Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-30-2019, 01:53 PM   #101
Guru
 
syjos's Avatar


 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Sandpiper
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,284
I have not done a full research of the diesel/electric conversion since my Lehman keeps chugging along.

I envision charging batteries at a dock, cruising until the batteries are 1/2 depleted and firing up a large generator to replenish the batteries while still cruising. Recharge at the next dock or recharge with generator at anchor.

This is all supposition and some guess work for fun.

I've done some simple weight calculations using lead acid batteries and it may be doable. Removing the large fuel tanks and replacing them with smaller tanks in addition to the weight saving from the engine and transmission should offset the battery bank and larger generator. I have not explored lithium batteries either, new or used, due to the costs but they are coming down in price. And used components from automobiles are becoming available.

Cruising speed could be reduced by 1 to 2 knots to extend range.

I'm not expecting a 100% battery ride but possibly a reduction in fuel usage.
__________________
Advertisement

syjos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2019, 03:25 PM   #102
Guru
 
Fletcher500's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Vessel Model: Helmsman 4304
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,552
There is nothing I can add on the topic, but I have enjoyed following along. An interesting topic. You will get some wonky comments, which are expected on any forum, but sounds like you already know that. Keep us posted as you progress through the process.
__________________

Fletcher500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 07:58 AM   #103
Veteran Member
 
hpogue123's Avatar
 
City: Noank, CT
Vessel Name: Merebeth
Vessel Model: 1987 Jefferson 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
syjos,
Did you see/read the article on PMM about 8 years ago on a Mainship? I have no personal interest in all electric propulsion but Id really like the diesel/electric option. I loved the high and instant torque in the harbors. Also single engine twin screws has some distinct advantages. And I think as a twin engine diesel/electric twin engines of different sizes would offer even more interesting advantages.
With DE (diesel electric) can one use the propulsion batteries for domestic power? Im probably showing my grey hole in electric propulsion but ??
I remember several years ago at the Boston Boat show there was a ~40ft diesel/electric boat that looked great except the cost. Anyone remember the brand?
I was mainly a sailor then so only interested as an engineer. It could run from batteries or direct drive from diesel or diesel to gen. to recharge. Very interesting but big bucks. If I remember correctly, I think it had a 10 mile range on batteries.
hpogue123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 08:11 AM   #104
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpogue123 View Post
I remember several years ago at the Boston Boat show there was a ~40ft diesel/electric boat that looked great except the cost. Anyone remember the brand?
I was mainly a sailor then so only interested as an engineer. It could run from batteries or direct drive from diesel or diesel to gen. to recharge. Very interesting but big bucks. If I remember correctly, I think it had a 10 mile range on batteries.

Not a Greenline?
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 08:26 AM   #105
Veteran Member
 
hpogue123's Avatar
 
City: Noank, CT
Vessel Name: Merebeth
Vessel Model: 1987 Jefferson 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 75
Yeah that's it. Hear anything from any owners?
Attached Thumbnails
Greenline.jpg  
hpogue123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 08:42 AM   #106
Guru
 
City: Satsuma FL
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,308
Have you given any consideration to adding a frame or hard top over the aft cabin and adding additional solar panels?
__________________
Buffalo Bluff Light 28
Donsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 08:56 AM   #107
Veteran Member
 
hpogue123's Avatar
 
City: Noank, CT
Vessel Name: Merebeth
Vessel Model: 1987 Jefferson 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 75
I have 15kw (50 x 300w LG panels) on my house and 1200w on my camper (which adds to the house when I'm not using it). I plan on adding 1800w between the bimini top and sundeck on the boat from remaining panels. Check out pallet the pricing on panels, it really cuts the costs.
hpogue123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 09:58 AM   #108
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpogue123 View Post
Yeah that's it. Hear anything from any owners?
This wasnt the boat I was thinking about on PMM. It was modern like 80s/90s styling. I can dig it up when I have more time. I have a pile of PM magazines but it will take time to find. May have been direct diesel-electric w/o batts involved. Like a diesel/electric locomotive.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 10:51 AM   #109
Veteran Member
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsan View Post
Have you given any consideration to adding a frame or hard top over the aft cabin and adding additional solar panels?
Quick sketch of my solar panel plans.
4 panels aft with 6'6" head room and bench seating.
I want to make this strong enough to hang a dinghy.
9 panels above the saloon. 2 more forward.
Total of 15 panels.
I would love more panels and would love to point them at the sun.

However this simple fixed layout is my working plan right now.
It will change a 100 times and end up were I started I'm sure.

This layout gives me good walk around deck clearance without all the panels too high and top heavy.
I am going to make another helm station with joystick control above the aft cabin shown.
The whole thing needs to fit under an 11' fixed bridge in my neighborhood.
Click image for larger version

Name:	solar panels config1.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	69.1 KB
ID:	89567


Thanks
Jeff
Star-Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 10:52 AM   #110
Veteran Member
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpogue123 View Post
I have 15kw (50 x 300w LG panels) on my house and 1200w on my camper (which adds to the house when I'm not using it). I plan on adding 1800w between the bimini top and sundeck on the boat from remaining panels. Check out pallet the pricing on panels, it really cuts the costs.
very nice
Star-Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 11:09 AM   #111
Veteran Member
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 52
This weekend I uncovered a serious blister and delamination problem with my hull. Right now I am planning to try and fix the situation. However, once I have all of them exposed I may need to rethink this donor boat. I am not happy right now. I don't know how bad it is yet.

