Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-20-2020, 01:47 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
City: California
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 128
Venerable FL120....???

Hi. I am looking at a vessel equipped with twin FL 2715E 120hp engines. In doing research, I found this info that seems to indated that the time gear in these engines is taking a beating that will likely lead to failure, due to the injection pump and raw water pump gearing.

A quote from EverythingAboutBoats.org is below.

But like the 4D & 6D, they still had the pressed steel timing gear covers and angle cut timing gears. The Lehman marinized versions of these engines were fitted with the troublesome two-shaft raw water pump which was developed by Lehman from a Jabsco rubber impeller type water pump and located just under the fuel injection pump. Both the directly driven fuel injection pump and the raw water pump contributed to rapid wear of the engine timing gears. When these gears failed, the engine would suffer significant internal damage. The earlier 4D and 6D engines did not suffer from as much gear wear because the soft shock absorbing fuel injection pump drive coupling had the beneficial effect of minimizing drive gear chatter, and thus engine timing gear wear was not the problem that it became on the Dorset Series engines

Any thoughts, responses or opinions?
__________________
Advertisement

Open-d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 01:59 PM   #2
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 11,852
I have not heard anything like this. I would call Brian at American Diesel and ask him.
__________________

__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 02:20 PM   #3
Guru
 
Airstream345's Avatar
 
City: Seattle, WA USA
Vessel Name: FORTITUDE
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 54-8
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 816
Never heard that either. The raw water pump shaft was a weak point but America Diesel sells a bolt in replacement for about $500 an engine.
__________________
FORTITUDE
Blog: mvfortitude.com
Instagram: @mvfortitude
Airstream345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 02:44 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
City: California
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
I have not heard anything like this. I would call Brian at American Diesel and ask him.
Do you think he would be offended at someone asking for information in such terms without a serious prospect of buying something from him at that time?
Open-d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 02:56 PM   #5
TF Site Team
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 11,852
I donít think that he would mind in the least. 120s are great engines and run forever so he will probably get a new customer in you anyway...
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 03:02 PM   #6
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,575
Greetings,
Mr. O-d. I have had occasion to have Brian give me part numbers so I could source a part locally. NO sale for him but he gladly advised and gave me the part #'s. I am a repeat customer so maybe that had a bearing BUT I really don't think so. Brian is a straight-up guy.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 03:05 PM   #7
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,797
Lehman’s are reliable and any foibles are well-known. Parts and rebuilds are readily available and they can be repaired with a hammer and a monkey wrench. Yes, they need regular maintenance. All engines do. The only engine I’ve had and like more is a Cummins 6CTA 8.3 which I have now and I’m only saying this in case it hears me and sulks.

Actually, a keel-cooled Lehman would be deluxe and if you don’t neglect the Simms pump it would possibly last forever in a boat.

All the hassle with a Lehman is a direct result of salt water and trying to keep it where it belongs.
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 03:26 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
City: California
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsbank View Post
Lehmanís are reliable and any foibles are well-known. Parts and rebuilds are readily available and they can be repaired with a hammer and a monkey wrench. Yes, they need regular maintenance. All engines do. The only engine Iíve had and like more is a Cummins 6CTA 8.3 which I have now and Iím only saying this in case it hears me and sulks.

Actually, a keel-cooled Lehman would be deluxe and if you donít neglect the Simms pump it would possibly last forever in a boat.

All the hassle with a Lehman is a direct result of salt water and trying to keep it where it belongs.
I am thinking that there are several versions of the FL120, and that this one, 2700 series, has some serious issues. I tried to call Brian, but his # is busy. I think he is closed, but I'll call a few more times.

Perhaps an email would be a better route.
Open-d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 04:04 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
City: California
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
I have not heard anything like this. I would call Brian at American Diesel and ask him.
I email Brian and followed with a call that made it through. Brian was most-helpful, and not-at-all put out by my all. In fact he invited me to call or email again if I have any other FL-related issues.

His answer to my question about the gear-driven pump was that it is NOT an issue. Further, the 2715 is the model referred to as FL120.

Brian, if you are following TF, thank you so very much.
Open-d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 06:20 PM   #10
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,117
Open-d,
I’m a little hazy about what your problem actually is but if the raw water pump somehow causes damage to the timing gears I’d consider a raw water pump remote from the engine.

That’s what I ordered with my repower 12 or so years ago. I had a Perkins engine removed and replaced it w a new Mitsubishi engine w the same cu. in. displacement. Numerous sub-systems on the engine were not the usual. I wanted an engine that didn’t have seawater coming in contact w aluminum. The all bronze Jabsco rubber vane equipped pump is what most all the fishermen north of Seattle employ on their boats. It’s driven by a V belt and a pulley on the harmonic balancer in front of the engine/crankshaft.

That reminds me I need to replace the impeller. Been in there for 4-6 years. But I’ve had no issues w this setup including no corrosion. And the pump impeller is available everywhere in Alaska.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 06:35 PM   #11
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,328
American Diesel would be very happy to discuss the raw water pump,they will sell you the upgraded replacement.
The other 3 issues I know of are:
1. The injector pump needs the oil changed regularly. Manuals vary between 50 and 200 hours, I compromised at 100 hours.
2. The engines can silt up in the coolant passages around no.6 cylinder. Some enthusiastic flushing should fix it.
3. The metal tube inside the expansion tank can block, and the tube leading down from it gets eaten away so you get a coolant leak which runs around the head gasket external joint, mimicking a leaking headgasket.
Balance those issues, and I suppose some others, against reliability, simplicity, no turbo,economy, parts availability, etc, and you still have a very desirable engine. None of its issues would come as a surprise to ADC.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 07:06 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Redhook98's Avatar
 
City: Colonial Beach, VA
Vessel Name: Tatoosh
Vessel Model: 1979 49ft Marine Trader RPH
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 231
I was just there today talking to Brian. I was open to buying two new Johnson pumps to replace my Jabsco pumps. I bourhgt some spare parts in for his opinion. (couple extra pumps, shafts and connection shaft assemblies) He decided not to sell me the Johnsons pumps and instead recommended just the rebuild kits for the Jabsco pumps. Stand up guy. Could have had a good sale, but went he in the right direction instead.



The gear driven pump is not the issue, like he said. It is the adapter they made to connect the pump to the motor. The tangs that intersect with the Jabsco pump can go bad. Depending who you ask, this could be a very common occurrence, or something to just keep an eye out for when you change impellers. There are many many FL120s out there still chugging away on their original Jabsco style pumps. That should tell you something.
__________________

__________________
"Everything on your boat is broken.... You just don't know it yet."
Redhook98 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×