Perkins gen. shuts down after 10 min.

[LeoKa]

Make sure to download the manual for and double check the connections and dip switch settings.

When I called in to order the new controller, the lady was laughing how old my unit was. They have technical support, if I needed any help with the configuration. I also took close pictures of the existing pin layout.

This morning, I ran the Perkins for 2 hours strait. Although, I had to remove the solenoid, so it could start, but there was not any problem with the generator. No overheating, oil pressure in place and most of the time handled the loads gracefully. I went up to ' absorb charge ' with my batteries, so it was not bad.
I am wondering about the controller being the problem for the original issue, which was the Perkins shutting down after 10+ minutes run and it would not start for few hours? Or, it can still be the solenoid?

 

[Simi 60]

Could it be as simple as bad connectors?

I have had similar intermittent ongoing issue for two years, not that much of a problem as I have big solar, but I have traced and checked again an again and now believe its spade connectors in wiring harness.

I can squeeze the connectors tight, problem goes away for a few weeks but comes back so now I am getting rid of the spades and using a wire connecting strip.

Yes, I know there are probably better things to use but its what I have onboard and it'll be more secure than spades.

 

[BIG CAT]

When I called in to order the new controller, the lady was laughing how old my unit was. They have technical support, if I needed any help with the configuration. I also took close pictures of the existing pin layout.

This morning, I ran the Perkins for 2 hours strait. Although, I had to remove the solenoid, so it could start, but there was not any problem with the generator. No overheating, oil pressure in place and most of the time handled the loads gracefully. I went up to ' absorb charge ' with my batteries, so it was not bad.
I am wondering about the controller being the problem for the original issue, which was the Perkins shutting down after 10+ minutes run and it would not start for few hours? Or, it can still be the solenoid?

Lol they are good people and go out of there way to help. They even put on a free ats class for the company I used to work for.

Good to hear it's running normally.

It's definitely a possiblity the controller was having intermittent problems. I have replaced more than a few over the years that had random faults.

 

[BIG CAT]

Could it be as simple as bad connectors?

I have had similar intermittent ongoing issue for two years, not that much of a problem as I have big solar, but I have traced and checked again an again and now believe its spade connectors in wiring harness.

I can squeeze the connectors tight, problem goes away for a few weeks but comes back so now I am getting rid of the spades and using a wire connecting strip.

Yes, I know there are probably better things to use but its what I have onboard and it'll be more secure than spades.

Bad connections are totally possible. But they generally can be found through close visual inspection and other types of tests. One this that I have learned through doing switch gear PM's is just how loose terminal connections can get. I never would have thought a connection would loosen up in a static piece of gear.

 

[LeoKa]

It's definitely a possiblity the controller was having intermittent problems. I have replaced more than a few over the years that had random faults.

It seems that the controller was the bad. This weekend I have finally installed the new one and did a test run. Solenoid in place and just ran it for 20 minutes without load. After, I put the load on to charge the batteries for about 10 minutes, and finally another 10 minutes without load. So, total of 30 minutes, no shut down.
I will run more tests in a week or two, once I am on anchor again. That will be the real test, of course. At this point, I am on shore power.

One thing to mention, while I was running the Perkins on hook. Of course, the controller was not functioning properly, as we know now. However, what was strange that I could not charge up the batteries completely. I ran the Perkins everyday. 1-2 hours in the evening and 1-2 hours in the morning. It reached the ' Bulk Charge ' stage fine, but never the ' Floating Charge ' stage. Of course, it never reached the completely charged position.
I don't know, if this was related to the controller problems?
I was on a trip for 10 days and everything was turned off on board, except the anchor light. I have two banks, so it was enough. The voltage was down to 11.7V on the batteries. I tried to charge them up all week, but I could only bring them to 12.2V I am just curious, if this has anything to do with the controller? I guess, I'll find out in about two weeks, once I return from my second trip.

At least, I don't have to remove the solenoid anymore, to run the Perkins.

 

[Russell Clifton]

Are you charging your batteries with the charger in a inverter? If so I would review the owners manual for it . Calculate how many amps can safely be used according to the total amp hours of the battery bank then see how many amps are now being used to charge them.

I did this and discovered that I wasn't putting in nearly as much as they were capable of accepting. Also, a two hour charge was not long enough to fully charge them if they have gotten below 50% discharged. 11.7 volts is only about 30% charged.