I think I got one of the Gulfstars with the poor quality layer bonding.

Name:  blister1.jpg
Views: 299
Size:  39.2 KB
Name:  blister2.jpg
Views: 288
Size:  35.6 KB
Name:  blister3.jpg
Views: 292
Size:  62.1 KB
Star-Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 11:24 AM   #112
Veteran Member
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 52
Here is a picture of the Prius transmission that I have working.
The center shaft is where the internal combustion engine (ICE) would connect in a Prius.

The axle CV joint is lower left and is connected internally to the electric motor with a 4.11:1 gear reduction.
This is where I plan to drive the boat shaft.
I will use the Prius axles via a rigid mounted thrust bearing to the propeller shaft.

The transaxle is all aluminium, liquid cooled and filled with lubricating oil.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Prius Motor.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	68.5 KB
ID:	89571
Star-Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 12:07 PM   #113
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star-Lord View Post
Here is a picture of the Prius transmission that I have working.
The center shaft is where the internal combustion engine (ICE) would connect in a Prius.

The axle CV joint is lower left and is connected internally to the electric motor with a 4.11:1 gear reduction.
This is where I plan to drive the boat shaft.
I will use the Prius axles via a rigid mounted thrust bearing to the propeller shaft.

The transaxle is all aluminium, liquid cooled and filled with lubricating oil.

Attachment 89571

Is the differential part of that same assembly, and if so, how do you lock it? I'm presuming you will only use one of the output shafts, buy maybe not?
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 12:20 PM   #114
Veteran Member
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
Is the differential part of that same assembly, and if so, how do you lock it? I'm presuming you will only use one of the output shafts, buy maybe not?
The differential is inside. I will lock it in place. I have couple of ideas.
The transaxle is not too difficult to open and modify.

I will actually remove all of the heavy internals and just use the light weight shell during my motor mounting fabrication and moch up in the boat.
Star-Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 12:30 PM   #115
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star-Lord View Post
The differential is inside. I will lock it in place. I have couple of ideas.
The transaxle is not too difficult to open and modify.

I will actually remove all of the heavy internals and just use the light weight shell during my motor mounting fabrication and moch up in the boat.



Sounds good.


And speaking of the gear box, is it even necessary? Could you get the desired power with a direct drive from the motor to an appropriately sized prop? Or maybe the gear box is a convenient engine mount?
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 12:39 PM   #116
Veteran Member
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 52
good article.

https://www.agbm.fr/attachment/387917/
Star-Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 12:50 PM   #117
Veteran Member
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
Sounds good.


And speaking of the gear box, is it even necessary? Could you get the desired power with a direct drive from the motor to an appropriately sized prop? Or maybe the gear box is a convenient engine mount?
The gear reduction seems like it might be the perfect ratio needed for maximizing available power of the motor.

The electric motor stator and rotor bearings and all the gear reduction components are all part of the same assembly housing.

You could save weight by removing the gear reduction components and making a direct connection to the motor via the engine center shaft. In this case you would be at 25% of the available torque and spinning the motor very slowly.
Star-Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 01:10 PM   #118
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,183
Make sure the output shaft you use can handle prop thrust load. In a car the axle shafts don't apply much thrust load. Some differential support bearings can take thrust as a component of gear loading probably makes thrust. But you want to check that.

Gear ratio probably in the "ballpark" for what you are doing. And e-motors are not picky with loading and rpm, to a point.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 01:16 PM   #119
Veteran Member
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
Make sure the output shaft you use can handle prop thrust load. In a car the axle shafts don't apply much thrust load. Some differential support bearings can take thrust as a component of gear loading probably makes thrust. But you want to check that.

Gear ratio probably in the "ballpark" for what you are doing. And e-motors are not picky with loading and rpm, to a point.
I am adding an extra rigidly mounted thrust bearing to the propeller shaft mounted to the hull.
No thrust load on the automotive CV joints is expected.
Star-Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 03:29 PM   #120
Guru
 
City: Melbourne, FL
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,685
I happened to see a charter cat conversion video series about a boat named Top Secret where the gentleman had a off-charter boat that needed a complete refit and he chose to go electric instead of traditional diesel propulsion. He goes into the hows, why's and how much and how fast of the result boat.



He chose a Volvo DC genset which would not have been my choice, but has diesel to recharge the batteries (Not an AC genset, but diesel to DC genset.

He used oceanvolt propulsion drives, and said that he actually needs two, not four, but didn't know that at the time. The MFG said 4 and he went with it, but turns out the speed difference is slight, but power draw is double.

I am not sure a prius drive system would be optimum for a boat, since they are on fairly light load most of the time, where a boat is under fairly constant heavy loading.

I liked the open and honest comments of the owner of Top Secret, telling what worked and what didn't and even some unexpected benefits of the conversion.

There was an older sailboat around Merritt Island a few years ago that had two banks of panels mounted from the stub mast and adjusted with electric actuators to allow him to run completely electric, but it wasn't something you'd want to look at for long... effect perhaps, but fugly...
__________________

stubones99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×