Thoughts on Bow Thrusters

[OldDan1943]

My thruster were on the single 4D start battery. While docking the Cummins kept shutting down on low voltage about 10.6vts. Was a bad battery. I had the bow thrust rewired to the 3X4D house batteries. Now I have both thrusters on the house batteries. Soooo, if I still need more, I can bring the start battery in parallel. Of course the main engine, generator and battery charger are all on line too.

Opps forgot. The emergency generator start has an ON/OFF switch hooked to the house batteries. Once started, turn that switch OFF and all is back to normal.

 

[sean9c]

My thruster/windlass is connected to my start battery but if my engine is running the ACR is connecting the start and house together so I'm pretty much running the thruster/windlass on all my batteries + my alternator. So 2 G31 start batteries + 6-GC2's house batteries.
Also don't understand putting a wimpy 20amp or so dedicated charger on your thruster/windlass battery. If you've run the battery down using it you want to put amps back in a fast as you can not be limited by your charger capacity.

 

[Scooby5959]

I got this idea from the sailboaters running there winchs with a cordless drill .I was able to get a hydraulic drum winch off of a commercial fishing boat that was being scrapped cleaned it up removed the hydraulic motor off of it . I won’t bore you with all the details .I run it with a Dewalt 60 Volt Right angle drill so far so good

 

[backinblue]

My thruster/windlass is connected to my start battery but if my engine is running the ACR is connecting the start and house together so I'm pretty much running the thruster/windlass on all my batteries + my alternator. So 2 G31 start batteries + 6-GC2's house batteries.
Also don't understand putting a wimpy 20amp or so dedicated charger on your thruster/windlass battery. If you've run the battery down using it you want to put amps back in a fast as you can not be limited by your charger capacity.

Are you certain about that? I'm sure the ACR allows the alternator to send current to both the house and start batteries, but I don't know that it connects them together such that any load draws from both banks. I could be wrong, and if so I'm sure someone will be quick to correct me.

 

[sean9c]

I think it depends on the ACR, the Victron one that I use just combines after a threshold voltage is met, it doesn't matter if the source is alternator or charger, and stays combined until voltage drops below threshold. I think some of the Blue Seas units get more sophisticated and even if combined due to the presence of a charging voltage will disconnect if they see a large amp draw like an engine start.

Are you certain about that? I'm sure the ACR allows the alternator to send current to both the house and start batteries, but I don't know that it connects them together such that any load draws from both banks. I could be wrong, and if so I'm sure someone will be quick to correct me.

 

[Jmackai]

Bow thruster windless

I'm thinking of running my windless from my bow thruster batteries. What follows is a brief description of my bow thruster, windless, and DC panel wiring. Followed by questions on charging considerations.

A couple of years ago I had a Lewmar bow thruster added to my boat. It is powered by two 12 V batteries, wired to provide 12 volts. The charge is maintained by a #8 wire, protected by a 30 amp fuse that goes from the batteries to a positive distribution post in my electrical closet. This distribution post it fed from my main distribution (house battery xantrex charging) located in my engine room.

At present my Tigress windless is fed by a 40 year old #1/0 cable, of unknown Taiwanese quality that goes from my main distribution in my engine room through a 100 amp fuse and a 30 foot run to the windless.

My proposal is to run my Tigress windless from my bow thruster batteries with some 2/0 welding cable that I have on hand. No run would be more than 4 feet.

I also just completed a new DC panel install (Blueseas 8380), on the other side of my electrical closet, that has a multiple bank voltage metering capability so I will be able to see what the voltage is on my bow thruster/windless batteries. The sensing wire for voltage measurement is independent from the panel.
The panel is fed by a 2/0 distribution wire from engine room that steps down to an 18" long 2 awg wire after the shunt to accommodate the panel swinging out on a piano hinge.

Question
Do I leave my #8 wire to my positive bus bar in my electrical closet as my charging wire as is or do I employ a Xantrex echo charger from my main distribution bar in the engine room. Could I run the echo charger from my 2/0 main feed in the electrical closet before the shunt? Do I need an echo charger at all?

I also have an isolator in the engine room for my house bank and start battery fed by my alternator (150amp). Considering the size and expense to run a cable from my isolator to my thruster batteries (30ft), is there any sense to do that? I could use my old 1/0 wire that is all ready in place.

I hope I explained myself coherently.

