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Old 06-03-2019, 11:14 AM   #141
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WOW what are you planing on doing with all the motor parts ??????
If you are referring to the diesel engines that are being removed, they are likely scrap.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:29 AM   #142
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Twin screw steering is likely a lot less efficient and much less responsive than rudders so I would hold on to the rudders incase you want to try it without them.

I think you will have a great harbor cruiser at the very least. Long distance at some (very slow speed) with the genset and solar arrays but not much reserve long term energy for headwind and tide. Very rough numbers 8kW = 8 HP. With the solar you will have s14HP equiv (again very rough numbers).

A GREAT project and I look forward to following along.

The hybrid car relies on the fact that it does not take a lot of energy to keep a car moving and they can recover energy from acceleration and climbing hills.
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:41 PM   #143
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Twin screw steering is likely a lot less efficient and much less responsive than rudders so I would hold on to the rudders incase you want to try it without them.

I think you will have a great harbor cruiser at the very least. Long distance at some (very slow speed) with the genset and solar arrays but not much reserve long term energy for headwind and tide. Very rough numbers 8kW = 8 HP. With the solar you will have s14HP equiv (again very rough numbers).

A GREAT project and I look forward to following along.

The hybrid car relies on the fact that it does not take a lot of energy to keep a car moving and they can recover energy from acceleration and climbing hills.
Thanks

It actually takes about 20kW to maintain 60mph on the flat highway for most electric cars due to wind resistance.

There was a calculation of 4.5kW@ 4knots for this size boat and 9kW@5knots. So slow speeds are expected.

The motors I am using are out of a hybrid but I am using them as just electric motors. They should have the power to some type of day cruising.

I agree that there will some conditions that will be problematic.
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Old 06-05-2019, 01:48 PM   #144
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Question Could Star-Lord generate electricity from aquatic currents while anchored....?

A naive question for the electro-smart guys in the audience...

Could Star-Lord anchor in a current (say 3-5 knot) and use his rotating propellers to generate electricity via the electric drive motors??? I know it wouldn't be much electricity but maybe equal to a couple of solar panels...???

I have been wondering about this since the Navy began using diesel-electric systems... A ship could anchor in a tidal or river current, let the propellers turn freely, then use the electric drive motors in reverse to generate electricity. Maybe enough for partial 'hotel' power...???

SO... Could this possibly be another source of electricity while Star-Lord is anchored?

OR... Is this a totally clueless, painfully-simplistic idea from an old sailor...?

Good luck on your project Star-Lord and please let us know how things are going...
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Old 06-05-2019, 02:38 PM   #145
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I think it could work with that sort of current, though one normally trys to anchor out of the current, not in it.
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Old 06-05-2019, 02:45 PM   #146
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Well then, you'll REALLY enjoy this gin-joint :-D
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:25 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by indy View Post
A naive question for the electro-smart guys in the audience...

Could Star-Lord anchor in a current (say 3-5 knot) and use his rotating propellers to generate electricity via the electric drive motors??? I know it wouldn't be much electricity but maybe equal to a couple of solar panels...???

I have been wondering about this since the Navy began using diesel-electric systems... A ship could anchor in a tidal or river current, let the propellers turn freely, then use the electric drive motors in reverse to generate electricity. Maybe enough for partial 'hotel' power...???

SO... Could this possibly be another source of electricity while Star-Lord is anchored?

OR... Is this a totally clueless, painfully-simplistic idea from an old sailor...?

Good luck on your project Star-Lord and please let us know how things are going...
Back in 1977 I commanded a Navy salvage ship with diesel-electric drive. We had one huge electric propulsion motor in the aft engineering space along with its excitation diesel generator (a Cat D353) and four big honking 16-cylinder D399s (air started, so no big batteries) in the forward engineering compartment. The prop was 14 feet in diameter. Our hotel load was carried by one or two GM 671 Diesel generators to supply 69 men all the comforts of home. We seldom spent any time at anchor; so even if we had the necessary complex technology to backfeed into the system, it would have been minimal compared to the required load and would not have been in anyway cost effective.
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Old 06-21-2019, 07:32 AM   #148
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Interesting concept. Ill be following the build. Post lots of pics
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Old 06-22-2019, 05:39 AM   #149
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How are you making out with the blisters on the hull?
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Old 06-24-2019, 06:24 AM   #150
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I had a friend that wanted to obtain electric from the water floding by the boat while anchored

NYC has 6-7 ft tides so in some anchorages the water moves well.

His solution was a free 100ft fire hose with square flaps of thin ply sewn on. The flaps were the width of the hose when flat and just a bit longer. Their opening angle was limited by a string on each flap .The hose was sewn into a loop after the end fittings were cut off. When trailed the flaps would open with the current and lie flat while going against it.

The power unit was a auto front wheel (no tire) on its spindle mounted on the aft deck.

The hose loop was simply placed in the wheel , and a shopping cart wheel bolted to a car alt rubbed on the wheel edge , sort of like a bicycle light generator of decades ago.

When the tide was flowing well it did produce electric , even though it was a cobble together no buck item.

The problem was folks would drive into the flap chain, and of course tides would drop/reverse and the 50 ft of fire hose would wander.

Perhaps an idea someone could improve upon ?
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Old 07-08-2019, 08:17 AM   #151
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switching to single inboard

The project is still moving forward. I have been working very hard below the waterline to get the boat floated to my dock for the inside electric refit.

