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Old 04-06-2018, 09:39 PM   #1
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Tiny Tug, H2O in the furl

I have a Tiny Tug with a 4 cylinder, naturally aspirated diesel. I only get about 16 hours run time on my racor. Water clogs the filter that quick. I cut one open and the paper was soaked with water. I'm running a 10 micron filter. A buddy in the business said to run 30 micron filters. He said as long as the engine starts, any water will simply burn up. I couldn't find anyone to polish my fuel, Saint Joseph, Mi.
any thoughts??

Thanks
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Old 04-06-2018, 10:28 PM   #2
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That much water is not good for your injector pump. Sounds like you have a fair amount in your tank(s). I'd suggest at least getting the free water out. If you don't have a drain at the bottom of your tank, use an oil extractor pump to suck the water off the bottom at the lowest corner if possible. Then check for obvious places the water might be getting in. (filler cap o-ring, loose hose clamp on bottom of filler fitting etc)
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Old 04-06-2018, 11:25 PM   #3
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Water turning to steam expands 16 times. If too much water is getting to your injectors, it can expand and blow the tips. You have water in the tank. That's the whole problem. Either leaking in or in the fuel you buy. Use a conditioner in the fuel that will expel the water so it's easier for the Racor to stop it. Water will pass thru a paper element filter so the micron size has nothing to do with the problem. Most diesels use a primary filter of 30 microns and a secondary filter of 10 microns. I run a 2 micron primary because I only buy clean fuel from commercial sellers. I never have fuel problems. I add a conditioner every time I fuel. Todays diesel is not very stable and will go bad. The conditioners that come in the fuel only lasts a few months.
I have dual Racors and they're fine filters. Water should be collecting in the bottom bowl where you can drain it out before the whole filter is full of water. With a fuel conditioner, your Racor and a circulation pump, you can polish your own fuel.
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Old 04-07-2018, 12:08 AM   #4
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Water turning to steam expands 16 times. If too much water is getting to your injectors, it can expand and blow the tips. You have water in the tank. That's the whole problem. Either leaking in or in the fuel you buy. Use a conditioner in the fuel that will expel the water so it's easier for the Racor to stop it. Water will pass thru a paper element filter so the micron size has nothing to do with the problem. Most diesels use a primary filter of 30 microns and a secondary filter of 10 microns. I run a 2 micron primary because I only buy clean fuel from commercial sellers. I never have fuel problems. I add a conditioner every time I fuel. Todays diesel is not very stable and will go bad. The conditioners that come in the fuel only lasts a few months.
I have dual Racors and they're fine filters. Water should be collecting in the bottom bowl where you can drain it out before the whole filter is full of water. With a fuel conditioner, your Racor and a circulation pump, you can polish your own fuel.

When water flashes to steam it expands 1600+ times it's volume, not 16 times.
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Old 04-07-2018, 12:33 AM   #5
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Welcome Mr. CF. I think I saw a video of Nigel Calder rigging up a diy fuel polishing setup at sea. I can’t find it now. Search YouTube. Get the water out. Good luck.
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Old 04-07-2018, 12:37 AM   #6
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Time to hire a company to polish your fuel, change all your filters including your primary filter on each engine.
Consider changing the o'rings of the fill caps too.
Cant find a company to polish your fuel? Get a spare Racor filter housing, an approved electric fuel pump and a clean barrel or two, large enough to hold the fuel from one tank. Remove all the fuel from one tank through the Racor and into the barrel, open the inspection cover, start wiping out the tank, taking care to ensure you have a fresh air supply so you dont kill yourself in the process. Pump the fuel back into the tank and circulate the fuel for an hour or 2, through the filter, changing the filter. If you do a really good job, you are in the fuel polishing business. LOL The only problem is finding a place to properly to dispose the rags.

Ah I forgot, put in a suitable additive into the fuel when done.
That's the basic way to polish the fuel.
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Old 04-07-2018, 05:16 AM   #7
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TT

How many gallons of fuel do you have in your tanks(s)?
How old?
Whose hose did it come from?