 

[LeoKa]

Are you charging your batteries with the charger in a inverter? If so I would review the owners manual for it . Calculate how many amps can safely be used according to the total amp hours of the battery bank then see how many amps are now being used to charge them.

I did this and discovered that I wasn't putting in nearly as much as they were capable of accepting. Also, a two hour charge was not long enough to fully charge them if they have gotten below 50% discharged. 11.7 volts is only about 30% charged.

Yes, the charge goes through a 2700W inverter. The inverter is a good brand and everything works fine from shore power. Saturday, when I connected to shore power, the batteries were full in 2-3 hours.
Again, I will need to test the alternator more, before I can make the final statement. The generator is a 7.5KW Perkins, so it should charge my banks easily. I think.

 

[High Wire]

Are you sure the inverter/charger is in charge mode with the generator running? 12.2 volts is too low. It should be about 14.5 depending on the settings.
When you say it reaches full charge with shore power in a few hours again says there is something wrong when using the generator. The generator should be the same as shore power.

 

[BIG CAT]

It seems that the controller was the bad. This weekend I have finally installed the new one and did a test run. Solenoid in place and just ran it for 20 minutes without load. After, I put the load on to charge the batteries for about 10 minutes, and finally another 10 minutes without load. So, total of 30 minutes, no shut down.
I will run more tests in a week or two, once I am on anchor again. That will be the real test, of course. At this point, I am on shore power.

One thing to mention, while I was running the Perkins on hook. Of course, the controller was not functioning properly, as we know now. However, what was strange that I could not charge up the batteries completely. I ran the Perkins everyday. 1-2 hours in the evening and 1-2 hours in the morning. It reached the ' Bulk Charge ' stage fine, but never the ' Floating Charge ' stage. Of course, it never reached the completely charged position.
I don't know, if this was related to the controller problems?
I was on a trip for 10 days and everything was turned off on board, except the anchor light. I have two banks, so it was enough. The voltage was down to 11.7V on the batteries. I tried to charge them up all week, but I could only bring them to 12.2V I am just curious, if this has anything to do with the controller? I guess, I'll find out in about two weeks, once I return from my second trip.

At least, I don't have to remove the solenoid anymore, to run the Perkins.

Glad to hear it's back running like it should..



As for the charger issue. It's unlikely that they are related. In my experience with our starting systems. When a charger stays in high rate charge it's due to a bad battery or the charger is faulty.

 

[ben2go]

It seems that the controller was the bad. This weekend I have finally installed the new one and did a test run. Solenoid in place and just ran it for 20 minutes without load. After, I put the load on to charge the batteries for about 10 minutes, and finally another 10 minutes without load. So, total of 30 minutes, no shut down.
I will run more tests in a week or two, once I am on anchor again. That will be the real test, of course. At this point, I am on shore power.

One thing to mention, while I was running the Perkins on hook. Of course, the controller was not functioning properly, as we know now. However, what was strange that I could not charge up the batteries completely. I ran the Perkins everyday. 1-2 hours in the evening and 1-2 hours in the morning. It reached the ' Bulk Charge ' stage fine, but never the ' Floating Charge ' stage. Of course, it never reached the completely charged position.
I don't know, if this was related to the controller problems?
I was on a trip for 10 days and everything was turned off on board, except the anchor light. I have two banks, so it was enough. The voltage was down to 11.7V on the batteries. I tried to charge them up all week, but I could only bring them to 12.2V I am just curious, if this has anything to do with the controller? I guess, I'll find out in about two weeks, once I return from my second trip.

At least, I don't have to remove the solenoid anymore, to run the Perkins.

Good to hear the genny seems to be back in order.



If the batteries are flood lead acid, are they topped up with distilled water and all of the connections clean? I like to start with the basic easy stuff and work forward to the pain in the rear stuff. The easy stuff can be easy to over look when you've been having other major charging troubles. It sucks to beat your head on a problem just to realize it's a bad connection or low electrolyte levels in the battery.

 

[LeoKa]

Are you sure the inverter/charger is in charge mode with the generator running? 12.2 volts is too low. It should be about 14.5 depending on the settings.
When you say it reaches full charge with shore power in a few hours again says there is something wrong when using the generator. The generator should be the same as shore power.

Maybe I was not clear enough. I did not mean to say the the charging was up only to 12.2V The charge goes up higher to 13.5-13.8V with 95-108A from the generator. I suspect, it could higher, if I'd ran it longer. So, there is no problem there. The charger/inverter is doing its job fine from both shore power and generator. I can see the ' bulk charge ' stage and later the ' floating charge ' stage. I could just never reach the complete charge for the banks from the generator, within the same timeframe.
What my concern was that it takes much longer with the generator.

