Ski in NC
Technical Guru
Never heard of it and I am in the engine business,
Shell Rotella oill
- Thread starter Comodave
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Never heard of it and I am in the engine business,
High Wire
Guru
We used Miles petroleum extensively for years but have had no reason to stay current these past 3-4 years. We typically bought Rotella 15-40 in 32 gallon barrels or in cases of gallons but also bought other fluids as well over time - hydraulic and ATF's.
Whenever we did use them we never had a problem with product or delivery and the prices were always low especially in the volume barrels.
We are on Long Island so delivery was easy and quick to us.
The handbook for your Hino engines is now over 30 years old and oil has changed dramatically since it was written - improved that is. Watching the recommended weight oil vs the use temps are likely your best choices as any major brand will then suite your needs.
P
If you use Costco to buy in volumes the savings can be significant and easily dwarf the 'fee'.
If you do not shop in volumes then any store that does not require extra gas to reach might be the best bet.
Lou_tribal
Guru
For my old venerable I use sae 30w from Canadian Tire, it is store branded Shell Rotella.
In my old manual the engine builder mention sae 30w as a primary choice and 15w40 as a secondary if not available. One thing that surprised me is that the PO used 15w40 and when I got the boat oil pressure was on the high mark and was not varying a lot with rpm. When I switched back to sae 30w oil pressure reading was back to nominal values mentioned in the old manual.
L
In my old manual the engine builder mention sae 30w as a primary choice and 15w40 as a secondary if not available. One thing that surprised me is that the PO used 15w40 and when I got the boat oil pressure was on the high mark and was not varying a lot with rpm. When I switched back to sae 30w oil pressure reading was back to nominal values mentioned in the old manual.
L
Nomad Willy
Guru
What's your theory on that?
What were those "nominal values" mentioned in the book or just what were the differences?
What were those "nominal values" mentioned in the book or just what were the differences?
Lou_tribal
Guru
Well my theory is really inexistant! Nominal values are supposed to be between 30 and 60 psi at normal engine speed, minimum 12 psi at 550rpm. Was the difference due to a clogged oil filter? maybe, maybe not. Was it due to senders, no, I changed both and there were the same before and after, same for gauges. I have really no theory or whatsoever it is just what I observed.
L
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catalinajack
Guru
Yup! Angsting over which oil is better when all meet specs is not worth your time. Anecdotal observations such as "I've used this or that oil for years and have not had a problem" is useless information.
What is unusual here is, the brand name oils like Shell Rotella are not overly expensive so there's no real need to agonize over the price between them and store brands.
Here is a strange one: I once had an Auto Zone store refuse to take my used oil for recycling because it had been used in a diesel engine. I've never figured that one out.
Here is a strange one: I once had an Auto Zone store refuse to take my used oil for recycling because it had been used in a diesel engine. I've never figured that one out.
Hello Eric - likely the manual is very old and was developed at the time when oils were less robust in their design. The manufacturer selects oils they fell will best support their product and then run tests to set nominal values based upon that combination.
As oils improve the resultant oil parameters will also vary as these newer oils are introduced to older engines -not unexpected at all. In many cases when the same engines are available you will see the nominal values altered in newer manuals but that will not exists when engine lines do not continue when newer oils are introduced.
dhays
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That is odd. I normally buy my oil from my local Auto Zone because they take my used oil. I refuse to buy new oil from anywhere that won't take used oil.
The odd part is they refused because it had been used in a diesel engine. What is the difference?
I usually (always) buy my oil from Walmart but for some reason some Walmarts are funny about taking it back. One told me the limit was five quarts.
One time I took my antifreeze to Walmart and the guy dumped it in with the oil. I think it's the employees, not the business.
twistedtree
Guru
Most of the states that I've been in require that any place that sells oil also has to accept used oil.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Used diesel lube oil is undesirable for refining as it's heavily laden w carbon. Notice that your diesel lube oil turns black very quickly. That's carbon. Comparatively speaking gasoline engine lube oils only receive a small amount of carbon. Carbon is an abrasive and is cause for high levels of engine wear. That's why we're told to change our diesel engine oil regularly and often.
The above is what I hear and read.
The above is what I hear and read.
Lou_tribal
Guru
Indeed like the engine, the manual is very old, I was not even born when it was written.
L
FF
Guru
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"The dilemma I find myself in.
My oil in the nta855 is still quite clear yet according to the manual its oil change O'clock."
That's why sending an oil sample to a good lab was invented.
My oil in the nta855 is still quite clear yet according to the manual its oil change O'clock."
That's why sending an oil sample to a good lab was invented.
Ski in NC
Technical Guru
Yep, oil sample can tell you when to change. Engines running at light load might be able to extend the change interval, but there are other contaminants (fuel dilution, moisture content, etc) that may force it earlier. Those contaminants are rarely an issue with an engine in a normal duty cycle, but at light load they might be.
I run my 450 Cummins a mix of 7.7kts/950rpm/1.9gph and 21kts/2000rpm/11gph. Manual says change the oil at 250hrs. A sample taken at 200hrs indicated oil was less than half way through its service life. Based on that I go about 300hrs and sample every few changes. Results remain consistent. It just gives me the willies to go much longer.
