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Old 06-30-2017, 10:28 PM   #101
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They are going to check to see if I can get into Gig Harbor Boatyard. It is close so it makes for an easy tow and is convenient. They are super busy however. Hopefully I will find out on Monday.
Something tells me Cummins may have a little more influence with them than the average boater and I predict you'll get in.

I applaud any company that stands behind their work when bed situations develop. Still doesn't mean though I'd want the same mechanics next time.

The thought of them claiming it on their insurance was mentioned. I doubt that at this dollar level they do, recognizing we're talking the dollars it costs them, not retail dollars. At their size I suspect their deductible exceeds this.

That presents a concern as an employee, knowing that your mistake isn't covered but is money out of your employer's pocket and wondering how that might impact your future.
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Old 07-01-2017, 09:47 AM   #102
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Something tells me Cummins may have a little more influence with them than the average boater and I predict you'll get in.

I applaud any company that stands behind their work when bed situations develop. Still doesn't mean though I'd want the same mechanics next time.

The thought of them claiming it on their insurance was mentioned. I doubt that at this dollar level they do, recognizing we're talking the dollars it costs them, not retail dollars. At their size I suspect their deductible exceeds this.

That presents a concern as an employee, knowing that your mistake isn't covered but is money out of your employer's pocket and wondering how that might impact your future.
From the employee perspective. I think that only applies to the small Mom & Pop places. Like my previous marina.

If I fired every employee that made a mistake (every mistake costs something) I would be constantly hiring staff.
I suspect the mechanic in question will still be employed when this is all said and done.
Unless he has an ongoing issue with mistakes.
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Old 07-01-2017, 09:55 AM   #103
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Something tells me Cummins may have a little more influence with them than the average boater and I predict you'll get in.

I applaud any company that stands behind their work when bed situations develop. Still doesn't mean though I'd want the same mechanics next time.

The thought of them claiming it on their insurance was mentioned. I doubt that at this dollar level they do, recognizing we're talking the dollars it costs them, not retail dollars. At their size I suspect their deductible exceeds this.

That presents a concern as an employee, knowing that your mistake isn't covered but is money out of your employer's pocket and wondering how that might impact your future.
Interesting, when I insured our business I added a policy that would cover customers vehicles from damage of almost any kind. I believe it was an optional part of the "Garagekeepers Liability" package. The basic insurance was extremely expensive but this part was a small additional percentage so we carried it.
It may have been specific to the automotive world...but it was nice to have!
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Old 07-03-2017, 06:44 PM   #104
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Update

I just got a call from the Cummins NW service manager. He has scheduled my boat to be hauled for the engine replacement on July 17th and scheduled 5 days of yard time. He thought it would only take 3 days, but scheduled 5 days to be conservative. He is also scheduling the tow service to the move the boat.

I spoke to the yard and will have them do a couple of small things to the boat while it is pulled. I'll also change all the zincs while the boat is out of the water. They won't need it, but it is cheaper for me to replace them early on the hard than have a diver replace them in 3 to 6 months.

I also mentioned that I had put the oil pan heater on the engine. He asked me to let him know where I got it and he would get one ordered and put it on before the engine is dropped in.
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Old 07-03-2017, 06:53 PM   #105
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Dave, what are the ramification of the engine swap in terms of flooring/walls, cabinetry, all that kind of thing? With many boats, an entire engine replacement is not contemplated.
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Old 07-03-2017, 07:31 PM   #106
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Sounds like they are doing right by you Dave. Lets hope it isn't too big of a deal to get it out and in as JustBob says.
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Old 07-03-2017, 07:49 PM   #107
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Dave, what are the ramification of the engine swap in terms of flooring/walls, cabinetry, all that kind of thing? With many boats, an entire engine replacement is not contemplated.

I really don't know. I asked the mechanic about it and he said that it wouldn't be an issue. I have emailed the North Pacific Yachts owner and he said he would give me a call back as soon as he had cell service.

The saloon has a series of hatches down the center right over the engine. There may be one cabinet that has to be moved, but I hope not.