 

[LeoKa]

Good to hear the genny seems to be back in order.
If the batteries are flood lead acid, are they topped up with distilled water and all of the connections clean?

Yes, the batteries are checked and topped weekly. Connections look clean for the most part. I think the photos earlier can show that.

 

[LeoKa]

Also, a two hour charge was not long enough to fully charge them if they have gotten below 50% discharged. 11.7 volts is only about 30% charged.

Yes, 11.7V seemed too low to me, too. I have two banks with total of 840AH and only the anchor light was on, which is a good quality LED.
The batteries are Trojan and only 3 years old.

 

[ben2go]

Could there be a parasitic drain on the batteries keeping them from reaching a full state of charge besides the anchor light?

 

[BIG CAT]

Leoka. Do you have a voltmeter you can check your ac output voltage of the gen vs shore power?

 

[Russell Clifton]

How many amps does your remote for the inverter show are being used when you shut down for the night? I found that the only way I can get it down is to actually shut off the power going to the TV and the satellite because they are still drawing about 3 amps even though they are turned off. Now I only have the frig. drawing on the batteries I they will only go down to about 12.3v over night.

 

[LeoKa]

Leoka. Do you have a voltmeter you can check your ac output voltage of the gen vs shore power?

Yes, I do. I can measure it today.

 

[LeoKa]

How many amps does your remote for the inverter show are being used when you shut down for the night? .

During anchoring time the display showed Zero Amp usage, ' inverting ' only.

When the boat was sitting on the hook, with only the anchor light on (12V), all the breakers were switched off on the panels. Officially, there should have been no inverting going on. I have even unplugged the surge protectors, which have a pilot led for current.
I will check, if the minimum amp setting can be lowered, so every fraction of amps will display. I remember something about this, when I've read the manual.

 

[High Wire]

A difference between shore power and generator charge times could be...
When you plug into shore power, the batteries have just been charged somewhat by the main engine alternators while returning to the dock and therefore need less charging time. When using the genny, there is no charging by the main engines preceding, so more charging time needed to reach full.


Question - With everything off except the anchor light, what runs the refrigerator?


Comment- An LED anchor light draws about 0.1 amp and should last a month or more on any decent battery. The Inverter inverting with no load is still using 1 or 2 amps. Check the manual to see if you can get it into STANDBY or SEARCH mode. That will reduce from about 25 watts to maybe 8 to 10 watts.

 

[LeoKa]

Leoka. Do you have a voltmeter you can check your ac output voltage of the gen vs shore power?

I ran the gen last night, just itself. The voltage was 12.5V at the beginning. 5 minutes later, I put it in charge mode, but it was still 12.5V. I took off the charge after 5 minutes and let it run. I checked again after 10 minutes and the voltage was 13.3V. Before I turned off around 20 minutes run, the voltage was 13.5V on the generator.

The shore power is standard 110V and 30A.

 

[LeoKa]

A difference between shore power and generator charge times could be...
When you plug into shore power, the batteries have just been charged somewhat by the main engine alternators while returning to the dock and therefore need less charging time. When using the genny, there is no charging by the main engines preceding, so more charging time needed to reach full.


Question - With everything off except the anchor light, what runs the refrigerator?


Comment- An LED anchor light draws about 0.1 amp and should last a month or more on any decent battery. The Inverter inverting with no load is still using 1 or 2 amps. Check the manual to see if you can get it into STANDBY or SEARCH mode. That will reduce from about 25 watts to maybe 8 to 10 watts.

That's the funny thing. This boat is wired not to charge the batteries from alternator. At least, not the banks. The main engine's alternator only charges the starting batteries. I have two of those.
If I want to charge the two banks I have, I must run the generator, or use shore power. The PO explanation was that the boat has been upgraded to 50A shore power and the electrician wired things this way. No reason was given why the alternator cannot charge the banks, as well?

On anchor, there was nothing on. No fridge, no lights, nothing. Only the anchor light. I was away on a trip, so I turned everything off.
Based on the calculations I have seen from older notes, the fridge would consume the batteries within a day. So, unless the generator is running for few hours everyday, the fridge cannot be turned on.
This is why I plan to install a serious solar charging system. Until that is in place, I cannot be completely off-grid and anchor out for long term. Things are still developing and the priorities are changing.