As mentioned, find the source of water ingress. Do this first. It can be boat or delivery related. All cleaning, additives or fuel disposal efforts are for naught until this detective work 100% accomplished.

Good luck. Just remember, play Joe Friday first.
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:27 AM   #8
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Some fuel tanks do have a bottom drain , so pulling the water out can be cheap and simple , a pail.

More likely is a tank that lifts the fuel from a down pipe .

If you are lucky a weighted thin plastic tube can be slid down the normal fill setup and the water at the bottom can be pumped out. Oil burner shops have a paste that can show the water level.

On some boats the fuel box can be removed to be cleaned .

Worst case is a port is cut into the tank wall , the water removed and the tank scrubbed , as the water will have left bug waste glued to the tank walls.

Its slow , but after you solve the problem and empty / clean the tank using a Baja Filter on EVERY drop of fuel going in will help.

An instant "cure" might be an old style glass filter with a cloth sock , similar to a lawn mower , but sized to hold a quart or so,. Try a farm store.

Although you wont be able to see/monitor the water level a bronze gasoline fuel/water filter as used for decades on gas boats could be drained every few hours, as a quick fix.

These can be drained or taken apart to clean the fine metal mesh screen.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:34 AM   #9
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FF it is better to remove the top inspection plates so you can get on either side of the baffles.
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:45 PM   #10
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I remember my marine engineer mentor discussing water in diesel and injector tips blowing off before.... I had to ask again as my research turned up confusing results....

here is his tesponse to my question....

"what is up with the steam exploding tips? you know how many web sites endorse the theory?"

Have you ever noticed how many websites simply cut and paste the same stuff, true or otherwise, that some other website publishes? There is no fact checking or peer revue of this stuff. The steam thing just sounds so damn good to so many people who don't know anything about steam or diesel injectors.

First off, the critical pressure of steam, the pressure at which it is as dense as water is 3200 psi, about the same pressure as a low budget mechanical injection system. So, at worst the density of the steam is the same as the water in the fuel and no more than the pressure created by the injection pump ... and far far less than the injection pressure of a modern common rail engine.

The temperature of an injector tip never gets high enough to create high steam pressures. A tip might reach a temperature of around just over 500F (remember, it is cooled by the fuel passing through it) and at that temperature the steam pressure is only around 700 or 800 psi. What is your injection pressure? I think it is around 3000psi, right? How many injector tips do you blow off every trip?


If the holes in the injector tip were blocked then the pressure developed by a mechanical injector pump might be adequate to fracture a tip that is already badly worn between the holes. If the fuel contains water it is likely that it carries rust and dirt with it or will rust and corrode the injector internals and that is what will block the injector tips.

Mixtures of up to 50 percent water and fuel have been successfully used as a means to limit NOx production in large engines. Some of them used stratified layers of water and fuel and others used a homogeneous mixture. They did not blow the tips off the injectors.
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Old 04-07-2018, 09:55 PM   #11
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Try one of those "water socks"? Stick it in the fill hole, till it hits bottom and let it soak the water up. I used one on my little Whaleboat tank, seemed to help. Might get by with it, I don't imagine the tank in his boat is very big.
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Old 04-07-2018, 11:27 PM   #12
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Blowing off the injector tips is only part of the damage that water will do to the engine. The high pressure pump has very tight tolerances, and relies on the lubricating properties of the fuel to combat wear. Water does not do this and can also corrode the pumps internals when it is allowed to sit there, when the motor is not running.
As mentioned above, the first step is to determine where the water is coming from and take action to stop the source.
Beyond that, water separators and graduated filtration in two or more stages is always appropriate for a boat.
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:13 AM   #13
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thank you captains, one and all