There is certainly a chance of incidental damage when they pull the engine or put in the new one. I am really hoping there isn't.
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Old 07-03-2017, 07:59 PM   #108
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Dave, what are the ramification of the engine swap in terms of flooring/walls, cabinetry, all that kind of thing? With many boats, an entire engine replacement is not contemplated.
That brings back memories. To pull my Cummins required disassembling part of the gallery, removing the saloon floor, pulling the generator, and then partially disassembling the motor to get it through the door. Know I couldn't have done a straight swap and reassembled everything in 5 days.

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Old 07-03-2017, 09:04 PM   #109
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Hi Dave

I am so very very happy to hear your continuing success for complete motor replacement! Keep On, Keeping On!


Cheers!

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Old 07-04-2017, 01:08 AM   #110
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That brings back memories. To pull my Cummins required disassembling part of the gallery, removing the saloon floor, pulling the generator, and then partially disassembling the motor to get it through the door. Know I couldn't have done a straight swap and reassembled everything in 5 days.



Ted

That would be a project Ted. As near as I can tell, the mechanics will strip the engine of the peripherals in place. Then it appears that the engine can be lifted up and then out the rear door. I'm not sure how they are going to do that. It is a long reach from the back of the swim step into the saloon.
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Old 07-04-2017, 06:56 AM   #111
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...There is certainly a chance of incidental damage when they pull the engine or put in the new one. I am really hoping there isn't.
Dave: These guys should be pros and vessel protection should be part of the engine swap. When we pulled the engine on Hobo, we used miles of cardboard, sheets of plywood plus a few rolls of plastic and probably 10 rolls of blue tape. The floors had 2 layers of cardboard and came out unscathed. It took Lena and I 2 days just for the vessel protect. I would assume CNW will doing similar. Good luck. I sounds like it's coming together pretty seamlessly.
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Old 07-05-2017, 05:47 AM   #112
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"That brings back memories. To pull my Cummins required disassembling part of the gallery, removing the saloon floor, pulling the generator, and then partially disassembling the motor to get it through the door."

Did later you visit the boats designer to tar and feather him?

If not , why not?

An engine change is part of a boats design service.
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Old 07-05-2017, 07:08 AM   #113
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I really don't know. I asked the mechanic about it and he said that it wouldn't be an issue. I have emailed the North Pacific Yachts owner and he said he would give me a call back as soon as he had cell service.

The saloon has a series of hatches down the center right over the engine. There may be one cabinet that has to be moved, but I hope not.

There is certainly a chance of incidental damage when they pull the engine or put in the new one. I am really hoping there isn't.
Dave, I realise they are trying to do the right thing by you, because of their mistake, but I can't shake the feeling it is all overkill. Surely a decent diesel mechanic can check out and diagnose whether something has damaged the engine or not..? After all, you switched off immediately the low oil pressure buzzer went off, and it would have taken some time for the oil dilution from diesel to thin the oil very much. Ok, you'll get a newly reconditioned engine, but at what cost in terms of potential collateral damage, and boating down time.

Could you and your lawyer not just negotiate a letter confirming that if engine issues developed within a certain agreed prescribed time, they would replace. Otherwise, it might be all a storm in a teacup, and with fuel system fixed, you might be good to go..?
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Old 07-05-2017, 07:30 AM   #114
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"That brings back memories. To pull my Cummins required disassembling part of the gallery, removing the saloon floor, pulling the generator, and then partially disassembling the motor to get it through the door."

Did later you visit the boats designer to tar and feather him?

If not , why not?

An engine change is part of a boats design service.
No, but it was all disassembly and reassembly. Didn't have to cut any holes in the hull or the saloon roof. I considered it reasonable but time consuming. I'm guessing it would have taken me 50 hours to swap the motor. An experienced yard might be able to do it in 25 hours. At $100 dollars an hour that might be 15 to 20% of the cost to replace the motor.

The boat is recreational not commercial. With average use and a good preventative maintenance schedule, it's realistic for that engine to be in the boat for 25 years. Now on my charter boat I can remove and replace in less than 8 hours. Different application and likely to be pulled after less than 10 years based on hours.

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Old 07-05-2017, 07:52 AM   #115
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That would be a project Ted. As near as I can tell, the mechanics will strip the engine of the peripherals in place. Then it appears that the engine can be lifted up and then out the rear door. I'm not sure how they are going to do that. It is a long reach from the back of the swim step into the saloon.
Boom truck, maybe. I've seen them do that here several times, usually with the boat in the water. They put the boat stern-to in one of the bulkhead slips up by the work yard, back the boom truck up to it, extend the boom into the saloon or wherever, E Voila!

