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Old 02-25-2021, 10:19 AM   #1
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Velvet Drive questions

Hello all and thanks in advance for any help. Had transmission falure this past Saturday while moving our boat from Panama City to Cape Coral. Heard a grinding noise and then no forward or reverse. Got towed in to Crystal River and while under tow there was a bad grinding noise from transmission while prop was free wheeling. We were lucky to find a slip at Twin Rivers Marina where we remain. Transmission is a Velvet drive 10-13-000-003 with 2/1 reduction behind a Lehman 135. Pulled unit from boat and it was found that the splined shaft (planet carrier assembly I think) and the gear that goes on that shaft, what I beleive is called a sun gear had spun and all the splines were ground away. Reduction unit looks ok. Rented a car an took unit to a repair shop but they do not think these parts are avaliable. They say I may have to replace transmission with a different type which would involve lowering the engine. Evidently mine is a "drop center" unit. Any info on part sources to fix existing unit or experiences with replacing with a totally different transmission appreciated. Boat is a Marine Trader 38 single screw. Thank you
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Old 02-25-2021, 10:24 AM   #2
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The 10-13 is a Velvet Drive CR2, if I'm remembering correctly. Those are a bit hard to find certain parts for. I know the reduction gear parts for the standard Velvet Drive 71C and 72C are still available though.



I trashed a stationary plate in one of my reduction units a couple of years ago, but with no collateral damage (ring gear and such was fine, just clean up, new plate and it's been fine since). Picture of the carnage is below.
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Old 02-25-2021, 10:41 AM   #3
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https://www.acadianmarinetransmission.com/

https://www.harbormarine.net/transmission-service

Transmission Marine Inc- Industrial part| Installation Service & Repair


THese three I bookmarked as rebuilding Velvet Drive and Borg Warner gears.

I have no experience with them but they may serve as a starting point.
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Old 02-25-2021, 10:49 AM   #4
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I have been told parts are being reproduced near Seattle. Might call Brian at American Marine.

I have same tranny, 6000 hours, so following closely. Post lots of pictures.

When did you change dampner plate last?
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Old 02-25-2021, 12:29 PM   #5
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Thanks for the help. I dont have a photo of the gear that has stripped splines but here is one of the shaft. The splines are still there but damaged. They are totally gone on the gear. The larger gear in the reduction unit looks fine
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Old 02-25-2021, 12:39 PM   #6
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To correct "Choices" it's Brian at American Diesel, 804 435-3107.

Those transmissions are rock solid and very simple. You rarely have a catastrophic breakdown, but they do happen. I never could understand why rebuilding such a simple transmission should cost so much.

Same holds true for the F.L. 120 and 135. Mine cost $20,000 to rebuild.

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Old 02-25-2021, 01:18 PM   #7
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Pete,
I wondered about that too.
Must be the cost of parts.
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Old 02-25-2021, 01:20 PM   #8
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It's definitely parts cost if certain items need replacing. More so on the CR2 than the standard Velvet Drives. But even then, that stationary plate that de-toothed itself in my picture above cost me about $500 to replace (plus a few bucks for overnight shipping). Fortunately it didn't damage any of the other expensive gears in the reduction housing.
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Old 02-25-2021, 02:41 PM   #9
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https://treasure.craigslist.org/bpo/...280646359.html

Found this searching craig's list. That's a 2 minute search there are probably more around.
They list a CR-2 at the bottom of the ad
Good luck
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Old 02-25-2021, 02:48 PM   #10
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and I was beginning to think I was the one person with a singe in a 38 . i have the same setup but I think mine is close to 2-1/2 to 1 .so now I'm nervous .how many hours were on yours ? I have heard of several failures but not one that could not be fixed . check with seattleboatguy on here and YouTube he had a future of the same transmission in the great lakes .I'm not sure who worked on his.
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Old 02-25-2021, 02:54 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by timb View Post
and I was beginning to think I was the one person with a singe in a 38 . i have the same setup but I think mine is close to 2-1/2 to 1 .so now I'm nervous .how many hours were on yours ? I have heard of several failures but not one that could not be fixed . check with seattleboatguy on here and YouTube he had a future of the same transmission in the great lakes .I'm not sure who worked on his.