Bow thrusters can work off if a truck like battery say for a starter however your windless needs a deep cycle example you put down an anchor and chain of 300 feet your windless if a starter battety will give up the ghost so to speak and take too long to recover keep them separate captain jerry 53 selene home base,San Diego currently in the bvi

 

[MVDarlin]

Long discussion. I too want to locate a battery near the windless. Sending power 15 ft fwd ftom the main panel over 0 wire and a 100 amp breaker seems nuts. Some years ago I asssembled an ammo box with solenoid and wires to connect a battery to my windless. I bring s 55 amp Optima to the bow and use a 4 awg wire. Works great. A permanent install with battery in anchor locker charged by a dc to dc charger is ahead.

 

[Sofa King Fishy]

[Something to consider is that (at least for me) you are always running your engines when operations the windlass or bow thruster. /QUOTE]

Not me. I would run my windlass to take up most of the scope 20 or so feet at a time before I fired up the engine. This would give the chain time to clean off.

And if your engine (s) fail to start, you’re in a potentially unsafe situation that will require you to redeploy your anchor while unable to set it. ‘Crank it before you yank it!’

 

[backinblue]

And if your engine (s) fail to start, you’re in a potentially unsafe situation that will require you to redeploy your anchor while unable to set it. ‘Crank it before you yank it!’

That was my point as well, thanks!

 

[backinblue]

So to follow up on my own question about ACRs, I did some research because I don't know a lot about them. It appears true that they combine battery banks as long as the voltage of both are above a certain voltage and charging. That means loads are applied to the entire combined bank. However, if a large draw or weak battery causes one of the banks to drop below a voltage threshold, then they are disconnected. I will confirm this next season when I can compare Engine and House voltages with the engine running.

Tons of good info here if you take the time to read through their technical articles.

https://www.bluesea.com/

 

[Comodave]

That was my point as well, thanks!

Agree. If for some reason the batteries go dead trying to raise the anchor and then you can’t start the engine(s) and if your windlass doesn’t free fall, you may be unable to reanchor.

 

[Bacchus]

I think it depends on the ACR, the Victron one that I use just combines after a threshold voltage is met, it doesn't matter if the source is alternator or charger, and stays combined until voltage drops below threshold. I think some of the Blue Seas units get more sophisticated and even if combined due to the presence of a charging voltage will disconnect if they see a large amp draw like an engine start.

When I was researching combiners I was concerned that when thrusters were activated with banks combined the relay could see some very high amps. The following is an excerpt from my details about this project.
"The Sterling CVSR was chosen for the following reasons:
1. I was concerned that if the thrusters were activated when the main engine was running, alternator charging and the combiner relay engaged it might be possible for the thrusters to draw from both the thruster batt’y and the start / house batty’s. If so, this could be a high current feed through the combiner / relay. I discussed this point (and shared the above schematic) with the ProMariner tech rep relative to using their ProIsoCharge Unit for this application. The ProMariner tech rep advised against using their ProIsoCharge unit for this application. I ruled out other similar combiners for this same reason as they were not capable of handling high amperages.
2. I considered using a Blue Sea ML-ACR unit as it is capable of handling high current and can be configured with a manual switch or automatic relay to isolate batteries under certain conditions. I thought about dropping out the combine function and isolating batteries when the thrusters were activated. The cost was similar to the Sterling CSVR unit and would have entailed more wiring to enable the automatic isolate function. I believe this would work as well as the Sterling unit.
3. Sterling was very helpful and after reviewing the proposed schematics they confirmed the CVSR would work well in this application. In addition it can be configured in several different ways taking advantage of various features. I chose to utilize the Ignition activation mode by connecting an ignition wire from the alternator. This isolated the batt’ys when the ignition is off and allowed combining only when the ignition was on and appropriate batter voltages were sensed by the CVSR (see the manual for complete description of operating modes)."
The full write up with schematics can be found at

https://dkloeber.wixsite.com/bacchus/project-pg-4
See charging system mods project if interested.

 

[psneeld]

[Something to consider is that (at least for me) you are always running your engines when operations the windlass or bow thruster. /QUOTE]

Not me. I would run my windlass to take up most of the scope 20 or so feet at a time before I fired up the engine. This would give the chain time to clean off.

Me too Jay.

Some people love routines......me, I love thinking through every situation on its own and proceed with that knowledge.

I have never heard from so many paranoid people about failures and danger as I have on this forum.

