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Old 07-13-2018, 07:27 AM   #41
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33 CFR Part 183 Subpart J, the USCG requirement for Gasoline Fuel Systems went into effect in 1977. The purpose of the pressure test was to replicate the head pressure of a tank with the fill pipe full of fuel. 3 PSI represent approximately 1.5 times the pressure of a 6-foot head. This section of the USCG regulations only applies to gasoline powered boats. This was immediately adopted by ABYC, and it was expanded by ABYC to include Diesel boats in about 1983. NOTE, there are no such USCG requirements for diesel fuel tanks. This requirement was adopted by the ISO TC 183 Small Craft, in 1999, or 2000. Note the ISO requirement does apply to both gas and diesel.
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:50 AM   #42
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[QUOTE=tadhana;680546]
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Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
I found the pressure relief fuel caps from attwood, this kind does not use a carbon canister. They have caps that require a carbon canister, I recommend you do not bother with the added expense, although the EPA would like you to capture all vapor emissions!, I do believe that compromises the sealed system idea as the carbon canister sits in the vent line exposed to the air.

Deckfills for Pressure Relief Systems : Attwood Marine

The fuel demand valve I used was not tank integrated, I used the model for outboard motors. My old tank could not support an integrated tank fuel demand valve, (from attwood) and it was simple to just install right at the tank inline with the hose. And the price was right compared to the Perko valve which might have screwed int the tank, but then have to mess around with pickup tube length.

This valve is not legal according to the USCG regulations and ABYC. Any decent surveyor will find it and ding you on it. Plus it is a safety risk which you should certainly avoid.
I just don't care, it works even though it is 'illegal' It is sold for above deck use, but the integrated Attwood for below deck look and are made the exact same design, they just snap into a premade tank fitting on top the tank. The only functional difference is the one I used is inline, so it has an inlet and outlet for a hose.

It is not a safety risk. Is someone going to put a blow torch on it, well wont make a difference with either the on tank model, or the inline model, result will be the same.

And no one will ever survey my boat., while I own it, I am never selling the boat.
Even if I did sell it, it would always be sold as is. Then let the next owner buy the Perko fuel demand valve that screws into the tank versus staying with the Attwood inline valve..

Here is the integrated Attwood valve
https://www.backtoboating.com/produc...l-demand-valve



Here is the inline valve, the similarity is obvious, the same parts are used in constructing both units.
https://www.wholesalemarine.com/attw...oaAlDsEALw_wcB
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:25 PM   #43
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This reminds me of the "safety" pour spouts placed into production and made to be on every portable gas tank... by "law" in CA. You know the ones on portable red plastic gasoline cans... that don't work worth a shat!
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:39 PM   #44
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This reminds me of the "safety" pour spouts placed into production and made to be on every portable gas tank... by "law" in CA. You know the ones on portable red plastic gasoline cans... that don't work worth a shat!
Yes, safety stupidity at work and they passed a regulation to force those changes onto the public unwillingly because the EPA does not like any vapor emissions.

If you go with a new fuel system, do not use the charcoal vapor canister design, it pleases the epa but leaves the vent open to the air. Go with the vopr fill cap it works. I also read a lot of complaints on hull truth forum about the charcoal canisters, they can make filling the fuel tank extremely slow, complaint was kept backing up in the fill nozzle, could not fill the tank, took a long long time to fill the tank. And it seemed like a lot of OEM were going with the charcoal canisters, which actually adds more cost. The Perko fill for a charcoal vapor system, has no valve in the cap, 100% sealed tight. The Attwood fill for the charcoal system has a valve that only opens at a high pressure, like they suggest in an emergency overpressure situation, perhaps if the ventline gets clogged.
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:22 AM   #45
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This reminds me of the "safety" pour spouts placed into production and made to be on every portable gas tank... by "law" in CA. You know the ones on portable red plastic gasoline cans... that don't work worth a shat!
In industrial law,it is said the only really safe machine is one so adequately fitted with guards it cannot be used.
Likewise, the only safe fuel pouring spout is one which does not allow any fuel to pass through it.
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Old 07-14-2018, 01:24 AM   #46
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In industrial law,it is said the only really safe machine is one so adequately fitted with guards it cannot be used.
Likewise, the only safe fuel pouring spout is one which does not allow any fuel to pass through it.
That means the only safe human is a dead one!!?? Lest I transgress! LOL
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Old 07-14-2018, 01:41 AM   #47
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That means the only safe human is a dead one!!?? Lest I transgress! LOL
Art, if a person dies, are they still "a human"? Methinks not, on both a religious and an organic basis.
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Old 07-14-2018, 01:08 PM   #48
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Art, if a person dies, are they still "a human"? Methinks not, on both a religious and an organic basis.
Bruce - Perhaps we are both "looking through a glass darkly". In regard to religious or organic basis.