Both of my 2.57:1 72Cs have had the same reduction unit failure. The first one to go was at ~1500 hours and had gear damage and got a full rebuild (before it was my problem to fix). The other one failed about 50 hours later, but everything looked perfect aside from the sheared teeth on the plate. First one was a bit noisy for a while before failure, second one never made a sound, seemed perfect up until it let go with no warning. The rebuild has ~200 hours on it now, the one I just split the reduction housing and fixed has about 150 hours since the incident (~1700 total) with no signs of any further issue.

However, my transmissions are handling quite a bit more power than yours would be (340hp engines and planing cruise is around 180 - 200hp continuously). Both failures happened on plane, so with a decent bit of power going through the trans and at higher RPM.

I haven't heard of my specific failure being common, so I'm guessing it's only a concern in higher power and/or higher RPM situations (my engines turn ~4200 at WOT, planing cruise is 3200 - 3400).
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Old 02-25-2021, 04:10 PM   #12
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Plenty of parts available for the Velvet Drives, don't even think about going to a different transmission with all that can entail.
There are places that have rebuilt exchanges and many that can rebuild it for you, and always some on ebay & craigs list.
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Old 02-25-2021, 06:15 PM   #13
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Jleonard- Thank you for the link. Called Ron and told him the situation. He said that repairing this transmission would be shockingly expenive because the gears are so scarce. He said the engine could be lowered 1.66 inches and then use a 10-18-000-006 transmission which can be had rebuilt and ready to go for around 2k however I would have to get a new prop because current transmission is for left hand prop. He did not have an exact figure on repairing the current unit but it sounded like it could be as high as 10k. I am going to call some of the other places that you all have suggested and will post outcome. Thanks again
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Old 02-25-2021, 06:20 PM   #14
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timb- right at 3000 hours. Always changed fluids, etc. This came out of the blue - no noises or symtoms until it let go.
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:00 PM   #16
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Harbor Marine out of Everett, Washington will know your answers. They are a major Velvet Drive rebuilder. (425) 259-3285
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:11 PM   #17
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Thanks Brooksie. Did look at some of those but most are not drop center units. May have to go with that option if I can lower engine enough.
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Old 02-25-2021, 10:46 PM   #18
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Without a picture of the gear I can't be positive but it sounds like the drive gear. (or pinion gear) They are out of production. A machine shop specializing in gears could make one but it might cost you $2K. I would put new disks and seals in during rebuild.

Trans Atlantic Diesel has 2 CR2's in stock, 2.5:1, $3650 each plus shipping. You would need a new prop.

Basic Power Industries has a 1.6:1 CR2 reduction gear in stock, $1495 plus shipping. It is a complete bolt on replacement. You would need a new prop. (I buy gasket kits from them.)

Dropping the engine is not a trivial task. Guessing $2K. Standard 71C's are readily available, anywhere from $1-2K. You might be able to find just the reduction gear but most come with the transmission.

Replace the damper plate while you have transmission out.
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Old 02-26-2021, 07:05 AM   #19
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Thanks for that info- I would rather not have to lower the engine. I assume if I put 1.6:1 unit in I would need a lower pitched prop and if I went with the 2.5:1 more pitch. Also was told that the offset of the reduction units is different and the engine height would still have to be adjusted not sure about that though.
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Old 02-26-2021, 07:57 AM   #20
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The problem you have with your CR2 is THE problem those typically develop usually in the 4-5000 hour timeframe. The parts needed are particular to that transmission and have not been produced in many years. That said, there are MANY rebuilders of these transmissions. Even if you have to buy one outright for $3-5k you will be much better off than buying something else then having to go through all the changes to accommodate it.

Btw - there are 2 models of CR2, 10-13 and 10-14. The 10-14 has slightly beefier clutches and so is 3/4” longer but other than that there is no difference in the drop or any other dimension amongst all of the ratios.

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