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Old 02-06-2020, 05:57 PM   #1
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Westerbeke 100 Head bolt

The long head bolts for the Westerbeke W100 are no longer available. This is Westerbeke part #024372. It's Mazda ZB part #10137.

I took this to a local Bolt store and it fit a 14mm - 1.50 nut. I ordered a thread cleaner from McMaster-Carr and it did not fit.

Anyone have any specs on the threads on this head bolt?

I tried Westerbeke and they couldn't help me. I'm putting the head back on next week and would like to be able to have some back-up info in case I have to make a new bolt.
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Old 02-06-2020, 10:50 PM   #2
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Get a 14x 1.50 bolt and see if it threads easily into the block holes. Thread chasers can be a little fat for head bolt holes, not surprised it did not want to go. If a new bolt threads in well, get a class 12.9 and it should work.
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Old 02-07-2020, 02:51 AM   #3
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They look to be available, just not home depot cheap:

-- https://discountmarinesource.com/sto...scription=true
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Old 02-07-2020, 01:47 PM   #4
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Thanks Sky,

Here is a photo of my head bolt fitting into the 14mmx1.50 hole.

I'll try a new bolt to see if it fits in the block.

I bought a new tap to clean out the holes in the block. (as I mentioned, Tap would not go down hole in block - did not try forcing it.)

I shot a light down the holes and they are full of crud.

Absent my ability to use a tap, is there a way to get the crap out of the bolt holes in the block? (Tried compressed air - still gunky)

Gkesden- I did try Discount Marine just now. They are out of my Westerbeke service area, but the order was not rejected. Let's see.
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Old 02-07-2020, 03:40 PM   #5
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bsent my ability to use a tap, is there a way to get the crap out of the bolt holes in the block? (Tried compressed air - still gunky)
How about a gun bore brush? Something like 38 special/9mm? Then vacuum after or during if you can to suck the loosened crud.
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Old 02-07-2020, 03:47 PM   #6
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To clean bolt holes I run a bottle or rifle brush in the hole soaked with diesel or some other solvent. Then suck out with a tube on a shop vac (I have a nasty vac just for this). Or blow out with comp air (but then crap goes all over). Repeat as necessary. Next, wire wheel the bolts lightly, then run each down in a hole with diesel or solvent present. Hand spin bolt up and down til it feels smooth. Make sure bolt head goes down smoothly below it would be when holding the cyl head down.

I generally do not use a tap or a thread chaser as there are many many variations in size for a given dia and pitch and we don't know what the factory used.
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Old 02-07-2020, 04:19 PM   #7
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I have good luck cleaning threads with dental pics.
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Old 02-07-2020, 05:06 PM   #8
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A tap or die will try to re-cut the threads and weaken the ability of the fastener to hold. A thread chaser would be better to use. They don't cut. They push the debris into little channels and either push it out the top of the hole as the chaser goes down or collect and hold it.


https://www.amazon.com/metric-thread...language=en_US
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkesden View Post
They look to be available, just not home depot cheap:

-- https://discountmarinesource.com/sto...scription=true


Gdesken, on the replacement bolt from Westerbeke, Discount Marine says “no longer available”
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:30 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
Get a 14x 1.50 bolt and see if it threads easily into the block holes. Thread chasers can be a little fat for head bolt holes, not surprised it did not want to go. If a new bolt threads in well, get a class 12.9 and it should work.


Ski,

I have better luck/choices with class 10.9. Is that the same as grade 8? (For some reason I think grade 8 is good for head bolts).

Thanks for previous replies.
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Old 02-08-2020, 12:19 PM   #11
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10.9 is similar to SAE grade 8 in material strength. But we don't know what the original head bolt strength is. 12.9 is higher strength than 10.9.

Any markings on the original head bolts?

Why are you replacing them? Stretched? Corroded?
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:41 PM   #12
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No markings on bolts

Some of the short ones are a little corroded

The long ones (no longer available) look pretty good.

Just trying to get a source as I don't want to have to replace an engine because I snapped a head bolt.

Got the gun cleaner kit. Also went to friend Bobby and sized the bolt in his $10 plastic bolt sizing thingy.

1/2NF 20, 5-27/32". Go figure. SAE in a Mazda truck block. Forget your lying eyes and post #4. No wonder I couldn't use the 14mm tap.

Just have to figure the right grade and I can locate some in case I have to and cut them down to size.

Making a rig to vac out bottom of hole.

Even the short ones cost 26 bucks. And they are back ordered.
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Old 02-08-2020, 08:33 PM   #13
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An "aerosol" type can of compressed air used in cleaning computer keyboards might help if you don`t have an air compressor handy. They come with a tiny extension tube, like on WD40 cans.
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Old 02-09-2020, 01:30 AM   #14
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Ouch. Looks like they found a ghost listing. They showed available when I looked, then y'all saw them unavailable, now I look -- and the whole catalog page is gone.

I'll look around some more on Monday. A bolt,shouldnt be disco'd!
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Old 02-09-2020, 07:59 AM   #15
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I'll look around some more on Monday. A bolt,shouldnt be disco'd!
If they changed the part number it would appear discontinued.
I've run into this in the past.
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Old 02-09-2020, 08:42 AM   #16
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Westerbeke 100 Head bolt

This bolt is discontinued. It shows up in the online catalogs, but when you order it, you are notified several days later that it is “no longer available.” Someone might have some old stock around. No way to tell without an order or phone call though. Remember, that although the head gasket sets, and rebuild kits, are still available for this engine, the head bold is a seldom fail item. So why carry it 30+ years the engine stopped being manufactured.

I have no problem with the Aftermarket folks on this, just needed to figure out the work around. (I was in a machine shop last year and saw an old Simplex being rebuilt. Getting parts for the Westerbeke seems easy compared to the Simplex parts.)

The funny thing on this engine was the studs holding the intake manifold and water tube.

They are 5/16NF at both ends. Try finding those. I ended up buying some grade 8 bolts and cutting off the heads.
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:17 AM   #17
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So a couple of things. Between the gun brush, the tap, some Tapmatic #1 Gold Cutting Fluid, the modified vac head, and lots of shop towels I was able to turn in by hand a bolt into all the holes in the block.

As we discussed the long bolts are no longer available. I was told that the short bolts were not available until the end of March.

Time to find an alternative. I took a picture of the bolt head. No markings.
Looking at the long bolt, it seems I can buy a 1/2x20 6" Grade 8 at McMaster-Carr and just cut off 1/8".

Anyone foresee a problem with that strategy?

John
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:55 AM   #18
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The unthreaded part (shank) may not allow the bolt to go all the way into the hole. If it's forced in, it could strip the bolt hole threads.
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Old 02-10-2020, 01:14 PM   #19
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You might try calling ARP and see if they have some head studs that would work. I think they can put together a custom kit for you if they have something in their inventory that will physically fit, assuming you can use a stud in place of the bolt. With overall length, thread spec, and threaded length you should be able to ask them what they can do.

https://arp-bolts.com/
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Old 02-10-2020, 01:28 PM   #20
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ARP is a good call. I've used their head bolts on several motors. Even in stainless, their psi is something close to 180k lb/sqin. IMMSC.
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