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Old 03-04-2017, 06:30 AM   #21
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I wonder whatever happened to that boat and did it really work
Sure it did, it raised lots of money from those that believed the notion that we were running out of fossil fuels. No matter, TV footage was wonderful and a new cruise line (National Geographic) was born.
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Old 03-04-2017, 08:23 AM   #22
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LOL good one.
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Old 06-21-2022, 12:40 PM   #23
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Now that prices are flying as high as these kites do, any new talk or news on this subject?
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Old 06-21-2022, 01:33 PM   #24
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We had a parasailor which was referred to earlier on prior sailboat. No pole and easy to gybe. I could deploy and retrieve by myself. Major downside was unlike headsails on roller furling limited as to what TWS (true wind speed) you could use it in. So very rarely used it on passage and never at night. Would see exactly the same problem with using a kite on a powerboat with the added problems of deploying and retrieving. Doubt it would be used much. Too much work for short trips. Need to retrieve quickly if not running or far reaching. So not suitable in a coastal setting. Offshore you vey much want to keep it simple stupid and spend as little time as possible on deck.
On the other hand the rotor sails used on ships can tolerate a much wider range of wind speeds so are practical. Issue is they markly raise airdraft and take up valuable deck space. Again both limiting in a coastal setting.
Practical way to increase efficiency is increase space for solar. Can reasonably be done to carry all house loads. Also add prop driven wind generators and most importantly decrease drag and displacement. Believe that’s why there’s the current increased interest in LDL boats. One notes the “cleanest “ boats have been the ultra light trimarans. I seem to recall some have circumnavigated on alt energy alone.
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Old 06-21-2022, 01:46 PM   #25
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Greetings,
From another site: Connecticut’s Department of Revenue Services this week announced a coming tax hike on diesel fuel, resulting in a nine cent increase.

The current tax in the state is 40.1 cents on diesel fuel, but it will increase to 49.2 cents per gallon in about two weeks, beginning July 1.


I think it may only apply to road diesel but is marine far behind?
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Old 06-21-2022, 01:48 PM   #26
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Greetings,
From another site: Connecticut’s Department of Revenue Services this week announced a coming tax hike on diesel fuel, resulting in a nine cent increase.

The current tax in the state is 40.1 cents on diesel fuel, but it will increase to 49.2 cents per gallon in about two weeks, beginning July 1.


I think it may only apply to road diesel but is marine far behind?
Great timing…
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Old 06-21-2022, 02:33 PM   #27
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Why all this talk about electric this and electric that before exploring deeply all the benefits possible w gas and diesel power.

With my Willard going 1/2 a knot slower would likely reduce fuel burn 100%. Boats designed much like sailboats (hull wise) would be much much more efficient. Changes in the engine could also reduce fuel burn.

But even quicker results would result from smaller boats and boats designed specifically for low fuel consumption.

There’s lots of ways to address the problem w/o turning to electric and high tech solutions. And all the high tech time and money is a waste w/o getting the most from what we currently have.
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Old 06-21-2022, 06:14 PM   #28
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I would love it if we can squeeze out more of what we have. Just seems they are starting a narrative of demonizing diesel, can't help but feel like it is an agenda.
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Old 06-21-2022, 06:15 PM   #29
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@ Hippocampus. I do like the idea of adding solar. We filled our 2018 45.5 foot 5th wheel toy hauler with solar and really enjoyed the benefits of being off grid. Looking to do something similar with our next trawler.
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Old 06-22-2022, 09:43 AM   #30
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Or just buy a sailboat to begin with.


The most "environmentally friendly" thing for any boater to do is sell the boat and sit on the banks and watch the other boats go by.


The cause of environmental damage to the planet is humans. Get rid of the humans and it will get along fine.
Exactly, if you really care about the environment, you have to go the Lin and Larry Pardey route. A wooden sailboat with no engine, that they cruised the world on for fifty years.



Most of us don't care that much.
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Old 06-22-2022, 11:41 AM   #31
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The inflatable Omega Sail kite uses a surface of up to 200 sq meters to power a boat up to 5 knots per hour with no motor support.
That's one hell of an acceleration!
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Old 06-22-2022, 11:42 AM   #32
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No doubt the nay-sayers will point out that you can only go down wind. In fact, you can go quite a bit off wind, determined primarily by the underwater profile of your boat.

