post
I would avoid the high RPM (3600-4000) Yanmar and look seriously at the Beta (Kubota) 60 or 75. These engines put out the rated power at 26-2700 RPM, much closer to the speed you actually use them at. I think it might be (used to be) less money than the Yanmar.

betamarine - Engine View
Like Tad Robert said, I fully agree. The Beta 75 HP. 3.3 litre, I like to add: Paired with at Deep red.ratio i.e. 3:1, from a PRM. hydraulic or a ZF gear, will give a efficient push for the Sundowner 30 TUG.-and low noise, comfortable running, at pleasant 1800/1900 rpm.
_ do not only look at HP.but more for a real TORQ, to swing a big propeller.
Trawler/Tugs want/need that kind of propulsion...!

The US.Beta people (by Stanley), gives good proffesional help.
gadenors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 10:25 AM   #20
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
We're all talking about how much power WE"D put in the Sundowner Tug (ST). And the OP has'nt said anything about how fadt he wants to go. Just that he's thinking about 110hp.

The ST leans on the planing side of SD so he could easily use 110hp or even more. And he will eventually sell the boat. Buyers will expect a reasonable amount of power. Reasonable being what THEY THE BUYER think is reasonable or proper. That's why manufacturers over power SD and even FD boats. I voted for 55hp. Exactly half of what the OP said he was thinking about. One would need to run the ST at 10 knots to use the 110hp engine w/o underloading it. The ST is the wrong boat to power as a FD boat but if the owner wants ... But he will/likely may suffer when he sells it.

So on second thought he should probably go w 100hp or so and chose an engine least likely to suffer from underloading depending on what he thinks about underloading.

But if he wants to limit his speed to FD he should get a FD boat like Mark has already said.

So I think we need to hear from the owner. He has not posted a second post. Find out what he knows about hulls and speed. And the underloading question. And if he cares.

Anode,
How do you usually run your boat? And w how much power?
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sundowner tug

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012