Nice to be concerned .....but every boating situation isn't in a storm/strong current or the boat falling apart or no options other than the one you are following.

Commercial tug guys, commercial towers, Coasties...all guys with jobs that would give many here heart attacks and they are no where near as paranoid in my experience.

 

[backinblue]

I'm not paranoid at all. Starting my engine is the least of my worries. I'm not against anyone's routines, there are many ways to accomplish things. I just don't understand the thought behind not starting the engine before raising the anchor? Is it to save a few ounces of fuel? Isn't it also good to have the alternator running at the same time as your windlass?

When we are ready to leave an anchorage and everything is stowed, etc, I start the engine and go to the bow to run the windlass. My wife is at the helm and nudges the boat forward when I tell her to as I raise the anchor. Whole process takes a couple minutes. She then generally steers us out of the harbor. What is the disadvantage to having a cold engine idle for a couple minutes before driving the boat?

 

[OldDan1943]

The Dockmate changes many things. Start the engine, engage Dockmate remote, go fwd, move the boat fwd at crawler speed as you take up the slack...... shift into neutral via Dockmate, lift and stow the anchor. If necessary, adjust the boats heading with the bow and stern thrusters, via Dockmate remote, to get a good position in relationship to the anchor as you are lifting it.Walk back to helm, take control at the helm and go on your merry way.
Not too shabby, eh?

 

[backinblue]

Dockmate sounds great if you are short-handed and need it. I'm trying to understand the reasoning behind raising the anchor prior to starting the engine. I'm open-minded, but just don't see the value in that.

 

[psneeld]

I'm not paranoid at all. Starting my engine is the least of my worries. I'm not against anyone's routines, there are many ways to accomplish things. I just don't understand the thought behind not starting the engine before raising the anchor? Is it to save a few ounces of fuel? Isn't it also good to have the alternator running at the same time as your windlass?

When we are ready to leave an anchorage and everything is stowed, etc, I start the engine and go to the bow to run the windlass. My wife is at the helm and nudges the boat forward when I tell her to as I raise the anchor. Whole process takes a couple minutes. She then generally steers us out of the harbor. What is the disadvantage to having a cold engine idle for a couple minutes before driving the boat?

Some in muddy areas raise their anchor in sections so soaking cleans the mud off. They will have a cup of coffee and do other things...it may take an hour or so and keeps useless idling down. Sure a great washdown system can do the same, but when not in a rush......


Unless pulling in hundreds of feet of rode, the few seconds of raising till the mud starts and then in 20 or so foot increments doesn't deplete healthy batteries. P,us my starting battery is totally separate so no paranoia needed about the main not starting. Even if that isn't you but others.

I am not worried about saving ounces of fuel...but I am smart enough to see wisdom in what others do different than me. But I don't assume they do it for silly reasons.

 

[backinblue]

Thanks for the explanation. It certainly makes sense if you are going to take an hour to raise your anchor. I didn't assume it was a silly reason, that's why I asked the question. Where I boat, mud is rarely a problem and even when it is, I don't have all-chain and the chain I have is stainless, so it comes up pretty clean regardless.

 

[OldDan1943]

Dockmate sounds great if you are short-handed and need it. I'm trying to understand the reasoning behind raising the anchor prior to starting the engine. I'm open-minded, but just don't see the value in that.

IMO, always start the main engine BEFORE raising the anchor.

 

[Tiffany]

I agree with you remarks and practice; my engine is running anytime I'm using the windlass and/or bow thruster.

 

[psneeld]

Big difference in hauling away and anchor aweigh.

 

[BruceK]

Australian windlass mfr Muir, advise in the Manual to run engine(s) while retrieving. Our windlass draws 100A so it makes sense. I suppose that goes for powered paying out too, can`t imagine many boats with engines shut down while anchoring, but there`s sure to be at least one proponent.

 

[Airstream345]

I've done some work on a friend's Compass MY and this is exactly how things are setup. The windlass and thruster share a 24V system (2 12V Lifeline 8Ds) located in the bow with a 120V charger located next to the batteries.

 

[Bacchus]

I've done some work on a friend's Compass MY and this is exactly how things are setup. The windlass and thruster share a 24V system (2 12V Lifeline 8Ds) located in the bow with a 120V charger located next to the batteries.

That sounded good until you mentioned 8Ds!
A pair of GP31s are roughly equivalent to an 8D in MCA/CCA and AHs and can be handled by most individuals.