I can tell you, if stuck in the middle of the ocean with major, non-repairable engine failure, and no wing engine, I would be very happy to have a kite! Who cares which way the wind is blowing, it is bound to be moving you towards land in some direction!
100% agree. George Buehler used to say the same thing... "I'd rather be moving 1 knot downwind, than sitting dead in the ocean" or something like that.
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Old 06-22-2022, 11:17 PM   #33
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Exactly, if you really care about the environment, you have to go the Lin and Larry Pardey route. A wooden sailboat with no engine, that they cruised the world on for fifty years.


Most of us don't care that much.

Most are going way overboard on green stuff. If you want to cruise on a sailboat, go ahead. If you want to cruise on a trawler, go ahead, too. Power boats (All) contribute less than 2% of emissions, and there's arguments that emissions aren't as bad.



Yes, we will eventually eliminate fossil fuels, but not in your kids lifetime... and we have plenty to get us there, and necessary to survive for now. We need to take our time to develop good alternate energy.



For now, the more we kill fossil fuels, the more we suffer.... gas prices, supply issues, transportation, etc.
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Old 06-23-2022, 01:40 AM   #34
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100% agree. George Buehler used to say the same thing... "I'd rather be moving 1 knot downwind, than sitting dead in the ocean" or something like that.
I agree.
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Old 06-23-2022, 07:34 AM   #35
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Seriously, if you can move 1 knot downwind then eventually you’ll hit land or at least get closer to a shipping lane or something.

Lots of people criticizing and laughing at the guys here who propose kite sails for their trawlers. Well I’d bet that a simple kite sail on a 100,000lb trawler will move it along faster than zero mph, especially in a stiff wind.

Not ideal, but better than sitting in a rolling boat crying your eyes out.
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Old 06-23-2022, 11:31 AM   #36
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Post #33 on “cruising green”

Great shout in the dark about reality.
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Old 06-23-2022, 11:49 AM   #37
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Most are going way overboard on green stuff. If you want to cruise on a sailboat, go ahead. If you want to cruise on a trawler, go ahead, too. Power boats (All) contribute less than 2% of emissions, and there's arguments that emissions aren't as bad.



Yes, we will eventually eliminate fossil fuels, but not in your kids lifetime... and we have plenty to get us there, and necessary to survive for now. We need to take our time to develop good alternate energy.



For now, the more we kill fossil fuels, the more we suffer.... gas prices, supply issues, transportation, etc.
I agree. I'm a lot of things, but I'm not a hypocrite. I'm not giving up either of my powerboats, or my truck, or my car, so I don't tell other people what they need to give up.
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Old 06-23-2022, 12:59 PM   #38
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I agree. I'm a lot of things, but I'm not a hypocrite. I'm not giving up either of my powerboats, or my truck, or my car, so I don't tell other people what they need to give up.
As with all things in life, each of us has to reach a balance we're comfortable with. We sometimes feel some guilt over what we spend, but then remind ourselves of those we employ and of what we do for others through charitable giving. We use a lot of diesel on the water, but we've reduced our electric consumption huge amounts over the last few years and more recently have done the same on our gas consumption. Our corporate offices are in one of the most energy efficient buildings there is. As to diesel consumption on the roads, we're participating in programs set up by manufacturers to test alternatives.

The truth in all areas is we could always do more than we're doing today. We're not going to apologize though for not giving everything to charities or stopping all use of fossil fuels.

I guess I think of the billionaires who have pledged 50% to charities when they die and the first thing I heard was those asking why not 100%. Then why not 0%? The point is they've found a balance and it's one that will help millions of people.

I think it's very meaningful that discussions such as this thread are taking place on boating forums. All diesel isn't renounced, but I think talking early will lead to a reduction. Maybe over the next five to ten years. Then will it be 25 years or what when we see it reduced drastically? I have no idea, but there are a lot of people working toward positive goals.