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Old 07-05-2017, 10:33 AM   #116
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Dave:

Once again I have been away from good wifi for a while, just catching up.
I have actually been there, done that, re your imminent engine replacement.

First, unless your new engine comes with a sump that has no drain, get them to put a drain hose on the bottom so you can attach a vacuum pump to it at oil change time. When I swapped engines in 2000, I did so, and have thanked the guy who suggested doing so at every oil change.

Second, physically getting the engine out of your boat should be a piece of cake for the guy with a HIAB on his truck, especially if access is through your cockpit doors. Mine was through the side door, at 27" wide, and over the rail, so limiting both width and height. Taking the HEs and alternators off gave me 1/8" total side clearance, just enough so I could put a piece of cardboard alongside and protect the varnish. The swing of the boom was limited on the Port side, so the engine/transmission was too long to swing it up through the hole in the floor as a single unit, so taking the trans off down in the ER was necessary on that one, though not of the Stb engine. In your case the boom extension will allow swinging up out of the hole, as a single unit, saving time.

Third, I couldn't get the yard time when I needed it, so rather than wait 6 weeks for the yard time, I did the two engine swaps myself. Not being a mechanic, I likely took twice as long as your guys will take, but I was running again within 2 days of motoring up to the travel lift. That is 2 engines, I had my 17 yr old son help me for part of a day, and a curious bystander from an adjacent boat on the lot helped with the heavy work of sliding the Stb trans onto the back of the engine, down in the hole. So your 3 day estimate should turn out to be overly generous.

Yes, make sure your plan B to holiday on your sailboat is in place, but know that your NP 43 has every chance of being ready in time.

Good luck and again, good on you for your unruffled attitude. That is over half the battle.
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Old 07-05-2017, 01:29 PM   #117
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Dave, I realise they are trying to do the right thing by you, because of their mistake, but I can't shake the feeling it is all overkill. Surely a decent diesel mechanic can check out and diagnose whether something has damaged the engine or not..? After all, you switched off immediately the low oil pressure buzzer went off, and it would have taken some time for the oil dilution from diesel to thin the oil very much. Ok, you'll get a newly reconditioned engine, but at what cost in terms of potential collateral damage, and boating down time.

Could you and your lawyer not just negotiate a letter confirming that if engine issues developed within a certain agreed prescribed time, they would replace. Otherwise, it might be all a storm in a teacup, and with fuel system fixed, you might be good to go..?
I don't think there should be collateral damage if they do it professionally other than down time and he's been promised that will be limited. As to replacement now vs a guarantee of future service, I'd take replacement now every time. When it breaks down in the future it might not be where they're located and he might have issues getting service. Plus worrying about future issues and then the inconvenience if there are any. You're right that it might be overkill but I'd want it done correctly and completely now with no chances. I believe if the likelihood of other damage was very slim, nearly non-existent, they wouldn't be doing all this. I think their judgement is that there is great risk that other damage has occurred. I wouldn't want to go back out with another partial fix or a fix and promise that if this didn't get it all, we'll fix again.
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Old 07-05-2017, 02:14 PM   #118
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Dave. Getting it out will be a tight squeeze. Engine is 36h x 35w. Height not a problem, but most bolt ons on the side will need to come off, after cooler and plumbing, exchanger also. Cabin door is 27", cockpit door 21". The flooring looks wide enough, but motor will have to move aft a bit, before it can come up. Probably need a spreader bar on the hoist points, to give a little more room height wise to clear. Transom door width the tightest squeeze. Every day job for the pros. Dan
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:41 PM   #119
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I had the boat towed over to the yard and hauled out. Cummins will start to work on it tomorrow morning at 8:00am. Cummins says they have the removal covered. I hope so. Unfortunately, I have to work so can't be there to watch.
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:49 PM   #120
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I had the boat towed over to the yard and hauled out. Cummins will start to work on it tomorrow morning at 8:00am. Cummins says they have the removal covered. I hope so. Unfortunately, I have to work so can't be there to watch.
Part of me would be relieved that I couldn't be there to watch.

Good luck! I'm sure in the end all will be good.
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