I have a more than 80 plate size blisters ground and feathered out that still need to be glassed over. The hull is ground down all the way to bare skin out mat.

Probably next month on the blisters. I am busy doing other things to let them dry out as long as possible.

I also removed the all the running gear for better sealing of the new barrier coat underneath. In the process I realized what sad condition they were in. One of the shaft logs was actually cracked and had been refit at least once before. There are new mounting holes adjacent to the original holes perhaps compromising structure in the hull.

This week I decided to discard the twin screw set up and go to a single shaft run down the center of the keel. I am in the process of designing this new set up. One of the previous posts suggested making the boat a single inboard and now I agree that this may be a good idea. Especially since the boat also has a bow thruster.

I realized that the boat had the waste water holding tank just dumping into the back half of the keel. The back half of the keel had a bulk head and cap to form the tank. There was no separate liner for the tank. The waste water was right up against the hull. Not good.

I removed the make shift holding tank and cleared out the keel yesterday. Very disgustingly nasty job. Now the keel is open for me to install a stern shaft tube.

I am planning to glass in a fiberglass stern tube with cutless bearing instead of using a bronze housing and tube set up. Researching the pro and cons of this idea right now. All opinions and advice is welcomed. My first step is to order the stern tube so I can dry fit it.

Sorry I don't have pictures right now. I will add some later.
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Old 07-08-2019, 08:44 AM   #152
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I did a single engine install and used FG tube glassed directly to the hull penetration. It worked out very well. Had an SS strut fabbed by a local welder. Made bushings out of PVC (on a lathe) that held shaft, strut and tube in exact position while glassing tube to hull. Once all set in place, pulled shaft and installed cutlass bearings, alignment was perfect.
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:22 PM   #153
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Star-Lord, Electric Trawler Conversion

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Originally Posted by Star-Lord View Post
This week I decided to discard the twin screw set up and go to a single shaft run down the center of the keel... Especially since the boat also has a bow thruster.
Most mortals would be afraid to tackle such a major project. I think you made an excellent decision, Quill
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:46 PM   #154
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Most mortals would be afraid to tackle such a major project. I think you made an excellent decision, Quill
Agreed! Intently following and cant wait to see more pics!
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:59 AM   #155
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On our 90/90 I was able to install a stern bearing that contained about 18 rings of packing , that was both bearing and rear packing seal.

A 19x13 Two blade prop makes loads of side force.

Works quite well and we were able to replace the packing on a cruise ,after a decade or so, with no haul out.

At the time the boat was built modern packing was not available so a grease line from under the galley sunk had a cup that required a turn or two to soip drips when in port.

Today with modern packing the grease is no longer required.
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:52 AM   #156
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blister repair

Update on the blister repair with some pictures.

I have located and removed all the delaminated sections I can find. The total count is over 80. I am quite disgusted with this situation but I am going to continue with the experiment.

The delaminated sections are always down to the same depth of fiberglass layer about 1/8" thick. All the sections have been exposed and feathered. Next month I will start laying in two layers of 1708 fiberglass with epoxy resin.

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Old 07-17-2019, 07:20 AM   #157
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That was a major hull construction failure there, an entire thick outer skin layer did not bond well? or is it just bubbles of blisters. I wonder if the rest of the currently bonded areas are going to delaminte too. I have seen hull peelers in action, they strip off entire layers of gelcoat and glass., which might simply be best to strip off the entire failing layer and glass on another new layer?
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:33 AM   #158
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Single Screw Conversion

Unexpectedly I decided to convert from twin inboard props to a single keel mounted propeller.
I may be sacrificing some maneuverability but hopefully gain some efficiency.
Also the running gear was is sad shape and I didn't want to spend the money on new hardware.
The single drive train will also reduce my work load on the electric motor mounting fabrication and electronics once I get to that phase of the project.

This is a picture of the engine bay.
To the left of the picture is towards the back of the boat.
I have already removed both of the diesel engines on either side.
The new electric motor will hang lower in between the bunks down in the hollow keel.
The new shaft will intersect the two cross members which is where I will mount a thrust bearing to accept the shaft flange.
My plan right now is to use the wheel hub bearing from my donor Prius as the coupler for the automotive CV joint and propeller straight shaft.

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Here is a picture of a mock-up of my propeller mounting.
The shaft angle is set to a 2"rise (9.5 degree).
I am thinking a 4 blade 22x18 prop may work for my setup.
I also need to decide how close to mount the rudder.
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Yesterday I drilled a 2.5" hole in the keel to insert my new stern tube.
Hopefully at the correct angle.
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The plug is an inch thick.
I also see signs of the dreaded hydrolysis in the cross section.
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Picture inside the aft part of the keel showing the new hole.
This is where the waste water used to be dumped right up against the raw fiberglass.
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Picture of the stern tube section I bought.
2.5" OD 1/4" thick G10 tube.
I am now contemplating the best way to glass this in.
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:15 AM   #159
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:53 AM   #160
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It's not going to be easy to glass the tube from the inside of the hull. Can do it all from the outside and then install a shelf a couple feet fwd of the keel end and glass tube to that.

Save mounting and glassing tube for after you get the drive motor mounted, that way shaft and tube fitment can be dead on.

You can also extend the tube somewhat aft of the keel, and build up a good bit of glass to fair the deadwood and get prop away from the turbulence.

The last tube I bought had a very precise ID that the bearing pressed into very snug. Hopefully yours is similar.

You will need a remote mounted thrust bearing on fwd end of shaft to avoid thrust loading the Prius tranny.
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