I believe there are areas in which major changes are decades away. Meanwhile we all need to be attentive to what we can do today, without huge sacrifice. In our case, we can use all LED and cut down tremendously on electric usage and for ourselves and others we've converted over 2000 buildings in the last five years. Unfortunately, the makes conversion to solar even less financially beneficial, but we continue to push to make it practical in the states in which we operate, while also developing knowledge. We've gone to all hybrid cars for company cars and employees love them. That will soon be over 100 cars. Will the next replacements be all electric? I hope so, but still has to prove itself in some areas.

One other thing I accept is that there will be some mis-steps. There will be technology that looks great on paper, but turns out not so wonderful in practice. We will see claims that are not real. I love the double counting. Had a solar proposal on one building but they compared to a similarly sized space not yet on LED. In South Florida we have two large electric usages, lighting and air conditioning. Convert to energy efficient air and to LED and the potential for solar savings is greatly reduced. We've already dropped consumption about 75%. Even if solar can reduce it another 50%, now it's only 50% of 25%. We got a solar proposal on our house. Only problem was they used an electric usage per square foot that was 4 times what we use. They also had a power cell to protect for outages, but no knowledge of how few days we've ever been without and the they had no idea how you're limited in bringing such live during an outage.

No one has all the answers, but the great thing is that we are all looking for future answers. That's all anyone can really hope for. We should recognize our accomplishments too. I can tell you as someone involved my adult life in manufacturing, how much cleaner industries are than 50 years ago, how much less they pollute air and water. I think of something as simple as catalytic converters and where our major cities would be today without them. Yes, bicycles would have been better, but people weren't going to make that change. I think we face serious challenges, but I also believe we'll address them one step at a time.
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Old 06-24-2022, 10:25 AM   #39
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Recent history has shown beyond what’s discussed here there’s another strong driver for conversion. That’s the geopolitics of the world. I’m old enough to remember when the Arabs blackmailed the world into 18% inflation, long lines at the gas stations and high unemployment. Now it’s the Russians with China and India keeping them in the black paying for the Ukrainian genocide. Although we are an exporter our economic system leaves us vulnerable to the greed of big oil and non domestic economic forces. Beyond MMCC national security will accelerate the conversion.
Those saying this won’t occur in the lifetime of their children are just plain wrong. The conversion from sail to coal occurred within a generation (20yj. Outliers remained but the majority of naval shipping converted. Similarly the conversion from horse to gasoline. The vulnerabilities that are oil dependent are chiefly agriculture, transportation and electrical generation. At present agriculture is going the wrong way as regards factory farming and the expansion of green house controlled environment farming. But economic forces with the dramatic increase in expenses of fertilizer and energy and decrease in availability of water is shifting new development and even causing reworking of developed fields. Both short haul trucking and long is shifting. The supporting technologies are sufficiently developed. Rail has already for human transportation in large measure and electrification for shipping is occurring in Europe with us to follow. The evolution in personal transportation is actively underway and will continue. I have kids. That generation bought hybrid or fuel efficient the last time and will buy EV the next. At a 10y flip time that’s your 20 years. So yes there will be gasoline and diesel until it ages out but that will occur in a generation.
Even now the economics favors solar panels fields over agriculture in our increasing areas of arid or semi arid areas. As MMCC continues to impact agriculture the appropriate areas for solar electrical generation wil increase. In my region wind generation in the absence of subsidy is economically favorable so in active construction.
At the personal level building a zero footprint house that generates income was logical. I sell to the grid even in winter. As MMCC continues I expect that income to increase. So even now as housing ages out housing demand for oil and gas will fall. The driver here is economic not geopolitical unlike European concerns with Russia. I own a diesel trawler and I and my wife enjoy horses. But I am driven by economic concerns. If my country and politicians accept the inevitability of the need for appropriate infrastructure development to prevent us from energy blackmail we will flourish. Those politicians who are brought and paid for by big coal or oil or gas will continue our vulnerability and cause us to be a second rate power as well as cause our standard of living to decline.
You want to be patriotic American buy as little as possible from China (and India) don’t vote for politicians who support the obscene profits of big oil/gas and don’t support the development of the infrastructure needed to convert. Just wish there was a viable alternative to the current crowd both red and blue.
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Old 06-24-2022, 11:17 AM   #40
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@Hippocampus.


Good article, thanks for sharing.
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