I bought the boat a year ago. When I went to fill it the first time the O rings were missing on both fuel caps, just what was mentioned on this thread. I replace them.
At the marina where I bought the boat, it was suggested to add K1000 to each tank. It did the trick, I tried siphoning off the bottom of the tanks with a piece of soft copper and a fuel pump, no water, all in suspension.
The boat is now in Saint Joseph Mi., I know the real solution lies in
"polishing" the fuel. No luck, no one this far north does that.
I was thinking of installing a 2nd primary filter, when one plugs, switch a valve and run on the other. Replace the filter after things cool off in the engine room.
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:33 AM   #14
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I bought the boat a year ago. When I went to fill it the first time the O rings were missing on both fuel caps, just what was mentioned on this thread. I replace them.
At the marina where I bought the boat, it was suggested to add K1000 to each tank. It did the trick, I tried siphoning off the bottom of the tanks with a piece of soft copper and a fuel pump, no water, all in suspension.
The boat is now in Saint Joseph Mi., I know the real solution lies in
"polishing" the fuel. No luck, no one this far north does that.
I was thinking of installing a 2nd primary filter, when one plugs, switch a valve and run on the other. Replace the filter after things cool off in the engine room.
If it were me I would install one of these up stream of the primary filter. HTH JD https://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/s...RoCfxsQAvD_BwE

https://smile.amazon.com/iFJF-Automo...70_&dpSrc=srch
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0769BW6...&pd_rd_w=N8W0G
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:08 AM   #15
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Many thanks for the suggestions. I'll try and find a polishing service or try it on my own with barrels on the dock , fuel pump, and filter.


Thanks one and all
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:04 AM   #16
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Some marina's do not permit drums or bladders on the dock sooooooo, dont ask their permission.

Another old saying, "easier to get forgiveness than it is permission"

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Old 04-12-2018, 03:49 PM   #17
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Many thanks for the suggestions. I'll try and find a polishing service or try it on my own with barrels on the dock , fuel pump, and filter.


Thanks one and all
Have you thought about installing a 12V pump in the fuel line and running it through a water separator and returning it back to the fuel tank? If you draw the water off the separator as it accumulates you should get the water out of the system. All you have is water and not trash to deal with,so it should work just fine. If it were me I would keep the separator in the fuel system. HTH JD
https://smile.amazon.com/Diesel-sepa...70_&dpSrc=srch
https://smile.amazon.com/Amarine-mad...esel+fuel+pump
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:28 PM   #18
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All you have is water and not trash to deal with,so it should work just fine. If it were me I would keep the separator in the fuel system. HTH JD
Water in the tank is where the trash is bred, so unless the water just fell in last week, there is likely goopy trash too.
Seaboard Marine markets a filter/water separator combo unit that is extremely effective at cleaning up this stuff.
I’d get one and use it to polish the fuel, then install it permanently in the fuel system.
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:14 PM   #19
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(I have a Tiny Tug with a 4 cylinder, naturally aspirated diesel. I only get about 16 hours run time on my racor. Water clogs the filter that quick. I cut one open and the paper was soaked with water. I'm running a 10 micron filter. A buddy in the business said to run 30 micron filters. He said as long as the engine starts, any water will simply burn up. I couldn't find anyone to polish my fuel, Saint Joseph, Mi.
any thoughts??

Thanks)


His original post only mentions water in the filter and not trash. If he gets rid of the water and uses a biocide he might be ok. and at a lot less money. I am just saying. HTH JD
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:27 PM   #20
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(I have a Tiny Tug with a 4 cylinder, naturally aspirated diesel. I only get about 16 hours run time on my racor. Water clogs the filter that quick. I cut one open and the paper was soaked with water. I'm running a 10 micron filter. A buddy in the business said to run 30 micron filters. He said as long as the engine starts, any water will simply burn up. I couldn't find anyone to polish my fuel, Saint Joseph, Mi.
any thoughts??

Thanks)


His original post only mentions water in the filter and not trash. If he gets rid of the water and uses a biocide he might be ok. and at a lot less money. I am just saying. HTH JD
That is why we have all been talking about fuel polishing, to rid his fuel of water.
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