I run my 450 Cummins a mix of 7.7kts/950rpm/1.9gph and 21kts/2000rpm/11gph. Manual says change the oil at 250hrs. A sample taken at 200hrs indicated oil was less than half way through its service life. Based on that I go about 300hrs and sample every few changes. Results remain consistent. It just gives me the willies to go much longer.
C lectric
Guru
Oil tests are a good idea.
Like Ski, I used to extend my 200 hr Cummins interval to about 300 hr by using those tests. But I would not have without knowing what the oil was like. Not just the blackening but all the other additives.
THose tests can tell you if acid level is too high, if fuel dilution is a problem, if water is building up which may mean the engine is not run quite hard or long enough enough to drive off condensation and so on.
Acid level is no longer the problem it used to be , at least here, with the ULSD but still not to be ignored.
If you have enough oil in the system, the filters are expensive enough and the actual process of the change is more than just a few minutes then those tests can pay for themselves.
Appearance is not all it's cracked up to be as the clarity could mask a symptom.
Like Ski, I used to extend my 200 hr Cummins interval to about 300 hr by using those tests. But I would not have without knowing what the oil was like. Not just the blackening but all the other additives.
THose tests can tell you if acid level is too high, if fuel dilution is a problem, if water is building up which may mean the engine is not run quite hard or long enough enough to drive off condensation and so on.
Acid level is no longer the problem it used to be , at least here, with the ULSD but still not to be ignored.
If you have enough oil in the system, the filters are expensive enough and the actual process of the change is more than just a few minutes then those tests can pay for themselves.
Appearance is not all it's cracked up to be as the clarity could mask a symptom.
dhays
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I just received my first two sample bottles from Blackstone Labs. With my new engine, I want to start doing oil analysis. I will change the oil shortly (under 100 hours) and send a sample at that time.
Not sure what I will be use as a protocol, but will figure it out as I go. Not sure I will sample between changes, but likely will sample at every change and use that information to inform when I do the next change.
twistedtree
Guru
I think each oil change is a good place to start.
AusCan
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I'm happy using any well known brand oil that meets the specifications for the engine.
I don't see any value in taking oil samples with small diesel engines. The 250 hour recommended change time is well within the limits of the oil, unless the boat sits for extended periods.
Has anyone had a oil sample analysed that came back with bad results?
When I worked for a company that had a large fleet of industrial engines, we sampled every hundred hours after 500 hours. We did this to extend the oil life as long as possible. (From 600 hours which Caterpillar recommended for 3516's to an average of 1100 hours)
This saved the company about 15 million dollars per year in the cost of oil and downtime.
Analyzing oil samples on a recreational boat is interesting, but not worth the cost and effort in my opinion. Just change the oil.
I don't see any value in taking oil samples with small diesel engines. The 250 hour recommended change time is well within the limits of the oil, unless the boat sits for extended periods.
Has anyone had a oil sample analysed that came back with bad results?
When I worked for a company that had a large fleet of industrial engines, we sampled every hundred hours after 500 hours. We did this to extend the oil life as long as possible. (From 600 hours which Caterpillar recommended for 3516's to an average of 1100 hours)
This saved the company about 15 million dollars per year in the cost of oil and downtime.
Analyzing oil samples on a recreational boat is interesting, but not worth the cost and effort in my opinion. Just change the oil.
In a boat no. But I don't have a boat.
In the engines in my truck and tractor, yes. In two cases, I had fuel in the oil that was due to not having enough load on the engines. In the truck, this was due to idling in traffic in place that I called the valley of death due to the traffic jams. Thankfully, I did not have to continue driving that route and the problem went away. I thought I had enough load on the engine but after the fuel showed up in the oil, I just increased the RPM and was good ever after.
In both cases the fuel in the oil was within specification so all was good but who wants fuel in the oil so I made changes to prevent this from happening again.
The truck also had some wear metals that showed up out of nowhere. Again, they were in specification but they were very abnormal for my engine. The next oil change and the wear metals had drastically dropped to almost engine normal and by the second oil change it was normal. My best guess is that the oil I was using had an additive package that was no longer needed due to the use of USLD.
For both engines, I run the oil far past the engine manual. The truck is supposed to be change every 5,000 miles and I do the change at 12,000-14,500. Even at the higher mileage, the oil is still in spec and I am throwing away good oil.
One of the things I have learned with UOA is to make sure the engine is loaded correctly and don't idle too much.
Later,
Dan
psneeld
Guru
Totally disagree about not doing oil analysis.
If on a long cruise, catching oil dilution from fuel or contamination by coolant could be a big heads up. It might start you thinking on how you might alter the cruise to resolve it at your convenience rather than after it progresses to where you have to stop and act.
Maybe that is unrealistic or over conservative, but it is a reason for analysis many never discuss.
And the way people toss money around here, often saying 50 hr oil changes are smart because no engine ever died from clean oil, well than $20 dollar analysis every couple hundred hours is a bargain.
If on a long cruise, catching oil dilution from fuel or contamination by coolant could be a big heads up. It might start you thinking on how you might alter the cruise to resolve it at your convenience rather than after it progresses to where you have to stop and act.
Maybe that is unrealistic or over conservative, but it is a reason for analysis many never discuss.
And the way people toss money around here, often saying 50 hr oil changes are smart because no engine ever died from clean oil, well than $20 dollar analysis every couple hundred hours is a bargain.