You think dead human is not safe to others when dead [in basic similarity to the only safe gas valve/pour-spout is one that will not let any fuel through].

I disagree. Once dead that human can no longer be a danger. Procedures the human instituted before dying may remain dangerous to other items in the world... but that [those instances ] too will eventually die out.

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Old 07-14-2018, 04:22 PM   #49
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This reminds me of the "safety" pour spouts placed into production and made to be on every portable gas tank... by "law" in CA. You know the ones on portable red plastic gasoline cans... that don't work worth a shat!
To over come-that stupid required pour spout, look up the following:

www.ezpourspout.com

and I will include the cautions and prohibited states, just for the fun of it.

Designed for refueling off road equipment, tractors, bobcats, boats, wave riders and more.

Only for portable fuel containers manufactured prior to Jan 1 2009.

Will not fit in unleaded automobile gas tanks.

This product is not CARB compliant.
Not for sale in the following states; CA, CT, DE, MA, ME, MD, NH, NJ, NY, OH and VA.

The above is just incase you tired of spilling more gas than you get into the tank.

I bought 3 ear-making one who shall remain unnamed and lives in an unnamed state.
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:36 PM   #50
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[QUOTE=OldDan1943;681170]To over come-that stupid required pour spout, look up the following:

www.ezpourspout.com

/QUOTE]

Thanks Dan

Seen that before. I'm sure it flows OK as long as air vent is also in tank's rear. Otherwise suction problem would be big PIA. Also, due to rather slim hose it might take a while to empty all 5 gals.

The way I handle filling "whatever" from 5 gal plastic portable tanks is to always have a long nozzle funnel at hand; with its nozzle shortened to point of a fairly large diameter. That way I fully open the large end of the tank and pour into wide funnel top. Tank's opening is plenty big enough to handle both the fuel and self fed breather need. Empties quickly!!
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:45 PM   #51
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Here's one that has my interest. Never held one yet. Seems easy to use. Bottom hole in a fuel can scares the HELL out of me. Shat happens!

https://www.surecanusa.com/
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Old 07-14-2018, 06:30 PM   #52
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Here's one that has my interest. Never held one yet. Seems easy to use. Bottom hole in a fuel can scares the HELL out of me. Shat happens!

https://www.surecanusa.com/
Thanks. Glad to see other options and I agrees with your assessment. At least there are three options so far.
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Old 07-14-2018, 06:33 PM   #53
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[QUOTE=Art;681186]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDan1943 View Post
To over come-that stupid required pour spout, look up the following:

www.ezpourspout.com

/QUOTE]

Thanks Dan

Seen that before. I'm sure it flows OK as long as air vent is also in tank's rear. Otherwise suction problem would be big PIA. Also, due to rather slim hose it might take a while to empty all 5 gals.

The way I handle filling "whatever" from 5 gal plastic portable tanks is to always have a long nozzle funnel at hand; with its nozzle shortened to point of a fairly large diameter. That way I fully open the large end of the tank and pour into wide funnel top. Tank's opening is plenty big enough to handle both the fuel and self fed breather need. Empties quickly!!
There is always a work around. SMILE
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Old 07-18-2018, 01:48 PM   #54
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Found a VOPR valve that is self contained and goes in a 5/8 vent line.
This would have to tee off a vent line running to a vented deck fill using a sealed cap.
So the fill would allow you to fill the tank having the wide open vent running to the deck fill, while this vopr valve would tee off the vent line to an outside area of the hull. Doing this the deck fill cap could be 100% sealed, with no built in valve.
1 PSI to vent out, and .05 psi to let air in the tank.


BK0280025 - Diurnal Control Valve (DCV) 5/8" x 5/8" - Vapor Space Management - OE Boat Builders
I had been thinking such a thing ought to exist.

Blue Skies also has threaded fuel demand valves. And the prices look good.

I could have modified my 1970 Perko bronze fills, added a vent back to the fill.
Would have required tapping a thread hole for a 1/2 inch pipe for the vent line, and used that vent valve and kept the original look of my system.
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