I will check the manual for the inverter to see about your suggestion. I want to reduce the consumption to the minimum, while the boat is sitting on anchor, without anyone on board.

 

[LeoKa]

A difference between shore power and generator charge times could be....

This morning, I put the boat on anchor again.
The batteries were completely charged from shore power. I ran the generator for a while and turned on the charging on it. It showed immediately ' Float Charge ' on the control display.
After the anchor was set, I turned off everything except the anchor light. The display showed 13.2V and 0A usage. I also turned off the inverter, since nothing needs to be run for a week, while I am on a trip.
Let's see, if the batteries will be depleted this time, again?

 

[High Wire]

This morning, I put the boat on anchor again.
The batteries were completely charged from shore power. I ran the generator for a while and turned on the charging on it. It showed immediately ' Float Charge ' on the control display.
After the anchor was set, I turned off everything except the anchor light. The display showed 13.2V and 0A usage. I also turned off the inverter, since nothing needs to be run for a week, while I am on a trip.
Let's see, if the batteries will be depleted this time, again?

Whet you say you run the generator and turn the charging on, what exactly are you turning on?
Also where are you reading the 12.5 volts? The generator gauge panel, the inverter, or somewhere else?

 

[LeoKa]

Whet you say you run the generator and turn the charging on, what exactly are you turning on?

I can charge from shore power, or from the generator. I have a switch on the breaker panel to choose the charging source. I started charging from the generator, before I disconnected the shore power, this morning.
I let the generator run and charge until I finished anchoring and shut everything down.

 

[Russell Clifton]

This has gotten a little confusing. I don't believe your generator actually has a battery charger in it. What is happening is the generator is furnishing power to some other device that is now charging the batteries, either a stand alone battery charger or more likely the charger built into the inverter. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[LeoKa]

the inverter. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are not wrong. I should have said ' inverter/charger ' is turned off.

 

[High Wire]

I can charge from shore power, or from the generator. I have a switch on the breaker panel to choose the charging source. I started charging from the generator, before I disconnected the shore power, this morning.
I let the generator run and charge until I finished anchoring and shut everything down.

That is an unusual arrangement.

Just to be clear, this switch changes the AC power source TO the inverter/charger?

Its not switching between the Generators engine alternator output and the Inverter/charger output, right?

 

[LeoKa]

That is an unusual arrangement.
Just to be clear, this switch changes the AC power source TO the inverter/charger?

Correct.
See pictures

 

[High Wire]

The 3rd circuit breaker up from the bottom of the shore/genset panel that says "battery charger". Is that what you turn on to charge with the genny? To me that looks like power to a separate charger other than the Magnum.

Question- How is your inverter input AC tied to shore power?
A- Shore>Inverter>Transfer switch?
B-Shore>Transfer switch>Inverter?

 

[koliver]

Correct.
See pictures

In my Motorhome I have the same Magnum Charger/Inverter.

You have 3 panels in your first picture. The one on the right allows you to select input power from either genset or shore power. That selection, if either source is available, then goes to the other panels for distribution to the boat. Your handwritten labels "via inverter" suggest that every circuit on the two distribution panels is available either on shore power, genset power or Inverter (battery) power.

IOW, if genset or shore power are not available, the distribution panels will look to the Inverter for AC power, if it is enabled by turning on the Inverter at the Magnum panel, shown in the third photo. Without that selection being made, none of the AC loads will operate unless your genset or shore power are providing AC. If you leave the Inverter turned on at all times, your connected loads will not know which AC source, genset, Shore, Inverter, is supplying that power.

If (when) there is a failure of the Shore power supply, the Inverterr will automatically and seamlessly supply the missing power from the batteries, until they have been depleted, or the genset comes on (with Auto Gen Start this will be the first notice you get of the failure of shore power). Without AGS the Inverter will continue to use the batteries for AC until they can no longer supply. But I digress.

The Magnum panel allows you to turn the Charger on manually, when either Shore power or Genset power are available, and allows you to turn the Inverter on or off at any time, regardless of the presence or absence of an AC supply.

In my case, having seen my batteries depleted by the Inverter being left on while there was shore power available and thus used automatically when that source of power failed, I leave the Inverter function off unless I need it.

While charging, the Magnum panel is very useful to inform you of the state of charge, as it reports whether the charging is in Bulk, Absorption or Float, and the amperage being accepted at the batteries.